John from Riverside Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, simpleman said: I still don't think Cousins is the franchise solution for the Bills. I don't see him even worth the guaranteed money that Smith got. I want a bridge QB and a true franchise QB. I want to grow our own QB. Please Buffalo, do not make an even worse move than Washington just did. I liked Smith, but not at that ridiculous contract. I do not see Cousins as > Smith. Give me one of the Minny QBs at a more reasonable price. I think depending on price, that Bradford is now my new favorite for a bridge QB. I am really not against one of the Minny QBs....but I think Cousins is def a better player then Alex Smith.....and younger.
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Virgil said: This isn't specifically about Alex Smith, moreso the entire NFL offseason and how this one move really set the table for a lot other moves. Also, we are starting to see moves that you typically only see in the MLB. The value of the QB is as high as we've ever seen it. Let's just say that Smith is a 10-15 rated QB, which is generous in my opinion. For him to net that much guaranteed money is crazy to me. Getting 23 mil a year for his performance is going to reset the entire QB market, moreso than Carr and Stafford. From that, I think we will see: Cousins may get the first fully guaranteed contract in NFL History Cousins may get 30 mil a year If McCaron's hit the market, I think he will eclipse the crazy contract that Osweiler got. Trading the rights of players could become a thing The Chiefs were cash strapped and if it weren't such a high demand position, Smith could easily have been cut or asked to renegotiate. In recent years, most other teams would have just waited for that to happen. Not only was he not cut, but he was traded for a really high value just for the rights to him. It also happened with Garropolo. Maybe there's more of a precedent for this that I'm not thinking of, but it feels more like the baseball All-Star trading deadline where teams are getting players with limited contracts left in hopes to get a leg up on negotiating rights or use of the franchise tag. While we all have mixed opinions on Tyrod, I think most would agree he would be a solid backup and an improvement for some teams as a starter. I still don't understand the cap restrictions with trading him because of his option, but I think there would be a market for him as well. If Smith got a 3rd and a player, we could possibly get a 4th for TT. Whether that would be worth it because of the cap hit, I don't know. The Browns aren't sold on the rookie QB class The reports said that 6 teams were interested in Smith, but only the Browns and Redskins were working on a trade. Since the Smith contract extension was announced so quickly, it has to be assumed that the extension was a prerequisite of the trade. Assuming more, the Browns knew that Smith wanted and extension with the trade and were in on that. TO ME, that would indicate that they were better with Smith as their starter for the next 4-5 years than using either of their top 4 picks on a QB. Yes, it's the Browns, but still interesting to me. It also shows that they are officially looking for a QB upgrade, which some did think they might try to go with what they had. Of the teams needing QB's, we have the 2nd most cap space If we do want Cousins, we are in good shape to go after him from a total cap perspective. The Broncos would have to cut and they have some expiring contracts. However, I believe we have the most expiring contracts of any team, so we will need some cap. If Glenn checks out as healthy, I could see him traded since McDermott has his love affair with Dawkins. But, I again don't know the cap hit of that trade. The number of teams needing a QB dropped by 1 and I think other teams are better off than they would want you to think. Browns (Picks 1 and 4) - Will take a QB Giants - (Pick 2) - Has a lot of holes and say they want to stick with Eli - Trade Back Partner #1 Colts - Pick 3 - I don't think McDaniels takes that job unless he knows Luck is good to go - Trade Back Partner #2 Broncos - Pick 5 - Need a QB and could trade up to make sure no one jumps them (Could also make cap space and go after Cousins) Jets - Pick 6 - Need a QB and could trade up to make sure no one jumps them (Definitely has cap space for Cousins) Picks 7-14 all have QB's and only the Cardinals at 15 could use a QB. With all of that, Cousins has to go somewhere, which leaves 3 teams ahead of us that need a QB. As it stands, if Allen is taken by one of them, that would leave us with Darnold, Mayfield, or Rosen as the leftover, which I'm sure most of us would be fine with. The most important thing I've learned from last night is that this offseason is going to be a lot of fun and I'm glad I have this place to talk it out with people I learned they overpay for everything from an owner who thinks he can just buy anything he wants. You have a younger, better version of Alex Smith in Cousins, I would have just paid him the money. Now they give up a 3rd, a solidcorner for a 33 year old stop gap QB who will never get them a SB ring, oh and they saturate the market for the QB position, it was always a high market but they just set the bar even higher, 71M guaranteed? Are they nucking futs? Just an idiotic move by a clueless organization imo. Edited January 31, 2018 by BuffaloBillsGospel
BillsFan130 Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, KelsaysLunchbox said: There's more to it than that I think, but it's still a valid point. The Redskins FO has caught a ton of heat over the last 2 off-seasons for not locking Cousins up. But now they have a comparable player under a smaller contract then Cousins was reported to want and gave up peanuts to get him. A decent slot corner and a 3rd. And they could very well end up with a 3rd round comp pick for letting Cousins walk...right? I’m not too sure about the comp pick. And ya, I personally think it’s s good move by the Redskins, to your point . I really don’t think there’s much of a difference between them and like you said, they got Smith wayyyy cheaper
whatdrought Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 Hey all- long time reader, first time poster. I think something that is being forgotten in all of this is that the only reason Cousins market value is so high is because the Redskins drove it up by franchising him two years in a row. It's been widely reported that Cousins was willing to take a team friendly deal two years ago but Snyder and the other idiots in D.C. mismanaged the situation and instead drove his price through the roof. Cousins will get paid like crazy (more probably than he deserves), but a big reason why is because Washington screwed up. Now they're trying to save face by importing an equal talent (whose older) and pretending like this is a forward thinking move. 3
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 55 minutes ago, Doc said: That ontogeny really doesn't recapitulate phylogeny. It's a long way, from amphioxus, it's a long way to us It's a long way, from amphioxus, to the meanest human cuss Protect the Notochord!
Kirby Jackson Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 31 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: There is no way I would pony up that type of money, unless the annual amount remained around $25m per year or so. Yeah, it feels absurd. They are saying 5 years, $150M and $90M guaranteed for Cousins!! I thought that we would see a middle class of QBs develop with all of these teams regretting the big money deals to guys like Flacco, Tannehill, Etc... Apparently that isn’t happening and the next pretty good starter to hit the market instantly becomes one of the highest paid players in league history. I couldn’t imagine paying that for him.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 55 minutes ago, The Wiz said: I've changed my mind. I like .gifs now 1
cba fan Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: (Edited your post to focus on the most interesting point) It is interesting news to me that the Browns were working on a trade and contract extension for Smith. Unless you have more gouge on what they offered, not sure it means they thought they'd be better for 4 years with Smith. Maybe they offered more of a bridge contract with possibly higher per year, but less guaranteed and an "out" after 2 years to allow them to dump him in favor of an emerging starter. Kind of what I thought the Redskins had done until the contract details emerged Good thinking about Browns. Other thing is since they had such mega cap surplus they could have signed Smith for a good deal like Skins did, eat sign bonus later if/when they decide he needs to be traded. So instead of an option out or cut, they trade Smith in future turning a cut into a trade for assets. Browns may have pulled out due to what looks like a serious overpay for A Smith's talents be Washington.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 I learned that three separate times in his career, Alex Smith has lost his job because his coaches wanted a new guy, including Jim Harbaugh and Andy Reid, and somehow Smith parlayed that into 71 million dollar guarantee. Ain't that 'Murica. 2
The Wiz Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I've changed my mind. I like .gifs now Glad to be of service. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Hey all- long time reader, first time poster. I think something that is being forgotten in all of this is that the only reason Cousins market value is so high is because the Redskins drove it up by franchising him two years in a row. It's been widely reported that Cousins was willing to take a team friendly deal two years ago but Snyder and the other idiots in D.C. mismanaged the situation and instead drove his price through the roof. Cousins will get paid like crazy (more probably than he deserves), but a big reason why is because Washington screwed up. Now they're trying to save face by importing an equal talent (whose older) and pretending like this is a forward thinking move. Good first post! Post more! You make a very valid point. Washington is suffering from a self-inflicted wound. I'm unsure that Cousins and Smith are equal talents. Cousins is coming off 3 years >4000 yds and >25 TD. Smith had a career year last year, >4000 yds and >25 TD for the first time, with Hill, Kelce, and Hunt ( I think >> Crowder, Davis, and Thompson) At best, one has to say that Cousins has demonstrated he can play at a high level for a longer time. At worst, Smith could regress towards his career mean sort of like...well, sort of like a Bills QB who got signed to a sweet deal after half a great season. Hopefully not to that degree. We'll see. Edited January 31, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
BillsVet Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 I've learned that it's not even February and some are already overanalyzing the heck out of this off-season.
Cash Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Yeah, it feels absurd. They are saying 5 years, $150M and $90M guaranteed for Cousins!! I thought that we would see a middle class of QBs develop with all of these teams regretting the big money deals to guys like Flacco, Tannehill, Etc... Apparently that isn’t happening and the next pretty good starter to hit the market instantly becomes one of the highest paid players in league history. I couldn’t imagine paying that for him. All of these teams overpaying for top 15 (but not top 5) QBs will eventually regret it. I don't agree with this whole "you have a QB or you have nothing" mentality that's so pervasive these days. I'd rather have a bad-but-not-horrendous QB at a cheap price (Josh McCown?) than a good-but-not-great QB at an expensive price (Smith? Cousins? Flacco? Stafford?). Basically, I either want a guy so good he can drag a bunch of stiffs to the Super Bowl (i.e., Aaron Rodgers, prime Peyton Manning, etc.), or a guy who comes cheap enough to build a Super Bowl contender around him. If there was a real QB middle class, where you could sign a guy like Flacco or Dalton for like $14 million/year, then I'd be up for that as well, but that doesn't really exist right now. 3
Big Turk Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) Fans who only read stats and dont understand football on anything more than a casual level value Cousins far more than most people who do know football and run many of the teams... But I already knew this and had been saying the same stuff for at least 3 or 4 months now... Edited January 31, 2018 by matter2003
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Fans who only read stats and dont understand football on anything more than a casual level value Cousins far more than most people who do know football and run many of the teams... But I already knew this and had been saying the same stuff for at least 3 or 4 months now... Er well that remains to be seen, now, dunnit? All you can say is we value Cousins more than the Redskins did. Bring on March 14...we shall see
Big Turk Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Er well that remains to be seen, now, dunnit? All you can say is we value Cousins more than the Redskins did. Bring on March 14...we shall see Every GM and coach think they can fix whatever problems a player has...I should have specified the Redskins...he will play whatever team against anyone else, even if its only them to pretty much guarantee one of rhe biggest QB salaries... Pretty crazy to think he will likely have made more money than any QB in NFL history in the past 3 years with the guaranteeed money he will get. Nowhere close to being the best QB Edited January 31, 2018 by matter2003
Freddie's Dead Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) I learned that the Bills can sign Captain Kirk to the Starship Onebillsdrive. My dream from the 2012 draft will finally be realized! Edited January 31, 2018 by Freddie's Dead
Kirby Jackson Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, Cash said: All of these teams overpaying for top 15 (but not top 5) QBs will eventually regret it. I don't agree with this whole "you have a QB or you have nothing" mentality that's so pervasive these days. I'd rather have a bad-but-not-horrendous QB at a cheap price (Josh McCown?) than a good-but-not-great QB at an expensive price (Smith? Cousins? Flacco? Stafford?). Basically, I either want a guy so good he can drag a bunch of stiffs to the Super Bowl (i.e., Aaron Rodgers, prime Peyton Manning, etc.), or a guy who comes cheap enough to build a Super Bowl contender around him. If there was a real QB middle class, where you could sign a guy like Flacco or Dalton for like $14 million/year, then I'd be up for that as well, but that doesn't really exist right now. Really well said!! This is an excellent post.
whatdrought Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Good first post! Post more! You make a very valid point. Washington is suffering from a self-inflicted wound. I'm unsure that Cousins and Smith are equal talents. Cousins is coming off 3 years >4000 yds and >25 TD. Smith had a career year last year, >4000 yds and >25 TD for the first time, with Hill, Kelce, and Hunt ( I think >> Crowder, Davis, and Thompson) At best, one has to say that Cousins has demonstrated he can play at a high level for a longer time. At worst, Smith could regress towards his career mean sort of like...well, sort of like a Bills QB who got signed to a sweet deal after half a great season. Hopefully not to that degree. We'll see. I agree. I think that the argument could be there that you could reasonably expect similar things out of these two but I see that as Cousins middle ground, and Smith's ceiling. I think Cousin's potential has him worth significantly more than Smith even before you factor in age. That being said, I struggle to see Cousins being the highest paid player in the league, but again, that will happen because Washington made the decisions that they made. This trade is a pride move by Snyder. He didn't wan't to pay Cousins because he didn't want to admit that he was wrong about RG3, and now he wants to pretend that he can replace him easily and act like Cousins was never that good. Not going to happen. I expect Cousins to perform very well wherever he goes. 1
DCOrange Posted January 31, 2018 Posted January 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said: I'm wondering why the NFL doesn't have a max player salary ceiling. Doesn't the NBA have this? NFLPA would probably never get on board with limiting how much their stars are paid.
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