transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said: Again, I am not saying that Darnold isn't one of the top QB prospects. I am just surprised that nobody mentions the turnovers. I was with you right up to the point where you talked about trading Taylor to the Browns. Why would the Browns want Tyrod Taylor? They are going to draft their own QB and Taylor is not a long-term answer for any team as a starting QB. Because Josh Allen is incredibly raw and needs time on the bench, Tyrod Taylor is a helluva lot better than Kizer, and Taylor's contract would expire after 2018 so the Browns would get him for literally one year and then be free of him as Allen takes over. This way the Browns would be able to sell their fanbase that they're actually trying to win in 2018 with a capable vet QB and offensive talent one would assume they would have stockpiled with all their draft picks and FA while also having the QB of the future on the roster. That's why
OldTimer1960 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: Because Josh Allen is incredibly raw and needs time on the bench, Tyrod Taylor is a helluva lot better than Kizer, and Taylor's contract would expire after 2018 so the Browns would get him for literally one year and then be free of him as Allen takes over. This way the Browns would be able to sell their fanbase that they're actually trying to win in 2018 with a capable vet QB and offensive talent one would assume they would have stockpiled with all their draft picks and FA while also having the QB of the future on the roster. That's why I think you are valuing Taylor much too high. I would not expect that the Bills could get a 5th round pick for him. im not a Taylor hater, but the reason that the Bills want to replace him is why most teams would not trade for him. Maybe someone will, but I will be surprised 1
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 19 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: I think you are valuing Taylor much too high. I would not expect that the Bills could get a 5th round pick for him. im not a Taylor hater, but the reason that the Bills want to replace him is why most teams would not trade for him. Maybe someone will, but I will be surprised Uhhhh... wait... did you think I was saying it would be Taylor for the #4 overall pick? If that's what you thought I was saying, I wasn't. Taylor would be part of a package.
OldTimer1960 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 27 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Uhhhh... wait... did you think I was saying it would be Taylor for the #4 overall pick? If that's what you thought I was saying, I wasn't. Taylor would be part of a package. No, I was just commenting that Taylor would really be a throw-in, at best equivalent to a 5th round pick or so - at least in my opinion. I am not saying that Taylor has no value to any team, but I wouldn't expect Cleveland to want to trade for him as a "vet bridge" for a rookie that they draft early. Rationale is that Bills don't seem to want him in that role, why would Cleveland? If they are looking for a veteran mentor, I don't think Taylor is really the guy for that given where his weaknesses are. I'd think someone like Josh McCown would be a better alternative and they may not need to trade for him. 1
xRUSHx Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: No, I was just commenting that Taylor would really be a throw-in, at best equivalent to a 5th round pick or so - at least in my opinion. I am not saying that Taylor has no value to any team, but I wouldn't expect Cleveland to want to trade for him as a "vet bridge" for a rookie that they draft early. Rationale is that Bills don't seem to want him in that role, why would Cleveland? If they are looking for a veteran mentor, I don't think Taylor is really the guy for that given where his weaknesses are. I'd think someone like Josh McCown would be a better alternative and they may not need to trade for him. I do not understand how some think Tyrod will be on the team to trade considering his bonus to be paid this year and to only get a 5th rounder for that type of bonus is a complete waste of cap money IMO. Edited January 24, 2018 by xRUSHx
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, xRUSHx said: I do not understand how some think Tyrod will be on the team to trade considering his bonus to be paid this year and to only get a 5th rounder for that type of bonus is a complete waste of money IMO. We get to find out in less than 2 months. One possibility is the Bills package Taylor in a trade to a team like Cleveland for a top 5 draft pick in the first couple days of the league year so we don't pay that roster bonus. One possibility is the Bills trade Taylor by himself or as part of a package for another QB like Alex Smith with every intention of drafting a 1st round QB, too. One possibility is the Bills keep Taylor, pay him his bonus, indicating that they're good with him on the team for 2018 while also waiting and seeing what unfolds on draft day and being open to all offers if the draft shakes a way they like. I think the last possibility is the most likely, but we'll see.
dezertbill Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 We are a playoff team with some of our core being in the 30 plus age range. While our goal will be to get younger, I don't see the Bills scrapping their momentum to take a step back. Taking a QB to play in year 1 at any point in the first round would do that, unless they really felt a guy could come in and play well game 1. History says that's a long shot. It makes all the sense in the world for the Bills to sign a veteran guy on the south side of 30 years old that can start for 6-7 years (the age most successful QB's play till these days). That way they can use those high draft picks this year and not only shore up some much needed weaknesses, but also get younger in a number of different areas. Alexander, Kyle Williams, Incognito, Wood, Shady are all guys to name a few that the Bills realize time is ticking on their careers. Shady truly has another good year or two left but he has missed games and the Bills need to have a guy they can count on to replace him besides Tolbert. If they draft a guy like Rudolph, he needs time to develop. Bringing in a journeyman to play .500 football doesn't makes sense right now. We are too good (funny to say that). The only scenario would be to draft a guy like Brees who has a year or two left, but prying him away from the Saints will be impossible. I only see us going after one of the FA QBs and draft four starters in the first two rounds to get this team deeper into the playoffs.
xRUSHx Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, transplantbillsfan said: We get to find out in less than 2 months. One possibility is the Bills package Taylor in a trade to a team like Cleveland for a top 5 draft pick in the first couple days of the league year so we don't pay that roster bonus. One possibility is the Bills trade Taylor by himself or as part of a package for another QB like Alex Smith with every intention of drafting a 1st round QB, too. One possibility is the Bills keep Taylor, pay him his bonus, indicating that they're good with him on the team for 2018 while also waiting and seeing what unfolds on draft day and being open to all offers if the draft shakes a way they like. I think the last possibility is the most likely, but we'll see. That bonus kills most of what your saying IMO. Can not spend that kind of money in a bonus wishing a team will want him for even a 5th let alone anything else IMO. I do agree that if they pay the bonus this team is stuck with him another season as the starter. Please get my barrel ready I am going over the falls if that happens because I lose all faith in this new staff. 4 minutes ago, dezertbill said: We are a playoff team with some of our core being in the 30 plus age range. While our goal will be to get younger, I don't see the Bills scrapping their momentum to take a step back. Taking a QB to play in year 1 at any point in the first round would do that, unless they really felt a guy could come in and play well game 1. History says that's a long shot. It makes all the sense in the world for the Bills to sign a veteran guy on the south side of 30 years old that can start for 6-7 years (the age most successful QB's play till these days). That way they can use those high draft picks this year and not only shore up some much needed weaknesses, but also get younger in a number of different areas. Alexander, Kyle Williams, Incognito, Wood, Shady are all guys to name a few that the Bills realize time is ticking on their careers. Shady truly has another good year or two left but he has missed games and the Bills need to have a guy they can count on to replace him besides Tolbert. If they draft a guy like Rudolph, he needs time to develop. Bringing in a journeyman to play .500 football doesn't makes sense right now. We are too good (funny to say that). The only scenario would be to draft a guy like Brees who has a year or two left, but prying him away from the Saints will be impossible. I only see us going after one of the FA QBs and draft four starters in the first two rounds to get this team deeper into the playoffs. So you are saying they are better off doing what many GM/HCs do and try to win now, sadly that gets most of them fired and this team continuing the same long haul fall to the next record breaking of no playoff seasons IMO.
Success Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 I’m so torn on this. I love the draft picks we have, and we can probably build a great team if we stay put. But after so many years of getting owned by Brady, I’d really love to take a shot at a QB who has a good chance of being great. A great QB can cover so many other flaws. With an average QB, everything else has to almost be perfect, all the time. I trust the process right now. But I’d be more excited if that process had us trading up for a guy like Darnold. 1
Fadingpain Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: I do not understand how some think Tyrod will be on the team to trade considering his bonus to be paid this year and to only get a 5th rounder for that type of bonus is a complete waste of cap money IMO. Aside from the fact that he has no trade value around the league.
ndirish1978 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Either way this draft will either set us up for the next 5 years or tank us for a minimum of 3. I'd LOVE it if we could figure out an Eagles-style trade up, to get Darnold and no t waste all our draft capital for him, but it's unlikely. I'd love it even more if we could just pay Cousins and draft a crapload of good players. Heck, we could trade up to 14-15 and get a premium DT/LB and still have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. Most likely - we get someone like Alex Smith and draft the 3rd or 4rth best QB in a minor trade up scenario where we lose a 2. Edited January 24, 2018 by ndirish1978
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 51 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: That bonus kills most of what your saying IMO. Can not spend that kind of money in a bonus wishing a team will want him for even a 5th let alone anything else IMO. I do agree that if they pay the bonus this team is stuck with him another season as the starter. Please get my barrel ready I am going over the falls if that happens because I lose all faith in this new staff. Nah, I could see them paying the $6 million bonus and then seeing something happen in the draft they really didn't expect in a good way and throwing Taylor in as part of a trade package. As for the Taylor being a starter again in 2018. It might still happen, but that'll be his last year in Buffalo.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 19 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: It really is debatable if Darnold will be a better QB than Rosen. Because as of today Rosen is the better QB hands down you are drafting Darnold for 3 years down the road You are hoping on Darnolds upside to kick in... because They both have good football IQs but Rosen has a better arm today ....surrendering MAJOR capital for ONE guy with a multitude of holes to fill makes no sense to me and I don't see this gang as "riverboat gamblers" willing to roll BIG dice like that....strictly opinion....... 1
Buffalo716 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....surrendering MAJOR capital for ONE guy with a multitude of holes to fill makes no sense to me and I don't see this gang as "riverboat gamblers" willing to roll BIG dice like that....strictly opinion....... Oh I don't think we are trading up to the top 5 Im just saying the best pure passer in the draft is Rosen 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Oh I don't think we are trading up to the top 5 Im just saying the best pure passer in the draft is Rosen ....I know....you're one of the SANE ones around here....a minority.............
ColoradoBills Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 5 hours ago, TigerJ said: In all likelihood, the Bills will sign a veteran well before the draft. The identity of the veteran will determine their draft strategy with respect to QBs. The more years they can anticipate the veteran starting, the lower in the draft they will be looking for a QB. 4 hours ago, teef said: this has been my guess as to how the bills will approach the qb position too. it all depends how FA plays out. I agree and have said the same thing. Too many people saying things like will just pick up so and so if we can't move up and get so and so. FA/Trades will determine what happens because of a simple thing..................it comes first. OBD has to have all it's ducks in a row for the first few days of the new year. 15 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Nah, I could see them paying the $6 million bonus and then seeing something happen in the draft they really didn't expect in a good way and throwing Taylor in as part of a trade package. As for the Taylor being a starter again in 2018. It might still happen, but that'll be his last year in Buffalo. You have said you can see the Bills picking up Alex Smith in a trade.................I don't think OBD has Smith under contract for 17 million and Tyrod under contract with a 6 million Bonus for 18 million hoping to trade him later. IF they pay TT 6 million in bonus he will start next year. The thing is, OBD's odds of paying TT the bonus are very slim.
Jay_Fixit Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 20 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: It really is debatable if Darnold will be a better QB than Rosen. Because as of today Rosen is the better QB hands down you are drafting Darnold for 3 years down the road You are hoping on Darnolds upside to kick in... because They both have good football IQs but Rosen has a better arm today Hands down? Nope. The only thing Rosen does objectively better than Darnold is look better throwing. And possibly more arm strength. That’s it.
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said: You have said you can see the Bills picking up Alex Smith in a trade.................I don't think OBD has Smith under contract for 17 million and Tyrod under contract with a 6 million Bonus for 18 million hoping to trade him later. IF they pay TT 6 million in bonus he will start next year. The thing is, OBD's odds of paying TT the bonus are very slim. I've said I can see picking up Alex Smith in a trade, yes. If we do there's no way in hell Taylor's still on our roster, obviously. I could see Taylor and another player or a draft pick being swapped for Smith. Sorry, thought it was pretty obvious that if I thought we were to acquire Smith, Taylor would no longer be a Bill. But that would have to happen in the first few days of the league year before the roster bonus is due. But if they pay TT the 6 million bonus, I disagree that OBD no longer considers or actively tries to trade him if it's for a draft pick. At that point it would not be for a vet QB like Smith.
Buffalo716 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Hands down? Nope. The only thing Rosen does objectively better than Darnold is look better throwing. And possibly more arm strength. That’s it. Most scouts and execs will admit that Rosen is the better QB today he also has great pocket presence and throws a great ball to all levels. He is more accurate than Darnold . Completion % isn't the whole story UCLA was top 10 in the country in drops I love Darnold but he just led Division 1 in turnovers and can admit Rosen is better today Edited January 24, 2018 by Buffalo716
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 28 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....surrendering MAJOR capital for ONE guy with a multitude of holes to fill makes no sense to me and I don't see this gang as "riverboat gamblers" willing to roll BIG dice like that....strictly opinion....... Disagree. I think the main reason the Bills traded down in last year's draft and traded Watkins and Darby was to accrue the ammunition to trade up in this draft for a QB. In terms of value (if you're going by one of those "charts") to get into the top 5 the Bills would have to give up 2 1sts this year (which we have) and 1 2nd (which we have 2 of). Isn't it worth going up and getting your future Franchise QB (assuming McBeane are that much in love with one of these guys) and being left with "only" 1 pick in the 2nd-4th rounds and 2 picks in the 5th? If this past season proved anything for me it's that coaching and system trumps talent but having that coach and system ALONG WITH a great QB can make you a serious contender for as long as those 3 things remain in tact.
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