Incognito update

[Doc]

43 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Look, RI never denied the accusation.  And players don't effusively apologize for "bad things" trash talk.  They never do.

 

He "hugged it out" (Richie's description, not Ngakoue's--who refused to comment on what the tow of them actually said) because he's moved on and understands RI for what he is: a guy who hasn't hesitated to spew racially charged statements and insult at his own team mate, let alone opposing players.

 

He was the bigger man. 

 

RI's failure to deny it and his unusual apology for "crazy" talk should convince anyone the what Ngakoue said was true. 

 

He never admitted he said anything racist either.  And no one else heard him say anything racist (yeah, he "had" Dawkins defend him, and apparently "had" several of YN's teammates defend him as well).  And you obviously missed it but as GG pointed out, YN acknowledged the "hug out," but so far has refused to repeat what it is RI said that was racist.  So the obvious conclusion is...RI definitely said something racist. 

[Rob's House]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

What is he apologizing for?  Players never apologize for straight up trash talk--it's always been part of the game.   Notice Richie didn't deny the accusation.  Instead he had a team mate deny it for him and  he allowed Beane to offer up a lame "maybe it was a misunderstanding".

 

And why isn't Ngakoue  publicly acknowledging RI's apololgy?

 

Why isn't he confirming "yeah, we worked it out.  It's all good now"?

 

My guess is he said something that was mildly offensive but probably doesn't rise to the level of anything people would think of as a racial slur, except for the ultra-vaginal SJW types that think Redskins is a slur.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

My guess is he said something that was mildly offensive but probably doesn't rise to the level of anything people would think of as a racial slur, except for the ultra-vaginal SJW types that think Redskins is a slur.

 

You mean like "disingenuous"?  No wait, that's a sexist word.

[Lfod]

I'll clue you in to something. The entire thing was fabrication to divide and conquer. The more you feed into it the more it controls you the easier you are to manipulate. 

 

Mostly everybody is parrots and puppets but a few can see beyond the stage, they can see the puppet master at work.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Lfod

[boyst]

10 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Im curious what some of the folks that were adamant he said nothing will say here... but I’m guessing it’ll be mostly silence with a few chirps about football being a mans game and anything goes.

I don't give a **** what he said. And I don't care what are he didn't say. My frustration and all of this is why people are so quick to jump sides without evidence and just a baseless accusation

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

What is he apologizing for?  Players never apologize for straight up trash talk--it's always been part of the game.   Notice Richie didn't deny the accusation.  Instead he had a team mate deny it for him and  he allowed Beane to offer up a lame "maybe it was a misunderstanding".

 

And why isn't Ngakoue  publicly acknowledging RI's apololgy?

 

Why isn't he confirming "yeah, we worked it out.  It's all good now"?

 

 

....maybe they make it a fineable offense and rake in another $10 mil a year.....typical..........

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

I'm not struggling with an allegation that I didn't make.    HE didn't force Dawkins to deny it, but he had it go on e record as the only public denial this happened.  So in effect, he had Dawkins deny it so he wouldn't have to and couldn't (and be truthful).

 

Dawkins did it to stick up for his teammate--who he knows harbors racist tendencies (that's not even debatable) and doesn't want to RI miss games as a player.

 

If it was a false accusation, Incognito would have said so right away and would have let the NFL tell the world there was no truth to the claim.  Boom.  Simple.  No drawn out mea culpa to Peter King describing a loving bro-fest between the two of them complete with hugging....while the other guy says essentially nothing about their dramatic make up session.

Look, if we're splitting hairs, I never said that you alleged RI forced Dawkins to do anything, so no need to thread that righteous indignation needle.  On the other hand, you seem to be implying that the comments Dawkins made were not 100% of his own volition, and were made to give RI needed cover from the comments made by Ngakoue..which can best be summarized as some weak yet unknown racist comment that Ngakoue could not or would not recall when questioned about it? 

 

While opining on RI and his character, you've painted a portrait of his teammate as a hapless yet honorable stooge manipulated (but not forced) into defending a person with racist tendencies (often referred to as a "racist") because they are...teammates?  To boot, he did it to protect a teammate with racist tendencies in exchange for consideration, said consideration in the form of RI not missing a game or games in some future year? 

 

We can agree that the whole man-hug thing is bro-festy.  but to suggest that you (or most) would write it all off as a big misunderstanding if RI had just forcefully said "N'uh uh I didn't!" is simply naïve.   

 

The two of them worked it out, so assuming the NFL moves on, that's all that really matters. 

 

 

 

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Fixed.

Yeah, it makes total sense that Richie said racist **** next to his black team mate.

 

Should we have a minimum IQ to post?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Well, that's easy.  Richie just told us that he said these bad things and he is apologizing for them publicly. 

 

If it "never happened", there would be no public comment and apology described by Richie himself.

 

Actually RI apologized for "his part in the situation" or words to that effect. 

Technically, he could apologize (maybe quite sincerely) for anything he said that was taken as racist or that offended Ngakoue without:

1) admitting to having said anything generally considered racist

2) admitting to having said whatever it was that Ngakoue heard and considered racist

 

I doubt the NFL lets it drop, but I'm quite sure Ngakoue most sincerely wants to move on - if for no other reason than because every OLman he goes up against is now gonna be looking that way for a road-map "how to get under NgaKoue's skin" (why he didn't want to repeat what he heard as said)

 

I do think more highly of Richie for it because in general, I think sometimes in this day and age people go to court and sue, when what they're really looking is for the person responsible for a situation to "man up" and offer an apology/amends - but the person responsible is afraid to reach out for fear of making their position in a lawsuit worse.  So salute! to RI for stepping outside those concerns  and taking initiative.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

He never admitted he said anything racist either.  And no one else heard him say anything racist (yeah, he "had" Dawkins defend him, and apparently "had" several of YN's teammates defend him as well).  And you obviously missed it but as GG pointed out, YN acknowledged the "hug out," but so far has refused to repeat what it is RI said that was racist.  So the obvious conclusion is...RI definitely said something racist. 

 

I'll make it even easier for you doc.  If you were accused in the workplace of saying something racist towards a colleague would you:

 

A) immediately deny it and, feeling confident in your innocence, simply wait for your employer to announce that you never made such comments?

 

or

 

B) never deny it, instead, have a friend and coworker say : "i never heard him say that"...and then, before your employer can comment on its findings,  announce to everyone that "It was a reminder how powerful our words can be. But it gets crazy out there. Real crazy. Things are said (int this workplace) that are never said outside of this workplace), never seen (outside of this workplace)" and that you hugged it out with your aggrieved co-worker, nothing more to see here!?

 

Tell us doc.

 

And while i'm making it easy for you, answer this very simple question:  the guy says racist comments were made.  If they were not to that extreme, then exactly what type of trash talking would prompt RI to make such a public apology?

 

2 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Look, if we're splitting hairs, I never said that you alleged RI forced Dawkins to do anything, so no need to thread that righteous indignation needle.  On the other hand, you seem to be implying that the comments Dawkins made were not 100% of his own volition, and were made to give RI needed cover from the comments made by Ngakoue..which can best be summarized as some weak yet unknown racist comment that Ngakoue could not or would not recall when questioned about it? 

 

While opining on RI and his character, you've painted a portrait of his teammate as a hapless yet honorable stooge manipulated (but not forced) into defending a person with racist tendencies (often referred to as a "racist") because they are...teammates?  To boot, he did it to protect a teammate with racist tendencies in exchange for consideration, said consideration in the form of RI not missing a game or games in some future year? 

 

We can agree that the whole man-hug thing is bro-festy.  but to suggest that you (or most) would write it all off as a big misunderstanding if RI had just forcefully said "N'uh uh I didn't!" is simply naïve.   

 

The two of them worked it out, so assuming the NFL moves on, that's all that really matters. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, again your making stuff up.  I never said he forced Dawkins nor did I say Dawkins was a hapless stooge.  I very clearly said he was simply covering foe a teammate with a troubled history so he didn't miss games.  

 

You're really just flailing now.

 

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

Yeah, it makes total sense that Richie said racist **** next to his black team mate.

 

Should we have a minimum IQ to post?

 

Look, I'm not going to question your intelligence with that post.  I'm going to do you a huge favor and just assume you were born after RI was cut from the Dolphins.

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

But...but....getting a pound of flesh from someone I've never met over something they may or may not have said to another person I've never met is what is critically important right now!!!

 

Truely bizarre how much energy people devote to certain inconsequential things.

 

 

 

Im not seeing a whole lot of flesh being taken

 

i am seeing a lot of twisting and turning to avoid acknowledging Ritchie likely messed up even after Ritchie publicly acknowledged he messed up without adding any caveats.

 

im still trying to figure out if its fear of losing the player from our team — or fear we may have said similar ourselves. I’ve not been perfect, and I don’t think we need to banish the guy... I think we can say “sounds like he probably made a racial comment and I’m not down for that”

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I'll make it even easier for you doc.  If you were accused in the workplace of saying something racist towards a colleague would you:

 

A) immediately deny it and, feeling confident in your innocence, simply wait for your employer to announce that you never made such comments?

 

or

 

B) never deny it, instead, have a friend and coworker say : "i never heard him say that"...and then, before your employer can comment on its findings,  announce to everyone that "It was a reminder how powerful our words can be. But it gets crazy out there. Real crazy. Things are said (int this workplace) that are never said outside of this workplace), never seen (outside of this workplace)" and that you hugged it out with your aggrieved co-worker, nothing more to see here!?

 

Tell us doc.

 

And while i'm making it easy for you, answer this very simple question:  the guy says racist comments were made.  If they were not to that extreme, then exactly what type of trash talking would prompt RI to make such a public apology?

 

Leh-nerd had you pegged above.  Beane publicly defended him when he said that it was all just a misunderstanding.  Where do you think he got that from?  I'll make it simple for you: from RI himself.  Now if RI had also publicly denied he said those things, you'd have claimed that it proves nothing since people lie, even in public (does "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" ring a bell?).  In the absence of it, now it means everything and others are covering for him, even Ngakoue's teammates.  I mean, how do you explain Calais Campbell, Marcell Dareus (granted a former teammate of RI's) and Abry Jones also saying they didn't hear anything racist?  Are they in on it as well?  Furthermore, what made Ngakoue so special that he got the "weak racist" treatment, and scores of other black defensive players haven't since RI came back to the NFL/to the Bills?

 

And where, pray tell, did RI say that racist comments were made?  I'll make that simple for you as well: he didn't.  And it was more of a non-apology apology, i.e. "I'm sorry he took offense to something he thought he heard me say so I offered him a hug."

 

So, when do you think the NFL's going to finally conclude this exhaustive investigation?  My guess is they let it die quietly because there's literally nothing to it except one guy's word against many, including his own teammates.

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Leh-nerd had you pegged above.  Beane publicly defended him when he said that it was all just a misunderstanding.  Where do you think he got that from?  I'll make it simple for you: from RI himself.  Now if RI had also publicly denied he said those things, you'd have claimed that it proves nothing since people lie, even in public (does "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" ring a bell?).  In the absence of it, now it means everything and others are covering for him, even Ngakoue's teammates.  I mean, how do you explain Calais Campbell, Marcell Dareus (granted a former teammate of RI's) and Abry Jones also saying they didn't hear anything racist?  Are they in on it as well?  Furthermore, what made Ngakoue so special that he got the "weak racist" treatment, and scores of other black defensive players haven't since RI came back to the NFL/to the Bills?

 

And where, pray tell, did RI say that racist comments were made?  I'll make that simple for you as well: he didn't.  And it was more of a non-apology apology, i.e. "I'm sorry he took offense to something he thought he heard me say so I offered him a hug."

 

So, when do you think the NFL's going to finally conclude this exhaustive investigation?  My guess is they let it die quietly because there's literally nothing to it except one guy's word against many, including his own teammates.

Is it that hard to believe that either:

 

A) some don’t care to get involved, or

B) simply didn’t hear it

 

Or are you picturing Ritchie screaming slurs at the top of his lungs at a quiet moment? 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Is it that hard to believe that either:

 

A) some don’t care to get involved, or

B) simply didn’t hear it

 

Or are you picturing Ritchie screaming slurs at the top of his lungs at a quiet moment? 

 

Is it that hard to believe that Ngakoue misheard something RI said?  Or do you picture RI whispering these sweet nothings in his ear?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

44 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'll make it even easier for you doc.  If you were accused in the workplace of saying something racist towards a colleague would you:

 

A) immediately deny it and, feeling confident in your innocence, simply wait for your employer to announce that you never made such comments?

 

or

 

B) never deny it, instead, have a friend and coworker say : "i never heard him say that"...and then, before your employer can comment on its findings,  announce to everyone that "It was a reminder how powerful our words can be. But it gets crazy out there. Real crazy. Things are said (int this workplace) that are never said outside of this workplace), never seen (outside of this workplace)" and that you hugged it out with your aggrieved co-worker, nothing more to see here!?

 

Tell us doc.

 

And while i'm making it easy for you, answer this very simple question:  the guy says racist comments were made.  If they were not to that extreme, then exactly what type of trash talking would prompt RI to make such a public apology?

 

 

No, again your making stuff up.  I never said he forced Dawkins nor did I say Dawkins was a hapless stooge.  I very clearly said he was simply covering foe a teammate with a troubled history so he didn't miss games.  

 

You're really just flailing now.

 

 

Look, I'm not going to question your intelligence with that post.  I'm going to do you a huge favor and just assume you were born after RI was cut from the Dolphins.

Your real challenge here is you fact-check your own statements based only on your perceptions on how people should act.  I understand that you believe EVERYONE should/would behave as you would in a given situation, but the world simply does not work like that.  I'l take it one step further....would you consider it possible that Richie Incognito might have acted differently to this type of allegation if he had never gone through the dolphins scandal? Could that experience and the fallout that came from it have caused him to stop, consider the interaction and realized that it made sense to try and address it personally, with the other guy? 

 

 

And and by the way, you did it again.  "Have a friend and co-worker say..." implies that you are imploring the friend and coworker to intercede on your behalf for your benefit and as you stated earlier, to keep him in the game.  I'd think Dawkins would probably find your comments insulting and presumptuous. 

 

 

[NoSaint]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Is it that hard to believe that Ngakoue misheard something RI said?  Or do you picture RI whispering these sweet nothings in his ear?

 

I do find that hard to believe as I think Ritchie would’ve said “oh man, this was a terrible misunderstanding and I hope that Yannik can trust that it was a mixup and no harm was meant” instead of “you say things out there that aren’t reflective of who you really are” (essentially- on my phone so not pulling verbatim) 

 

i likewise dont think its crazy that (especially in a loud stadium - road team on offense) that the two could’ve generally held conversation that others didn’t catch. Is the entire offense and defensive line bunched up at all times?

[Doc]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

I do find that hard to believe as I think Ritchie would’ve said “oh man, this was a terrible misunderstanding and I hope that Yannik can trust that it was a mixup and no harm was meant” instead of “you say things out there that aren’t reflective of who you really are” (essentially- on my phone so not pulling verbatim) 

 

i likewise dont think its crazy that (especially in a loud stadium - road team on offense) that the two could’ve generally held conversation that others didn’t catch. Is the entire offense and defensive line bunched up at all times?

 

RI said he tried to contact YN the day after the game.  And as I said he obviously spoke to Beane about what happened.  Like I said above, publicly stating you didn't do something doesn't mean anything because many people have lied publicly.

 

And yes they usually play games in loud stadiums.  Meaning things can be misheard as well as not heard.   

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

RI said he tried to contact YN the day after the game.  And as I said he obviously spoke to Beane about what happened.  Like I said above, publicly stating you didn't do something doesn't mean anything because many people have lied publicly.

 

And yes they usually play games in loud stadiums.  Meaning things can be misheard as well as not heard.   

 

Honest question: if Ritchie flat out said “man, I’m embarrassed for saying something racially charged” what would your reaction be?

 

you come across like it might be “yea but who knows what it really was, and what was he supposed to do- deny it? That’s exactly what a liar would do too!” 

 

Its ok to admit he probably messed up here. He’s done so and you won’t. That’s kind of strange on your part

Edited January 27, 2018 by NoSaint

[Doc]

Just now, NoSaint said:

Honest question: if Ritchie flat out said “man, I’m embarrassed for saying something racially charged” what would your reaction be?

 

I'd be disappointed.  And I'd want to know what he said and then let the league take it from there.  But even in the absence of him saying that, I'd like to hear Ngakoue say what he thought RI said. 

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I'd be disappointed.  And I'd want to know what he said and then let the league take it from there.  But even in the absence of him saying that, I'd like to hear Ngakoue say what he thought RI said. 

 

And if both decide to let water go under the bridge you’ll stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and yell you didn’t hear anything?

 

come on doc- forget this beyond a shadow of a doubt standard you are applying here.... based on the accusation, and apology, you have to acknowledge there’s a pretty good chance he said something racially inappropriate. I promise they won’t jail him if you acknowledge it’s not looking great...