PaattMaann Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think Groy proved himself in the 8 games he played at C in 2016. It wasn't some tiny sample size, he finished the Seattle game strong and started the next 7. He was better than Wood was in 2016. He's also bigger and stronger. Players get old and get surpassed. That's life in the NFL. As for Wood being a consistent top 10 center for a decade.........also disagree. In fact he was AWFUL in the two years with Marrone......trying to take on bigger DT's head-to-head all day he got manhandled. Even he admitted that had played poorly and may be cut after Marrone year 2. The change to Roman's system allowed him to get better angles on blocks which covered up his weakness at the POA. Groy is bigger and less overwhelmed head-up on a NT but he also proved very effective in Roman's system so he should be fine however Daboll decides to play it. yea we will agree to disagree...except for Wood not playing great under Marrone, which is as much the coaches/schemes fault as Wood's groy and wood are essentially the same size and I don't pretend to know their bench press stats so I can't say who is stronger. I prefer to have a larger sample size than 7 games when judging someone against a 10 year career lol I do hope your optimism is correct, having Groy in place to replace Wood would certainly be one less giant hole to fill on a team already filled with holes. I'll wait and see if Groy is even given the opportunity to be the starting C before I jump on your "groy is better than wood" bandwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 On 1/29/2018 at 10:43 AM, ddaryl said: disagree .. its pretty standard practice... Name 1 agent that would allow his client to do otherwise. Name some of the contracts that remove money if someone gets injured and can't play. Also what bad lingo in the contract... If any team was to cut any of their top played players 1/2 way thorugh a contract or have that player medically retire in th emiddle of the deal they would all be left with significant cap hits. So what bad lingo are you referring to that is unsual in your eyes ? On 1/29/2018 at 10:47 AM, Buffalo716 said: The NFL doesn't guarantee contracts. players retire all the time because injury and their teams don't get hit with cap hits... i have always been under that assumption unless you can show me that it happens a lot i was never under that assumption... NFL contracts were never guaranteed unless the player got special verbiage Guaranteed $'s for veterans in the NFL is guaranteed. For a Buffalo Bills example: Aaron Williams was injured in 2016 and got paid for the season. His guaranteed contract ensured him being paid his guaranteed money due in 2017. He is also STILL getting his guaranteed money being paid to him in 2018. Wood's contract was a mess since 2016. He signed a "typical" contract extension in 2013 for the upcoming 4 years. His big "cap hit" year was in 2016. Rex and Whaley wanted players to restructure in 2016 for "free up cap". Wood did and had his big hit year (8 million) restructured to have only a little more than 4 million in 2016. Wood was guaranteed restructure money in 2018 even if he wasn't on the team anymore! Then, in 2017 OBD wanted to keep Wood longer than his 2017 contract so they did an extension. The restructure was still there and he did a guaranteed signing bonus on top. He had a guaranteed 2017 contract. Now, all that being said, here is the "unusual" part of his last contract. 2018 Base Salary was guaranteed for injury. This isn't common in contract like you said Buffalo716. A more common way for a player and his agent to do is guarantee a portion of the following years Base Salary. OBD and Wood agreed (in essence) to a front load his extension. Wood had nearly nothing guaranteed in 2019 (2 million). Releasing Wood at the beginning of the 2019 season was a definite possibility the way the contract was written. My "moral to the story" is don't restructure contracts all the time to free up cap. All restructuring does is transfer non-guaranteed money to guaranteed. It's OK once in a while but it does increase risk of crazy Dead Cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 11:39 AM, Buffalo716 said: He signed an extension that guaranteed his contract if injured... bad lingo in contract is why we have the cap hit I don't think it's that uncommon for high-level vets the team really wants to retain to negotiate for salary "protected against injury". Would typically be a handful of players per team as I understand it. It's a risk mitigation tool for the player and a cap management tool for the team - "my guy could get more $$ on the open market" "we'll give him an injury guarantee" "OK!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't think it's that uncommon for high-level vets the team really wants to retain to negotiate for salary "protected against injury". Would typically be a handful of players per team as I understand it. It's a risk mitigation tool for the player and a cap management tool for the team - "my guy could get more $$ on the open market" "we'll give him an injury guarantee" "OK!" I fully understand that. And Eric deserves everything. my initial post days ago was all in regards to the cap. Not if he deserves it as a man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 On 1/29/2018 at 2:40 PM, Buffalo716 said: Again I never thought what they did was bad. It is a very good thing from a personal standpoint and I'm praying for Eric i was just stating that the cap hit is bad from a business standpoint. you could be right . More players may have injury clauses than I know , it certainly isn't public till it happens One of the strangest cases that came to light was the case of Chris Williams. Remember him? For those who don't, the Bills signed him in March 2014 to a $13.5M contract with $5.5M fully guaranteed. He played 3 games before going on IR. He was cut with a designation "failed physical" the following July (what will probably happen with Wood). The Bills literally paid the guy $1.83M a game. For a "meh" guard. And carried a dead cap hit into 2015 IIRC. 6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I fully understand that. And Eric deserves everything. my initial post days ago was all in regards to the cap. Not if he deserves it as a man Oh, yeah, it totally sucks from a cap perspective. I'm not persuaded yet that the Bills have fixed the contract problems in the FO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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