Remind Me - Why Didn't We Make a Run at Nick Foles?

[grb]

14 hours ago, cba fan said:

Foles is:

 

Foles Gold.

 

Don't fall for it. He literally had one good game all season.

 

A little wit amongst all the invective, grumpiness and sniping.

Good job, sir!

[26CornerBlitz]

2 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I'm noticing that 26CB and I are the ones most on the "pump the breaks on Nick Foles" train, and I am pretty sure that we have watched more of him than 90% of the people on here. I live in the Philly market. My wife is a die hard Eagles fan.

 

People are looking at the last two games, and are ignoring the rest of his career. Not that I'm going to slag on him. He is what he is: a high level backup/low level bridge starter.

 

I was there to watch him when he stepped in for the last few weeks of the season, and let me tell you, Eagles fans were terrified. Pederson gave him a very vanilla offense in his first few weeks back, and he looked mediocre to terrible. In the meanwhile, they began to gameplan around his strength and weaknesses and unveiled a new Run Pass Option to play to his strengths and give him a bit more time. He also has the benefit of a solid O-line, a solid run game in Blount and Ajayi, and gets to throw to a receiving group that looked at Jordan Matthews and said "ehh, he's expendable"

 

When he has a system he is clicking in, and high level support around him he looks pretty good. He has a few fantastic games, and rarely looks dreadful. When he has less talent and in a system that is not clicking (as in the 2014 Eagles season) he looks mediocre. When he has Jeff Fisher running the offense, he looks dreadful. Now, for the important part:  I could replace  2014 Eagles with 2017 Bills with 2017 and Jeff Fisher with Rick Dennison, and TT would absolutely apply.

 

 

 

I have seen plenty of Nick Foles' career living in the Philly area and have had the opportunity to discuss him at length with Eagles' fans.  I concur with your assessment which shouldn't come as a surprise based on my previous posts in this thread. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I have seen plenty of Nick Foles' career living in the Philly area and having the opportunity to discuss him at length with Eagles' fans.  I concur with your assessment which shouldn't come as a surprise based on my previous posts in this thread. 

 

Yeah. I remember Philly fans going 12 rounds about Foles: whether he was as good as 27:2, whether they should dump him and chase Mariota, is Bradford better than Foles?

 

But I heard real doom and gloom over the last month. I will concede that he really turned it on last night, but everything I was hearing was about how they would approach Atlanta: don't ignore the run game (like Reid always does), set up play action, take points where you can get them and keep Atlanta off the field and out of the end zone. It was a winning formula.

[Tatonka68]

Because he sucks.

[BillsFan130]

He was pretty bad the last few years.

 

He is playing extremely well, but keep in mind he’s in a very friendly QB system with Doug Pederson

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Because he needs a strong team around him to be competent.

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

17 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

Rams gave it a shot and we saw how well that turned out. That 7 touchdown extravaganza is long gone, even with as well as he is playing today. 

 

Rams were a train wreck when he was there under one of the worst coach in NFL history and maybe the worst ever when it comes to developing a QB. It's hard to say Foles doesn't have what it takes to succeed at this point. He had a season where he through what 27 TDs and 2 INTs? A 7 TD game? You don't get to those numbers by accident or luck. Now combine those numbers with how well he has looked in place of Wentz and I got to believe Foles will be a guy more than a couple teams might try to trade for.

17 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Problem is, it's too late now. The Eagles have him for certain for at least one more year, and with Wentz's recovery timetable uncertain, no way he's going anywhere. It just kills me to watch a team with a better backup than our starter.

 

Money talks, or in this case, draft picks talk. Wentz tore his ACL. He'll be fine come the start of the next year. This isn't a Andre Luck situation. Offer enough and the Eagles would give him up.

[since79]

Foles wanted to retire prior to this year.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nick-foles-says-he-had-no-love-for-the-game-and-wanted-to-retire-from-the-nfl/

 

Foles knew Pederson from his last stint in Philly and that is why he decided to play there.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

No he won't. BECAUSE HE'S NOT A FREE AGENT.  I noted that in my initial post. This isn't a "we should sign Nick Foles" thread. It's not a "Nick Foles may be more Rich Gannon than Jeff Hostetler" thread. It's a "why didn't we sign the at-least-as-good (probably better)-than-Tyrod guy" given that he came cheaper and he would clearly have been a better fit in the Dennison scheme. As for next year: there's a very good chance Wentz won't be ready to go at the start of the season, or certainly in the preseason. Foles isn't going anywhere. We missed our chance on that one.

 

*nods* This is exactly my "beef" with McDermott on personnel.  He did NOT have to roll with Tyrod.  There were FA options - Foles.  Case Keenum.  No, these guys are not "Magical Franchise Man" but they could have been signed to a 2 year contract with incentives while we sorted out the draft, they might have welcomed to come here as the starter instead of signing a 1 yr as backup, and they would have both been better choices to work in Dennison's system.

 

Agree on Foles.  The Eagles, since 2015, have repeatedly shown that they are willing to go "All In!" to get a QB and to improve at QB.  (So have the Vikings, for that matter).  They will do what it takes to keep Foles through training camp and preseason.  If Wentz looks ready to go, they might look for a Bradford - a chance to deal him to a team that has just had disaster at QB.

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, since79 said:

Foles wanted to retire prior to this year.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nick-foles-says-he-had-no-love-for-the-game-and-wanted-to-retire-from-the-nfl/

 

Foles knew Pederson from his last stint in Philly and that is why he decided to play there.

 

Partly true.

 

Foles considered retiring after 2015, his terrible, very bad, no good year with the Rams.  Instead, he asked for his release in July, then signed with the Chiefs under Andy Reid, who was the coach who drafted Foles during his time in Philly. 

Pederson was the QB coach in Philly when Foles was drafted, then OC in KC (but left to become Eagles HC before Foles signed), but knowing and liking Pederson may have been a factor in Foles returning to Philly.  I think (but don't know) he felt renewed at that point and would have considered other offers that included the chance to start.

[The Frankish Reich]

6 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This is simply not the case.  He was outstanding yesterday, but before then he had not been good at all other than his 1st start against the lousy NYG defense.. 

OK. you officially have Folesophobia. Or maybe Tyrodomania. So let’s ask the next diagnostic question:  you are an NFL GM. You need a veteran QB. Assume both Foles and Tyrod are available as unrestricted free agents, and assume their respective agents have signaled that they will both sign 2 year deals on equivalent financial terms. Assume all other things are equal (you can factor in injury risk if you’d like, but no fair speculating that either one may have a hidden injury right now; assume both will be healthy at the time of signing). These are the only two choices. No “I’d draft someone/I’d trade for Alex Smith” responses allowed. 

Which one do you sign?

A. Foles

B. Tyrod

And please justify your choice. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

OK. you officially have Folesophobia. Or maybe Tyrodomania. So let’s ask the next diagnostic question:  you are an NFL GM. You need a veteran QB. Assume both Foles and Tyrod are available as unrestricted free agents, and assume their respective agents have signaled that they will both sign 2 year deals on equivalent financial terms. Assume all other things are equal (you can factor in injury risk if you’d like, but no fair speculating that either one may have a hidden injury right now; assume both will be healthy at the time of signing). These are the only two choices. No “I’d draft someone/I’d trade for Alex Smith” responses allowed. 

Which one do you sign?

A. Foles

B. Tyrod

And please justify your choice. 

 

 No. I have officially watched Foles play quite a bit and I am not impressed with his career overall.  Which one do I sign? Neither! I have stated what I would do in many threads and feel no need to repeat myself again. 

[The Frankish Reich]

10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 No. I have officially watched Foles play quite a bit and I am not impressed with his career overall.  Which one do I sign? Neither! I have stated what I would do in many threads and feel no need to repeat myself again. 

Just for fun - binary choice. Which one?

This is getting like trying to pin a politician down only to have him revert to his memorized talking points ... 

Edited January 22, 2018 by The Frankish Reich

[26CornerBlitz]

9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Just for fun - binary choice. Which one??

 

Not playing in your binary false choice sandbox. Neither is good enough to be the starting QB of any team that I would be the GM of and I'd simply look elsewhere.

Edited January 22, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Not playing is your false choice sandbox. Neither is good enough to be the starting QB of any team that I would be the GM of and I'd simply look elsewhere.

OK. I give up. You probably said the same thing about Trump-Clinton and refused to even go all Gary Johnson on us. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

OK. I give up. You probably said the same thing about Trump-Clinton and refused to even go all Gary Johnson on us. 

 

Nick Foles or is it Folds? Stay enamored my friend.  

[Jauronimo]

We did go after Foles when he was still called Kevin Kolb.  We signed him and he was really good until he EJ started watering the mats.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

32 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

OK. you officially have Folesophobia. Or maybe Tyrodomania. So let’s ask the next diagnostic question:  you are an NFL GM. You need a veteran QB. Assume both Foles and Tyrod are available as unrestricted free agents, and assume their respective agents have signaled that they will both sign 2 year deals on equivalent financial terms. Assume all other things are equal (you can factor in injury risk if you’d like, but no fair speculating that either one may have a hidden injury right now; assume both will be healthy at the time of signing). These are the only two choices. No “I’d draft someone/I’d trade for Alex Smith” responses allowed. 

Which one do you sign?

A. Foles

B. Tyrod

And please justify your choice. 

 

Dude. What 26CB and I are telling you is that we watched him. I watched him through his magic 2013 year, his mediocre until hurt 2014 year, saw him get benched in STL, really suck in the 2017 regular season, play an ok game vs Atlanta and one brilliant game vs. the Vikings.

 

On average, he is a solid backup/mediocre starter. It's a toss up to me between him for Tyrod. He is a better pocket passes overall, but he really hits the skids for longer stretches and has no legs. I have seen him suck more and soar higher. Plop him in during the Roman and Lynn years, he is far worse than Tyrod. But him in with Rico and give both him and Tyrod Sammy, I think Foles wins. But let's not pretend that we have an all-Pro who was lying in the dirt. He's playing decent QB play with arguably the best O-line in the game, a bevy of receivers and a decent run game.

 

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

I want to clarify some history here - and keep in my mind I'm on record for giving Doug Whaley credit for some really good finds but also failing in other areas as well so to me a balanced and reasoned approach to his tenure - but Buddy nix is responsible for:

Gilmore, Dareus, Bradham, and Hogan was signed in 2012 while Buddy was still the GM and Whaley probably had a huge influence on that since he was the Pro Personnel Scout, but Nix was still ultimately responsible for all things personnel related so you have to give him at least equal credit. Darby is solely Whaley as was Watkins, but so was his enormous gift of Draft capital to get him....to me EJ is attributed primarly to Nix - and again I've gone on record several times saying so - but Whaley shares that because while Nix was the GM for the 2013 Draft and therefore it is HIS responsibility to make those picks ultimately, I'm also sure since Whaley was promoted less than a month later, Whaley had a pretty huge stake in that argument as well. 

 

To keep in mind Eric Wood, Cordy Glenn and Aaron Williams were also Nix's picks, not to mention Searcy who was starting for the Titans just last week against NE. There are others, I just wanted to put some context to the DW love....again, so you don't misinterpret my statements (unintentionally) that I think DW was great in some respects, ala Pro Scouting, but really NOT good in others, Watkins Draft capital - EJ Manuel (even though it technically belongs to Nix). He Drafted Darby - well done! - Kevon Seymour, signing Richie and Drafting Preston Brown who has had a yo-yo career with the Bills thus far and signing Zack Brown who was terrific in his one year here. All said and done, DW was a .500 level GM and the results on the field were exactly that....although Sexy Rexy had much to do with that too....ugh!!

 

Whaley should have told Rex to put 11 guys out there on D

 

When I replied I wasn't 100% sure who Whaley drafted or acquired.  But I think my comments are still valid. Doug was the GM.  He was in charge of the roster.  All of these guys that were still playing Sunday were on his roster and were since jettisoned by the new regime.

 

Sammy would no doubt have helped our offense this year even if he only played in 1/2 the games.  When Mr. Big Stuff left our run D when in the tank and Jacksonville's got better.  

 

Whatever on the contract stuff.  You get what you pay for. Quality players cost more.  You win with great players.  

 

He was our GM in our first winning season in 10 years. Doug left the Bills in a whole lot better shape personnel wise than he found them.  I give him credit for that.

 

[billieve420]

17 hours ago, Tcali said:

TT-- a great guy--...I am happy he is a multimillionaire.Because he got screwed over by dumb coaches in this league trying to make him into something he wasnt.

Someone could have designed a college type offense for him.Everything they tried to drum into him was unnatural to him. You cant learn how to play an entirely different game of football at 24 yrs old.-He had to think about everything.Nothing was natural.

Guy shoulda been running 10-12 times per game.-And had the defense so keyed on him that it woulda opened up lots of WRs on routes and big holes for RBs.

 

 

Agreed read option should have been the staple of our offense. Instead coaches saw fit to have him drop 3 steps make quick reads and get rid of the ball. Reason why I have no qualms with firing Dennison. Tyrod was the best option on the team this past season and they completely neutralized him rendering him useless.

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by billieve420