The Time is Now McBeane!

[Rubes]

4 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Colts or Browns would be the partners, preferably the Colts. Do it before the draft too. Lock yourself into the 3rd pick and you are guaranteed Rosen, Darnold, Allen, or Mayfield.

 

Why would the Browns or Colts agree to that now? The longer they hold out, the higher the price gets.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

Manning's draft profile:

Peyton Manning: (...)He has good arm strength, but not necessarily a “gun” that you might expect from a QB at the top of the draft.. He has adequate mobility and good overall AA, although he is not a scrambler by nature. He has done an excellent job of getting the most out of his abilities, but he is not quite as natural a player as Leaf. One question that some NFL scouts have is the question “will he get any better?” At times he gives the appearance of being a self-made player, and sometimes those types of players don’t always go on to great NFL careers. In Manning’s case, he may be a solid and productive NFL QB, but he may not have Hall of Fame type skills (...)

 

Here is Leaf for comparison:

Ryan Leaf: Leaf appears to be the hot QB in this draft, and he led WSU to a storybook season...He is a physically imposing QB with great size and strength....he is very sturdy and durable in the pocket, and is a surprisingly good athlete for his size...He has a strong arm and shows good touch, and can change up the speed on his passes...He has good feet, but is not really a scrambler. However, he can stand in and take the big hits....He is a very naturally gifted player, but could improve on his throwing mechanics, although it is not a major problem....There are no physical or athletic limitations to hold Leaf back from becoming a great NFL QB. However, there appears to be some minor nagging questions in the area of maturity and his mental approach to the game. He is perceived as not always an easy guy to work with, and he tends to beat to his own drummer...(...)....Nobody will question his physical abilities, and it is not outlandish to think that he could be the first pick of the draft, instead of Peyton Manning....There is a huge upside with Leaf, and it is conceivable that he could be one of the best young QB’s in the game in 2-3 years...(...)

 

A-f*ckin' mazing.  Minor nagging questions.  See bolded anecdote below.  Just curious, where you pulled these from?

 

Excerpt from Bill Polian book on ESPN:   [(....) means I deleted a section.  Bolding mine.  I only quoted a fraction of the article, fair use I think.   -Hap]

"We are going to ignore the noise; it's not part of the equation. We are going to make the decision based on what we believe to be sound football reasons."

Yet, there I was, on a Sunday, watching the tape of Peyton's throws and hearing all of that "noise" in my head: "He doesn't have a strong arm ... He can't make the deep throws ..." I began to focus on every pass in his career that traveled more than 40 yards and what I found out was that, once the ball got beyond 60 yards, he started losing accuracy.

The next morning, I got Tom Moore and Bruce Arians together, and said, "I think you have a ceiling on Manning's arm at about 60 yards."

They both look at me as if I were crazy. I could see in their eyes that they were thinking, He's lost it. We're working with a guy who has lost his marbles and he's in charge of the franchise! Tom then looked up and said, dryly, "Well, then, Bill, we'll be sure not to throw any passes over 59 yards."

"In late March/early April, we arranged a private workout with Peyton at Tennessee. Tom has an arm-strength drill whereby he stands the quarterback on the goal line and has a receiver facing him five yards away. The quarterback has to throw to the receiver using only his arm; he isn't allowed to step into his throw or use his feet in any way. And after each throw, the receiver moves back in 5-yard increments until he eventually reaches the 50-yard line. (....) Tom put Peyton through the arm-strength drill, and his pass to the 50-yard line was on a rope. Peyton's arm was among the strongest I have seen. (...) Interestingly, Peyton threw what we call a "heavy ball," meaning it has a lot of rotation on it, which was quite interesting because guys with weaker arms usually don't throw a heavy ball."

" The next day, we went to Washington State to work out Ryan Leaf. (....) The first thing that caught my eye was that, during the measurement and weight-lifting segments indoors, Ryan was wearing sweatpants that he never took off (...) The Washington State coaches orchestrated the entire workout; we weren't able to conduct it ourselves as we had in Tennessee.  Ryan went through all of the standard throwing drills and did okay, not great. (.......)Ryan didn't drive the ball quite as well as Peyton did, which, frankly, was what showed up on tape and put the lie to this idea that there was this huge gulf physically between them. And I presumed the reason Ryan wouldn't take his sweatpants off was because he didn't want us to see what kind of shape he was in."
 

"Now, you know Ryan," Jim Mora said, "May 10th is the day that you can come in to work out with us, and if we draft you, we expect you there."

"Well, Coach, I can't make it," Ryan said.  Everybody's head snapped back, and that included Coach Price, who I am sure was not aware of anything that would keep his former quarterback from being on time for his first NFL practice.  "Why not?" Jim asked.  "My buddies and I have planned a trip for a year to Las Vegas, and we have to go on this trip. It's kind of a celebration of the draft and everything, and I will be in probably around the 15th of May."  That wasn't the answer any of us wanted to hear.

 

Memo to my fellow fans: Ignore the noise.  If we have the right guys, and they ignore the nose and focus on the sound football reasons, they will choose correctly.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[SouthNYfan]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

A-f*ckin' mazing.  Minor nagging questions.  See bolded anecdote below.  Just curious, where you pulled these from?

 

Excerpt from Bill Polian book on ESPN:   [(....) means I deleted a section.  Bolding mine. -Hap]

"We are going to ignore the noise; it's not part of the equation. We are going to make the decision based on what we believe to be sound football reasons."

Yet, there I was, on a Sunday, watching the tape of Peyton's throws and hearing all of that "noise" in my head: "He doesn't have a strong arm ... He can't make the deep throws ..." I began to focus on every pass in his career that traveled more than 40 yards and what I found out was that, once the ball got beyond 60 yards, he started losing accuracy.

The next morning, I got Tom Moore and Bruce Arians together, and said, "I think you have a ceiling on Manning's arm at about 60 yards."

They both look at me as if I were crazy. I could see in their eyes that they were thinking, He's lost it. We're working with a guy who has lost his marbles and he's in charge of the franchise! Tom then looked up and said, dryly, "Well, then, Bill, we'll be sure not to throw any passes over 59 yards."

"In late March/early April, we arranged a private workout with Peyton at Tennessee. Tom has an arm-strength drill whereby he stands the quarterback on the goal line and has a receiver facing him five yards away. The quarterback has to throw to the receiver using only his arm; he isn't allowed to step into his throw or use his feet in any way. And after each throw, the receiver moves back in 5-yard increments until he eventually reaches the 50-yard line. (....) Tom put Peyton through the arm-strength drill, and his pass to the 50-yard line was on a rope. Peyton's arm was among the strongest I have seen. (...) Interestingly, Peyton threw what we call a "heavy ball," meaning it has a lot of rotation on it, which was quite interesting because guys with weaker arms usually don't throw a heavy ball."

" The next day, we went to Washington State to work out Ryan Leaf. (....) The first thing that caught my eye was that, during the measurement and weight-lifting segments indoors, Ryan was wearing sweatpants that he never took off (...) The Washington State coaches orchestrated the entire workout; we weren't able to conduct it ourselves as we had in Tennessee.  Ryan went through all of the standard throwing drills and did okay, not great. (.......)Ryan didn't drive the ball quite as well as Peyton did, which, frankly, was what showed up on tape and put the lie to this idea that there was this huge gulf physically between them. And I presumed the reason Ryan wouldn't take his sweatpants off was because he didn't want us to see what kind of shape he was in."
 

"Now, you know Ryan," Jim Mora said, "May 10th is the day that you can come in to work out with us, and if we draft you, we expect you there."

"Well, Coach, I can't make it," Ryan said.  Everybody's head snapped back, and that included Coach Price, who I am sure was not aware of anything that would keep his former quarterback from being on time for his first NFL practice.  "Why not?" Jim asked.  "My buddies and I have planned a trip for a year to Las Vegas, and we have to go on this trip. It's kind of a celebration of the draft and everything, and I will be in probably around the 15th of May."  That wasn't the answer any of us wanted to hear.

 

Memo to my fellow fans: Ignore the noise.  If we have the right guys, and they ignore the nose and focus on the sound football reasons, they will choose correctly.

 

 

 

Leaf wanted to go to the chargers though

He skipped the meeting on purpose to piss off Mora so they didn't take him

This was verified by his agent and the chargers former GM

 

Anyway good post overall

I love seeing what these guys say

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Leaf wanted to go to the chargers though

He skipped the meeting on purpose to piss off Mora so they didn't take him

This was verified by his agent and the chargers former GM

 

Anyway good post overall

I love seeing what these guys say

 

Did you read the excerpt?  Bill Polian isn't so certain of that......."

The Chargers had been scheduled to go first, and Bobby Beathard, their general manager at the time, was walking out to the parking lot of Martin Stadium as we were walking in. Bobby smiled and said something to me like, "This guy is head and shoulders above Peyton Manning, no question about it. This was the greatest workout I have ever seen."  I knew he was joking because he had that Bobby Beathard twinkle in his eye. (....) 16 years later, Steinberg wrote in his book, "The Agent", that he suggested to Ryan to intentionally skip his meeting with us in order to discourage us from selecting him, thus allowing him to go to where Leigh said he preferred to play: San Diego. Leigh also wrote that he cleared the idea with Bobby Beathard so the Chargers' GM wouldn't question Ryan's reliability, and added that Bobby "went along with the ruse." I seriously doubt that, because of my conversation with Bobby in the parking lot of Martin Stadium. Bobby, of course, has subsequently said that he was never approached or involved in any discussions designed to bring Ryan to the Chargers.

 

'Course, if he wanted to appear out of shape and disinterested, Leaf coulda wore his sweats and answered like "Party Boy with Bad Priorities" for the same reason.  Except, his later behavior showed him to be, in fact, Party Boy with Bad Priorities and he certainly didn't come through for the Chargers, so...

 

 

Off the topic, I had no idea CJ Beathard was the grandson of an NFL GM.  Interesting family.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[SouthNYfan]

40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Did you read the excerpt?  Bill Polian isn't so certain of that......."

The Chargers had been scheduled to go first, and Bobby Beathard, their general manager at the time, was walking out to the parking lot of Martin Stadium as we were walking in. Bobby smiled and said something to me like, "This guy is head and shoulders above Peyton Manning, no question about it. This was the greatest workout I have ever seen."  I knew he was joking because he had that Bobby Beathard twinkle in his eye. (....) 16 years later, Steinberg wrote in his book, "The Agent", that he suggested to Ryan to intentionally skip his meeting with us in order to discourage us from selecting him, thus allowing him to go to where Leigh said he preferred to play: San Diego. Leigh also wrote that he cleared the idea with Bobby Beathard so the Chargers' GM wouldn't question Ryan's reliability, and added that Bobby "went along with the ruse." I seriously doubt that, because of my conversation with Bobby in the parking lot of Martin Stadium. Bobby, of course, has subsequently said that he was never approached or involved in any discussions designed to bring Ryan to the Chargers.

 

'Course, if he wanted to appear out of shape and disinterested, Leaf coulda wore his sweats and answered like "Party Boy with Bad Priorities" for the same reason.  Except, his later behavior showed him to be, in fact, Party Boy with Bad Priorities and he certainly didn't come through for the Chargers, so...

 

 

Off the topic, I had no idea CJ Beathard was the grandson of an NFL GM.  Interesting family.

 

Awesome about CJ!!

 

Yeah I read the excerpts

 

It's a he said she said

 

Either way, colts made the right call obv

 

But looking at leafs profile, they state he's raw, needs good coaching, and a good OLINE to protect him while he learns

 

He was thrown to the wolves in a bad situation with the chargers, so maybe he would have succeeded in Indy

(I'm sure Peyton would have succeeded anywhere btw, well maybe not Cleveland... They are awful always)

[DC Tom]

14 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

The time is overdue , the time is now .

 

Well...which is it, dammit?  Is it now, or past?

[fansince88]

44 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Well...which is it, dammit?  Is it now, or past?

It is too late to be too soon. Simple as the complexity of it all for the most part. I'm confident that I believe this may be correct. You know what I'm trying to say @DC Tom

[CaptnCoke11]

11 hours ago, jimmy10 said:

Can we stop with the McBeane thing? I know McDermott is hard to spell, but give it a shot. You’ll figure it out. 

I agree.. It’s getting up there in stupidity on the same level as Bills Mafia 

Edited January 24, 2018 by CaptnCoke11

[OldTimer1960]

8 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

If they see a guy that they really, truly feel is going to be that kind of guy, that guy who becomes a Pro Bowl type QB and is here for the next 15 years, then they should make a move and do what they need to in order to move up.  And it will take a lot more than Glenn and our two first round picks to do so.  Take a look at the moves for Wentz and Goff.

 

As to being OK swinging and missing, you really think you'll be OK if the guy doesn't pan out?  really?  Or will you be on here demanding Beane be fired for giving away the store on a guy that was a bust?

 

For me, I still say if you're going to spend money, spend it on a guy that you have some clue will be a good QB for you.  Go get Cousins.  My guess is that Darnold will not pan out because this past season shows his inaccuracy issues and he has questionable mechanics.  Allen is similar.  If I had to pick one it would be Rosen or Mayfield, and of those I'd take Mayfield.  But I'd rather take a guy like the kid from western KY in the second and continue to build my roster, especially if I get Cousins.

I am not keen on trading 2 #1s and a 2 or more to take a shot on a good, but not great QB prospect.  There are maybe 4 QB prospects that have a decent to good chance to be that elusive “franchise” QB. Everyone of them have flaws/questions that make you pause before selecting them.

 

i know that eventually you have to Sh*t or get off the pot at QB, but trading the farm for a guy with major questions about whether he can be good, let alone great, should be considered very seriously.

 

if they *really* like a QB prospect in this draft, I’m not opposed to trading what they need to in order to get him.  However, if they are ambivalent or can’t pull off the trade to get who they want, I’d be on board with trading one 1st for a 1st in 2019 and a 2nd or 3rd this year.  Stocking up on other positions this year to prepare to go all out for a QB next year isn’t a bad plan.

[oldmanfan]

43 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I am not keen on trading 2 #1s and a 2 or more to take a shot on a good, but not great QB prospect.  There are maybe 4 QB prospects that have a decent to good chance to be that elusive “franchise” QB. Everyone of them have flaws/questions that make you pause before selecting them.

 

i know that eventually you have to Sh*t or get off the pot at QB, but trading the farm for a guy with major questions about whether he can be good, let alone great, should be considered very seriously.

 

if they *really* like a QB prospect in this draft, I’m not opposed to trading what they need to in order to get him.  However, if they are ambivalent or can’t pull off the trade to get who they want, I’d be on board with trading one 1st for a 1st in 2019 and a 2nd or 3rd this year.  Stocking up on other positions this year to prepare to go all out for a QB next year isn’t a bad plan.

Agree.  

[Mikie2times]

53 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I am not keen on trading 2 #1s and a 2 or more to take a shot on a good, but not great QB prospect.  There are maybe 4 QB prospects that have a decent to good chance to be that elusive “franchise” QB. Everyone of them have flaws/questions that make you pause before selecting them.

 

i know that eventually you have to Sh*t or get off the pot at QB, but trading the farm for a guy with major questions about whether he can be good, let alone great, should be considered very seriously.

 

if they *really* like a QB prospect in this draft, I’m not opposed to trading what they need to in order to get him.  However, if they are ambivalent or can’t pull off the trade to get who they want, I’d be on board with trading one 1st for a 1st in 2019 and a 2nd or 3rd this year.  Stocking up on other positions this year to prepare to go all out for a QB next year isn’t a bad plan.

When is the term "great" applicable? Mahomes or Watson considered to be great NFL prospects? Pretty sure one of those guys becomes just that. Geoff was, only until he wasn't and now he is again.....

 

Generally speaking if you go high on a QB you got somewhere around a 50/50 shot. I posted an article on TBD regarding this as well as another forum poster. Flip a coin or stay pat and play the same game we have for almost 20 years. I say flip the damn coin.  

[The Now Moment]

8 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

There are plenty of NFL scouts who disagree with you that none of these guys are elite prospects.

Looks like you didn't even read Manning's scouting report.

Actually I did, it started with "Manning is probably the most prepared prospect in several years."  Also, I watched him with my own eyes and he was a lot better than these guys in college.  He was an elite prospect, these guys are good but not elite.  Sorry.  They can go dominate the NFL next year but it won't change the fact that they are not elite prospects.  I've watched every single one of them and not one do I unquestionably say is an elite prospect.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

6 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I am not keen on trading 2 #1s and a 2 or more to take a shot on a good, but not great QB prospect.  There are maybe 4 QB prospects that have a decent to good chance to be that elusive “franchise” QB. Everyone of them have flaws/questions that make you pause before selecting them.

 

i know that eventually you have to Sh*t or get off the pot at QB, but trading the farm for a guy with major questions about whether he can be good, let alone great, should be considered very seriously.

 

if they *really* like a QB prospect in this draft, I’m not opposed to trading what they need to in order to get him.  However, if they are ambivalent or can’t pull off the trade to get who they want, I’d be on board with trading one 1st for a 1st in 2019 and a 2nd or 3rd this year.  Stocking up on other positions this year to prepare to go all out for a QB next year isn’t a bad plan.

I agree , the premise of my message from the beginning was if the Bills feel believe there's a bona-fide Franchise QB they can get possibly . Then they need to do what it takes to get him.  Don't let holes at other positions get in the way.  In no way shape or form was i saying to take a shot in the complete darkness and hope they hit the target. They need to take a calculated risk based on there projections of that QB. 

 

Now if McBeane doesn't really feel this way bout any prospects then don't even try to move up.  But please don't SETTLE! that's the worst thing we can do is get to 21-22 and take the best of the rest hoping he can be the guy . Ej Manuel situation is what u don't want. Please don't reach for need.  I might be overthinking this because of past mistakes this org has made i feel like I've been burned by this in the past so i might have some trust issues. I also feel that Mason and Lamar are not first rd prospects not at all.  So my point is don't waste your pks make sure u stand by your convictions.  

 

 

[SouthNYfan]

7 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

Actually I did, it started with "Manning is probably the most prepared prospect in several years."  Also, I watched him with my own eyes and he was a lot better than these guys in college.  He was an elite prospect, these guys are good but not elite.  Sorry.  They can go dominate the NFL next year but it won't change the fact that they are not elite prospects.  I've watched every single one of them and not one do I unquestionably say is an elite prospect.  

 

You quoted one line from Manning.

There was a ton about him, including:

"One question that some NFL scouts have is the question “will he get any better?” At times he gives the appearance of being a self-made player, and sometimes those types of players don’t always go on to great NFL careers. In Manning’s case, he may be a solid and productive NFL QB, but he may not have Hall of Fame type skills"

 

Guess what they are saying about Rosen?

"Rosen is far superior [than Darnold] going through his progressions and has a pretty deep ball. He's a better QB right now, but that doesn't mean he will be down the line."

 

Rosen and darnold are both elite prospects.

Rosen is the most polished and NFL ready.

Darnold looks to have higher potential upside.

 

I have yet to find and credible source doesn't think so least one of them is elite.

 

I'm sure the scouts for NFL teams are better at this than we are.

 

I'll trust the pros.

[The Now Moment]

11 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

You quoted one line from Manning.

There was a ton about him, including:

"One question that some NFL scouts have is the question “will he get any better?” At times he gives the appearance of being a self-made player, and sometimes those types of players don’t always go on to great NFL careers. In Manning’s case, he may be a solid and productive NFL QB, but he may not have Hall of Fame type skills"

 

Guess what they are saying about Rosen?

"Rosen is far superior [than Darnold] going through his progressions and has a pretty deep ball. He's a better QB right now, but that doesn't mean he will be down the line."

 

Rosen and darnold are both elite prospects.

Rosen is the most polished and NFL ready.

Darnold looks to have higher potential upside.

 

I have yet to find and credible source doesn't think so least one of them is elite.

 

I'm sure the scouts for NFL teams are better at this than we are.

 

I'll trust the pros.

The line I quoted stated how he was better than other QBs over a series of several years.  Neither Rosen or Darnold are in that type of conversation.  They are not elite prospects.  They are simply good ones.  Just because they are listed as going number one and number two doesn't mean they are elite prospects.  We've seen this in years past where the need for QB drives the players up to the top.  On most lists, they are out of the top 5 in terms of prospects in this years class and some have them out of the top ten.  I don't see elite prospects when I watch them.  Again, doesn't mean they can't be great.  

[SouthNYfan]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

The line I quoted stated how he was better than other QBs over a series of several years.  Neither Rosen or Darnold are in that type of conversation.  They are not elite prospects.  They are simply good ones.  Just because they are listed as going number one and number two doesn't mean they are elite prospects.  We've seen this in years past where the need for QB drives the players up to the top.  On most lists, they are out of the top 5 in terms of prospects in this years class and some have them out of the top ten.  I don't see elite prospects when I watch them.  Again, doesn't mean they can't be great.  

 

What is your criteria for elite then?

I'm not quite sure what else they would have to do.

Both of them are elite prospects with probowl , franchise QB potential.

What more do you want?

[The Now Moment]

1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

What is your criteria for elite then?

I'm not quite sure what else they would have to do.

Both of them are elite prospects with probowl , franchise QB potential.

What more do you want?

What honestly makes them have pro bowl potential?  Sure they may be franchise QBs but will they be better than Just because they may be drafted in the first few picks doesn't mean they will be good at all.  You have to dive deeper than just where they are going to be selected.  They are very good players but they all have bigger question marks than QBs who I'd consider to be elite prospects.  They could be the next best thing but they aren't elite prospects based on what they did college in my opinion.  Darnold had a ton of turnovers this year and Rosen wasn't that accurate.  He had to throw the ball 40-50 times to get to the yards passing that he got.  He led his team to a wopping 6-7 this year.  He shows a lack of leadership and doesn't sound like a great teammate.  Does he honestly show a passion and a true competitive spirit?  He's been injured a few times in his career already and looks really thin especially considering he's got to play against even bigger faster players now.  He was absent in a few games.  To me, they aren't elite prospects.  They can turn out to be amazing but they aren't elite prospects.  I am not saying I wouldn't draft one but to say they are elite clean cut prospects is just not true IMO

[SouthNYfan]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

What honestly makes them have pro bowl potential?  Sure they may be franchise QBs but will they be better than Just because they may be drafted in the first few picks doesn't mean they will be good at all.  You have to dive deeper than just where they are going to be selected.  They are very good players but they all have bigger question marks than QBs who I'd consider to be elite prospects.  They could be the next best thing but they aren't elite prospects based on what they did college in my opinion.  Darnold had a ton of turnovers this year and Rosen wasn't that accurate.  He had to throw the ball 40-50 times to get to the yards passing that he got.  He led his team to a wopping 6-7 this year.  He shows a lack of leadership and doesn't sound like a great teammate.  Does he honestly show a passion and a true competitive spirit?  He's been injured a few times in his career already and looks really thin especially considering he's got to play against even bigger faster players now.  He was absent in a few games.  To me, they aren't elite prospects.  They can turn out to be amazing but they aren't elite prospects.  I am not saying I wouldn't draft one but to say they are elite clean cut prospects is just not true IMO

 

Did you consider Eli an elite prospect?

Other than Rosen throwing a little more often, their stats are pretty similar in college.

 

 

[KW95 - JA17]

I realize Glenn has been oft-injured and I don't know the severity of it.  Also, it seems like his weight is out of control. However, I will trust the process. IF Glenn is part of the " Stank " then they will get rid of him.

 

However, I have found that when he plays, the O-line gets better immediately.  I don't want to see him go is what Im saying....unless his locker room presence or attitude stinks of the me, me, me kind.

 

Cheers