Horowitz's DOJ IG Report

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

since

 

key word there. as we're learning today, the whole thing was kicked off under fraudulent circumstances, and now it's grown into something completely unrelated to what it's supposed to be.

 

there needs to be payback for that. and harsh payback at that.

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

23 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Collusion in and of itself is not against the law and I said that a year ago. 

 

As for when Mueller began, colluding with Russia was just one plank of the investigation.

 

Actually, on this Joe is 100% accurate.

 

It was the entire foundation of the investigation.  The fact that Mueller went on a fishing expedition and found other crimes unrelated to the President or to Russian "collusion" don't change that.

 

You can't on one hand insist we're a nation of laws, and on the other hand support what Robert Mueller has been doing, which is an absolute perversion of the law.

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

key word there. as we're learning today, the whole thing was kicked off under fraudulent circumstances, and now it's grown into something completely unrelated to what it's supposed to be.

 

there needs to be payback for that. and harsh payback at that.

 

I understand your anger given your political leanings, but I’ll have to wait and see what the next phase of the IG report brings. Emails and texts from FBI agents hating on Trump are a very bad optic for sure. But FBI agents or anyone else in public service aren’t precluded from having their own political views. What’s important to me is if those agents were SO motivated by their biases against Trump to act, what ACTIONS did they COMMIT and what DAMAGE to Trump was inflicted. The IG report doesn’t indicate that at this point. There will be other investigations and if it’s proved that FBI agents broke any actual laws you’re right, they should be dealt with to the fullest extent. 

 

Until then, the IG report says whatever people want it to say. But it’s important to remember that as of now, it doesn’t say anyone broke any laws. 

[3rdnlng]

3 hours ago, peace out said:

Before the right-wing ejaculate here has even dried we get a fuller read on the texts...

 

 

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

20 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

key word there. as we're learning today, the whole thing was kicked off under fraudulent circumstances, and now it's grown into something completely unrelated to what it's supposed to be.

 

there needs to be payback for that. and harsh payback at that.

 

 

No, Joe.  There doesn't need to be payback.  This isn't a Mel Gibson movie.

 

 

Either we are governed by the rule of law, or we are not.  If we are not, as you seem to prefer, then everything the Obama Administration, their subordinate agencies, the Clinton Campaign and Foundation, and the DNC has done is completely acceptable, because the law doesn't matter. 

 

If the law does matter, then the law needs to be followed in their prosecution, if, and only if, laws were broken, and only for people who actually broke the law.

Edited June 14, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[3rdnlng]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-receiving-briefing-ahead-of-public-release-of-report-expected-to-criticize-fbi/2018/06/14/c08c6a5a-6fdf-11e8-bf86-a2351b5ece99_story.html?utm_term=.6432eb30f550

Officer, I didn't intend to drive 65mph in a school zone.

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Actually, on this Joe is 100% accurate.

 

It was the entire foundation of the investigation.  The fact that Mueller went on a fishing expedition and found other crimes unrelated to the President or to Russian "collusion" don't change that.

 

You can't on one hand insist we're a nation of laws, and on the other hand support what Robert Mueller has been doing, which is an absolute perversion of the law.

Read Rosenstein’s letter of appointment and you’ll clearly see Mueller has the authority to investigate any matters they may arise during the investigation as well as other matters within the scope of his mandate. It’s also worth noting that he was specifically charged with investigating “Russian interference with the 2016 Presidential Campaign and other matters.” Nowhere does it say he is limited to investigating “collusion.” 

 

Look, this is a thread for the IG report released toda and everything I’ve said about Mueller’s scope of authority, I’ve said a year ago in that thread. 

[TakeYouToTasker]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Read Rosenstein’s letter of appointment and you’ll clearly see Mueller has the authority to investigate any matters they may arise during the investigation as well as other matters within the scope of his mandate. It’s also worth noting that he was specifically charged with investigating “Russian interference with the 2016 Presidential Campaign and other matters.” Nowhere does it say he is limited to investigating “collusion.” 

 

Look, this is a thread for the IG report released toda and everything I’ve said about Mueller’s scope of authority, I’ve said a year ago in that thread. 

 

Rod Rosenstein is up to his eyeballs in this.  And again, this was nothing more than a chartered fishing expedition purposed to bring down the sitting President. 

 

You cannot cling to "nation of laws" and defend the investigation.

[Prickly Pete]

As nice as it would be to see these people go down, I don't think it will change the anyone's views on Trump or Hillary, or Obama.

 

Everything I have seen, basically says they were motivated by the fear that Trump was such an !@#$. That's what all the people on the Left were afraid of too, so I actually think most will identify with these corrupt agents. It's probably what any pink hat wearing protester thinks they would have done.

 

I mean, when you are saving the world from Hitler, you might have to break a few rules.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by OJABBA

[Deranged Rhino]

The classification does not matter... This footnote is a BIG problem for 44. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Read Rosenstein’s letter of appointment and you’ll clearly see Mueller has the authority to investigate any matters they may arise during the investigation as well as other matters within the scope of his mandate.

 

(not to side track but:) The full, unredacted memo has never been released to the public. Which is part of the problem... no one knows for sure what his scope is because it's classified. The letter released below is passed off as the totality of the framework given to Mueller but it's not. There's a memo that we have not been able to see written after this date. With everything we are learning about RR over the past year of discovery - that's problematic to a nation of laws. 

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

 

 

[DC Tom]

21 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Read Rosenstein’s letter of appointment and you’ll clearly see Mueller has the authority to investigate any matters they may arise during the investigation as well as other matters within the scope of his mandate. It’s also worth noting that he was specifically charged with investigating “Russian interference with the 2016 Presidential Campaign and other matters.” Nowhere does it say he is limited to investigating “collusion.” 

 

Look, this is a thread for the IG report released toda and everything I’ve said about Mueller’s scope of authority, I’ve said a year ago in that thread. 

 

Mueller may have the authority, but that doesn't make that broad a mandate right.  

 

Frankly, it makes the mandate "Find something.  Anything."  Because what can't fall under the rubric of "that may arise during the investigation?"  Ask Bill Clinton how that works out.

[TakeYouToTasker]

7 minutes ago, OJABBA said:

As nice as it would be to see these people go down, I don't think it will change the anyone's views on Trump or Hillary, or Obama.

 

Everything I have seen, basically says they were motivated by the fear that Trump was such an !@#$. That's what all the people on the Left were afraid of too, so I actually think most will identify with these corrupt agents. It's probably what any pink hat wearing protester thinks they would have done.

 

I mean, when you are saving the world from Hitler, you might have to break a few rules.

 

 

 

That's not what motivated them.

 

What motivated them was the fact that they knew that he knew where all of the skeletons were buried, and that he would seek to dig them up and expose them to the light for the world to see.

 

That's where the real shock to the system is going to come from.  The fact that the Obama Administration, it's subordinate agencies, the Clinton Campaign and Foundation, and the DNC attempted to rig a federal election, and then orchestrate a coup attempt is shockingly terrible, but it's not nearly as shockingly terrible as why they did what they did.

 

Very few people would willingly place their head into a noose simply because they disagree with policy decisions.  That's what elections are for, and the peaceful transition of power affords them the opportunity to hold High Office in just four short years.

 

Treason is reserved for covering up something much worse than the treason itself.

[K-9]

17 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Rod Rosenstein is up to his eyeballs in this.  And again, this was nothing more than a chartered fishing expedition purposed to bring down the sitting President. 

 

You cannot cling to "nation of laws" and defend the investigation.

That may be true about Rosenstein,  but the scope of Mueller’s mandate is clear and legal. Until it’s adjudicated differently, Mueller is not breaking any law. So yeah, I can cling to my belief with a clear conscience for now.

[DC Tom]

Just now, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

That's not what motivated them.

 

What motivated them was the fact that they knew that he knew where all of the skeletons were buried, and that he would seek to dig them up and expose them to the light for the world to see.

 

That's where the real shock to the system is going to come from.  The fact that the Obama Administration, it's subordinate agencies, the Clinton Campaign and Foundation, and the DNC attempted to rig a federal election, and then orchestrate a coup attempt is shockingly terrible, but it's not nearly as shockingly terrible as why they did what they did.

 

Very few people would willingly place their head into a noose simply because they disagree with policy decisions.  That's what elections are for, and the peaceful transition of power affords them the opportunity to hold High Office in just four short years.

 

Treason is reserved for covering up something much worse than the treason itself.

 

I disagree.  In large part because of my daily experience with such people, and my understanding of the power wielded by the German civil service in Weimar.  I really do think the majority of them thought they were fighting a Nazi takeover of the government - and more, that they had been through the Obama Administration.

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

That may be true about Rosenstein,  but the scope of Mueller’s mandate is clear and legal. Until it’s adjudicated differently, Mueller is not breaking any law. So yeah, I can cling to my belief with a clear conscience for now.

 

We do not know that for sure, as the full scope of his mandate is still classified.

[Prickly Pete]

Just now, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

That's not what motivated them.

 

What motivated them was the fact that they knew that he knew where all of the skeletons were buried, and that he would seek to dig them up and expose them to the light for the world to see.

 

That's where the real shock to the system is going to come from.  The fact that the Obama Administration, it's subordinate agencies, the Clinton Campaign and Foundation, and the DNC attempted to rig a federal election, and then orchestrate a coup attempt is shockingly terrible, but it's not nearly as shockingly terrible as why they did what they did.

 

Very few people would willingly place their head into a noose simply because they disagree with policy decisions.  That's what elections are for, and the peaceful transition of power affords them the opportunity to hold High Office in just four short years.

 

Treason is reserved for covering up something much worse than the treason itself.

 

 

Yeah, that's what I think, too. But it's never alluded to in any of the texts, or outright. The people that want to support these actions, can rationalize their actions. 

 

Until something like Human Trafficking, deals with drug cartels, etc., is uncovered, this won't have much effect.

[K-9]

16 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

The classification does not matter... This footnote is a BIG problem for 44. 

 

 

 

(not to side track but:) The full, unredacted memo has never been released to the public. Which is part of the problem... no one knows for sure what his scope is because it's classified. The letter released below is passed off as the totality of the framework given to Mueller but it's not. There's a memo that we have not been able to see written after this date. With everything we are learning about RR over the past year of discovery - that's problematic to a nation of laws. 

 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

 

 

Yeah, not to sidetrack indeed. The letter is clear and until I see otherwise, that’s what I’ll take as his scope. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, K-9 said:

Yeah, not to sidetrack indeed. The letter is clear and until I see otherwise, that’s what I’ll take as his scope. 

 

You're aware the memo is real though, right? That's not speculation, it's legit. Courts have been trying to compel Mueller to turn it over and he has so far refused. The memo is directly related to his scope and the start of the investigation. 

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Mueller may have the authority, but that doesn't make that broad a mandate right.  

 

Frankly, it makes the mandate "Find something.  Anything."  Because what can't fall under the rubric of "that may arise during the investigation?"  Ask Bill Clinton how that works out.

Then change the mandate. I said a year ago this will start at A and end at Z because of the scope implied. If people don’t like that, they need to change it. Legally. 

[TakeYouToTasker]

2 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

I disagree.  In large part because of my daily experience with such people, and my understanding of the power wielded by the German civil service in Weimar.  I really do think the majority of them thought they were fighting a Nazi takeover of the government - and more, that they had been through the Obama Administration.

 

You believe that the Clintons and President Obama, the DNC, and the heads of their subordinate agencies thought they were fighting a Nazi takeover of government which is why they rigged the Democratic primary against Bernie Sanders, and spied on the campaign of Jeb Bush?