Bills still making Bad Contract decisions

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

4.8 Million guaranteed for INJ. He is INJ he gets it. 

 

4.3 bonus was already Paid at signing. So he already has that for these purposes it is just lowering cap hit accounting. Hence the 8+ in dead money

 

I got all that.  What I'm saying is that he has an injury which gets him salary for 2018, but it's also the reason he's retiring.  Yet he gets to keep his unamortized SB.  Seems like double-dipping to me. 

 

Then again, maybe that's the way contracts are being done now?  In which case you can't fault the Bills for the contract.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Doc

[GG]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And accelerate 10M in dead Money

 

by waiting to June 1 dead this year is 8M. 

 

It is very cut ans dry unless Bills want to fight and say he hid this injury from them when signing the extension 

 

 

here would be the Dead Cap if he announced he is retired Today

 

Spotrac (@spotrac)

1/26/18, 12:38 PM Assuming Eric Wood’s unfortunate neck injury stems from football (likely), the #Bills will also be on the hook for his $4.8M 2018 salary, raising the total dead cap hit to $10,391,668.

 

That's the cap hit for the 2018 season.   The dead cap hit now is $14 million, that's why he needs to stay on the roster.  But it also highlights the risk they took by guaranteeing the '18 salary for injury.   

[Batman1876]

Injury guarantees are common unless your injury history includes things that are likely to reoccur. Eric’s injuries did not fit into that category. A broken leg is not reoccurring it heals and goes away. His knee injuries were not reoccurring. There was therefore no medical reason to conclude he was at an elevated risk for future injuries and as a result the standard injury guarantee was written in. 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I got all that.  What I'm saying is that he has an injury which gets him salary for 2018, but it's also the reason he's retiring.  Yet he gets to keep his unamortized SB.  Seems like double-dipping to me. 

 

Then again, maybe that's the way contracts are being done now?  In which case you can't fault the Bills for the contract.

 

Yes only time you lose your Bonus is if you retire on your Own Calvin Johnson or Willis etc. get in trouble. Or a Non Football Injury

 

If you have to retire because you are no longer medically cleared for football because of a football related inj you get to keep your bonus 

2 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

Injury guarantees are common unless your injury history includes things that are likely to reoccur. Eric’s injuries did not fit into that category. A broken leg is not reoccurring it heals and goes away. His knee injuries were not reoccurring. There was therefore no medical reason to conclude he was at an elevated risk for future injuries and as a result the standard injury guarantee was written in. 

 

100 percent false 

 

the Bills are one of the teams that continually shoot themselves in the foot with no protections for the team

[Bakin]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Let him play his contract out. Go to Combine gauge market and sign to an extension before UFA. 

 

Just like they did with InCognito. 

 

Fact is at the time of the extension he was coming off IR and only was able to start in 16 games 3 of 8 years in the league. 

 

Trolls because I question some idiotic decisions?

Again you are talking in hindsight. 

Cogs was never a drafted Bill and so he has to be treated differently. 

 

Wood’s contract is 2 years. 

He has been a major anchor on our line. 

Good player. Gets a minor reward. 

 

You would be the the same person moaning about why we didn’t lock him up earlier when he finished all 16 games and signed a big free agent contract with whomever. 

 

[MAJBobby]

9 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That's the cap hit for the 2018 season.   The dead cap hit now is $14 million, that's why he needs to stay on the roster.  But it also highlights the risk they took by guaranteeing the '18 salary for injury.   

 

If he announced retirement today. Filed paper today the Bills dead cap would be a little over 10M

 

waiting until june 1st they reduce that number for this year but also then carry a 2019 dead cap number 

6 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Again you are talking in hindsight. 

Cogs was never a drafted Bill and so he has to be treated differently. 

 

Wood’s contract is 2 years. 

He has been a major anchor on our line. 

Good player. Gets a minor reward. 

 

You would be the the same person moaning about why we didn’t lock him up earlier when he finished all 16 games and signed a big free agent contract with whomever. 

 

 

I am talking about going into a negotiation with a player that has finished a total of 3 seasons out of 8 as a 16 game season due to Injuries. Same time coming off IR. And you do not protect yourself against the Risk. 

 

And you give him a Bonus this year and Guarantee this year and Guarantee 4.8 next year for INJ. 

 

Fact it you paid 16M in to a player and what was your return. Or ROI

 

again i dont care who drafted the player means NADA to me. They are assets. That is what a GM is an asset manager. Detach your emotions on the player and tell me this was good asset management. 

 

Call that thinking cold and dickish thats fine. But the more teams front offices that think that way the better that specific team is. (Also helps of course to have a top end QB). 

Edited January 30, 2018 by MAJBobby

[Bakin]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

If he announced retirement today. Filed paper today the Bills dead cap would be a little over 10M

 

waiting until june 1st they reduce that number for this year but also then carry a 2019 dead cap number 

 

I am talking about going into a negotiation with a player that has finished a total of 3 seasons out of 8 as a 16 game season due to Injuries. Same time coming off IR. And you do not protect yourself against the Risk. 

 

And you give him a Bonus this year and Guarantee this year and Guarantee 4.8 next year for INJ. 

 

Fact it you paid 16M in to a player and what was your return. Or ROI

You are talking about signing a guy off a free agent contract to a hometown discount deal (Cogs) vs paying a first round draft pick who had started all 16 games in 3 of the previous 4 seasons and has been an anchor on the line since Day 1. 

 

Other than a catastrophically shocking end to his career, what else did you predict?

you know how contracts work, right?

[Batman1876]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Yes only time you lose your Bonus is if you retire on your Own Calvin Johnson or Willis etc. get in trouble. Or a Non Football Injury

 

If you have to retire because you are no longer medically cleared for football because of a football related inj you get to keep your bonus 

 

100 percent false 

 

the Bills are one of the teams that continually shoot themselves in the foot with no protections for the team

Can you point me to anything th

 

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

If he announced retirement today. Filed paper today the Bills dead cap would be a little over 10M

 

waiting until june 1st they reduce that number for this year but also then carry a 2019 dead cap number 

 

I am talking about going into a negotiation with a player that has finished a total of 3 seasons out of 8 as a 16 game season due to Injuries. Same time coming off IR. And you do not protect yourself against the Risk. 

 

And you give him a Bonus this year and Guarantee this year and Guarantee 4.8 next year for INJ. 

 

Fact it you paid 16M in to a player and what was your return. Or ROI

 

again i dont care who drafted the player means NADA to me. They are assets. That is what a GM is an asset manager. Detach your emotions on the player and tell me this was good asset management 

What you continually disregard is the fact that when they signed the contract he had no elevated risk of being injured you can throw around your out of context 3 of 8 but it is irealevant two broken legs and two fully healed knee injuries, all non reoccurring.  Can you tell me what a broken leg or a torn MCL has to do with a damaged neck.the answer is nothing. 

[oldmanfan]

I was going to comment but review of the thread makes it clear the OP has no interest in fact

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, Bakin said:

You are talking about signing a guy off a free agent contract to a hometown discount deal (Cogs) vs paying a first round draft pick who had started all 16 games in 3 of the previous 4 seasons and has been an anchor on the line since Day 1. 

 

Other than a catastrophically shocking end to his career, what else did you predict?

you know how contracts work, right?

 

I am talking about managing an asset that is coming off IR and had had three full healthy seasons in 8 years. 

 

They should have let him play his contract out and approach him at combine just like they did with Cogs when his extension was due. 

6 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

Can you point me to anything th

 

What you continually disregard is the fact that when they signed the contract he had no elevated risk of being injured you can throw around your out of context 3 of 8 but it is irealevant two broken legs and two fully healed knee injuries, all non reoccurring.  Can you tell me what a broken leg or a torn MCL has to do with a damaged neck.the answer is nothing. 

 

So its all good sign all players that are 30 plus in a violent position that hat had 3 healthy seasons to extensions with future years INJ Guarantees. Yep thats Smart 

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I was going to comment but review of the thread makes it clear the OP has no interest in fact

 

Ahhh so got nothing to say??

 

what fact i am posting facts 

 

was he coming off IR?

how many seasons before extension did he play all 16?

did they not have a replacement they matched a RFA offer from another team to keep?

was he not already on contract for 2017?

[GG]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

If he announced retirement today. Filed paper today the Bills dead cap would be a little over 10M

 

waiting until june 1st they reduce that number for this year but also then carry a 2019 dead cap number 

 

If you ae going to use Spotrac, then be consistent.  This is still the 2017 league year, and Wood's dead cap hit in '17 is $14 million, while Bills only have $10 million in cap space left.  McDermott was very evasive when he was asked whether they're negotiating a settlement with Wood.

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

If you ae going to use Spotrac, then be consistent.  This is still the 2017 league year, and Wood's dead cap hit in '17 is $14 million, while Bills only have $10 million in cap space left.  McDermott was very evasive when he was asked whether they're negotiating a settlement with Wood.

 

Yeah my bad. I am just assuming paperwork wouldnt be filed until the new league year anyway. Seeing his or the Bills year is over and everything frozen at this point from what i think i know about the CBA. 

 

Thats what makes this entire press conference thing stupid because player can say he is retired all he wants however isnt until he files paperwork and the team moves him to the reserve retired list. 

 

It does seem to me at this point Bills are gonna go after something (this is just me speculating)

Edited January 30, 2018 by MAJBobby

[gobills1212]

31 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

Injury guarantees are common unless your injury history includes things that are likely to reoccur. Eric’s injuries did not fit into that category. A broken leg is not reoccurring it heals and goes away. His knee injuries were not reoccurring. There was therefore no medical reason to conclude he was at an elevated risk for future injuries and as a result the standard injury guarantee was written in. 

Makes sense. It amazes me how many folks seem to think foresight is 20/20 like hindsight. For the people busting the Bills balls, they must live life making 100% correct decisions...ya know... being able to see the future and all lol

[BobbyC81]

32 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Yes only time you lose your Bonus is if you retire on your Own Calvin Johnson or Willis etc. get in trouble. Or a Non Football Injury

 

If you have to retire because you are no longer medically cleared for football because of a football related inj you get to keep your bonus 

 

100 percent false 

 

the Bills are one of the teams that continually shoot themselves in the foot with no protections for the team

 

Yeah, I can understand the team looking at salary cap implications and it's not my money, but I think going after bonus money already paid to the player is tacky.

[Batman1876]

13 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I am talking about managing an asset that is coming off IR and had had three full healthy seasons in 8 years. 

 

They should have let him play his contract out and approach him at combine just like they did with Cogs when his extension was due. 

 

So its all good sign all players that are 30 plus in a violent position that hat had 3 healthy seasons to extensions with future years INJ Guarantees. Yep thats Smart 

 

Ahhh so got nothing to say??

 

what fact i am posting facts 

 

was he coming off IR?

how many seasons before extension did he play all 16?

did they not have a replacement they matched a RFA offer from another team to keep?

was he not already on contract for 2017?

Complain all you want it is the way things are done now. Julian Edelman missed game time due to injury in 6 of his 8 seasons. Then in June the Pats extended him then in August he was out for the season and the Pats were on the hook for 8 mil in dead cap. If Wood was on IR for tearing his ACL for the 5th time in 8 seasons you’d have a point. But the way the Bills treat non reoccurring injuries is common now. 

[BillsFan4]

4 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

So its Smart signing a over 30 year old Center that has had INJ history (9 year career and 4 years this year being one with all 16 games played) so in more than half of his career he has missed games due to INJ and extension that Guarantees his pay 2 years down the line for INJ?  Wow

 

 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WoodEr20.htm

 

Games played -

 

10 

14

9 

14

16

16

16

9 (broken leg)

16

 

If my math is correct, that's 122 out of a possible 144 games played. At one of the toughest, most repetitively violent positions on the field. 

 

You look at his career games played and see a frequently injured player.

 

i look at those numbers and see this - 

 

He had consistently started the full 16 games in 3 of the last 4 seasons before the extension (4 of the last 5 if you count this year), and started 14 or more games in 4 of the last 5 seasons before the extension (5 of the last 6 if you count this year). He missed 2 or less games in 6 of his 9 years. 

 

I would say that he has been a pretty reliable player for us, especially these last 6 years.

 

How many NFL players never miss any time to injury? 

Was Eric Wood really injured more frequently than most NFL players? 

 

If you never signed a guy who had previously been injured, you wouldn't be able to field a team. 

 

 

And a broken leg is a freak thing and isn't considered something that puts you at future risk of injury, as the fracture site is no more or less likely to breaking again. It heals with equal strength to before the break. 

 

You can't predict when some freak injury is going to happen in the NFL, and none of his previous injuries had anything to do with this current injury in any way. 

 

 

 

Also, I believe the average age of retirement for NFL linemen is 35 (32-38). 

Eric Wood has just turned 31 in March. The Bills only gave him a 2 year contract extension. That's a very reasonable number of years and he could have most likely got more term in free agency. There was absolutely no reason to think that he couldn't play until he was 33. He wasn't really showing signs of slowing down and had only missed more than 2 games once in the last 5 years before the extension.

 

 

None of his previous injuries had ever been career threatening either. So there was no reason to think that he was at higher risk for a career ending injury than any other NFL player. 

 

 

 

 

Last thing - do you know how common injury guarantees are for established/veteran NFL starters?  I haven't looked it up but I'd bet it's pretty common. I bet it's even more common for guys considered at the top 10-15 starters at their position in the NFL, and when you add in guys with multiple pro bowl appearances and other honors I bet the numbers go up even further. 

Edited January 30, 2018 by BillsFan4

[Batman1876]

The op’s premise that Wood should have been looked at as injury prone and treated as if he were another Sam Bradford is flawed in so many ways. 

[BillsFan130]

45 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I am talking about managing an asset that is coming off IR and had had three full healthy seasons in 8 years. 

 

They should have let him play his contract out and approach him at combine just like they did with Cogs when his extension was due. 

 

So its all good sign all players that are 30 plus in a violent position that hat had 3 healthy seasons to extensions with future years INJ Guarantees. Yep thats Smart 

 

Ahhh so got nothing to say??

 

what fact i am posting facts 

 

was he coming off IR?

how many seasons before extension did he play all 16?

did they not have a replacement they matched a RFA offer from another team to keep?

was he not already on contract for 2017?

MAJBobby, I think you do make some fair points.

 

But this is hindsight now, and it's of course easier to speak after the fact.

 

Question, and answer it honestly.

 

When the Bills gave him a 2 year extension, were you mad about the contract at that time?

[Rob's House]

10 hours ago, row_33 said:

Yes, the Pats have made a few bad contract decisions over the Brady era.

 

That means the Bills have been just fine.

 

I enjoy having people in my life who quote "hindsight 20/20" every time a mistake is brought up, what psychotic complex is going through their souls....

 

 

I generally assume people writing off poor draft decisions with the "20/20 hindsight" line suffer from mild mental retardation, because the primary job of those selecting picks is to have foresight, and the only way to evaluate their performance is to see what their picks do on the field. But cervical disc problems are not really foreseeable unless there was some prior indication of the injury.

[MAJBobby]

9 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

MAJBobby, I think you do make some fair points.

 

But this is hindsight now, and it's of course easier to speak after the fact.

 

Question, and answer it honestly.

 

When the Bills gave him a 2 year extension, were you mad about the contract at that time?

 

Yes i was. I thought the contract was not needed and for a player coming off IR in a new system they smart move would have been let him play it out and approach in the offseason. 

 

Everything screamed let him play it out and approach in offseason ala Cogs. That is proper asset management. 

 

But Bills tend to rush their contracts when there is sero need to rush. What was the rush with Eric this past camp?

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by MAJBobby