Domdab99 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Heitz said: Pretty sure that Foels has played more games than the ONE good game RJ had before the Bills bet the farm on him not many. The guy is not someone to spend a 2nd round pick on, or a lot of money. Don't buy high.
reddogblitz Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: If the Bills were to pay a premium for Nick Foles because of the last couple of games, that would be the most Billsy thing of all. Remember Rob Johnson? I remember Rob Johnson very well. I still have my RJ jersey. What I don't remember is when he threw 27 TDs and 2 ints in one season or when he was the man under in 2 playoff wins. I do remember one playoff game he played in however ...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 You do realize that Foles had just one good game this year, right? Are we gonna go all Rob Johnson over him? 1
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 14 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: I love how all of a sudden Pederson is an offensive genius and Dennison is a total failure at life. Dennison has had no success? Well, how about: - the #2 ranked passing offense in 2008 (Denver/Cutler) - the #3 ranked passing offense in 2010 (Houston/Schaub) Pederson's best ranking passing offense ever? 24th (KC/2013). I was no Dennison fan, and I think it was absolute idiocy to bring him in to try to force the player (Tyrod) to fit the scheme rather than the other way around. But it's not like he was some kind of complete failure as an offensive coordinator, or that Pederson (who somehow managed never to get the best out of Alex Smith) was a hidden genius. Talk about hindsight ... Except Frank Reich is the Offensive Coordinator... but under the offensive minded Doug Pederson... Dennison was the sole play caller and Broncos fans complained a lot about him, too. And Foles has kinda been able to follow Pederson and his offensive system around the league so it's something he's really comfortable with, which is hugely important. There were actually reports of Foles retiring in the last year or so. Good for Foles being in a system he's comfortable in and can thrive in (although it's funny how much people are raving over one game where he put up a ton of garbage time stats) and I hope to hell he and the Eagles can find a way to beat the Patriots. But Foles is still not a QB you go out to pursue... unless you have a history with him and run a system he's really comfortable in, ala Pederson and the Eagles. Let's just all hope whoever is under center this year can be immediately successful in Dabol's QB friendly system. He's a guy who seems ready and willing to adjust to what he has... whoever that may be. He's hopefully not a stubborn dinosaur like Dennison. 1
The Frankish Reich Posted January 24, 2018 Author Posted January 24, 2018 35 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Except Frank Reich is the Offensive Coordinator... but under the offensive minded Doug Pederson... Dennison was the sole play caller and Broncos fans complained a lot about him, too. And Foles has kinda been able to follow Pederson and his offensive system around the league so it's something he's really comfortable with, which is hugely important. There were actually reports of Foles retiring in the last year or so. Good for Foles being in a system he's comfortable in and can thrive in (although it's funny how much people are raving over one game where he put up a ton of garbage time stats) and I hope to hell he and the Eagles can find a way to beat the Patriots. But Foles is still not a QB you go out to pursue... unless you have a history with him and run a system he's really comfortable in, ala Pederson and the Eagles. Let's just all hope whoever is under center this year can be immediately successful in Dabol's QB friendly system. He's a guy who seems ready and willing to adjust to what he has... whoever that may be. He's hopefully not a stubborn dinosaur like Dennison. Finally something we agree on. Dennision has had his successes, and he probably could still succeed with the right QB somewhere. (Maybe he could've succeeded with Nick Foles, the Original Nate Peterman.) But the idea that he could transform Tyrod into something he'll never be was nuts.
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Finally something we agree on. Dennision has had his successes, and he probably could still succeed with the right QB somewhere. (Maybe he could've succeeded with Nick Foles, the Original Nate Peterman.) But the idea that he could transform Tyrod into something he'll never be was nuts. I don't know we agree entirely. I don't think Dennison has ever really had his successes. Kubiak was always the play caller, not Dennison. Those years you cited about top 10 passing offenses for Dennison were offenses being called by Kubiak, and everyone knew that... it was public. The last couple years Dennison was in Denver was when he got more play calling responsibilities and the last couple years Denver was bleh on offense. And Peterman being successful under Dennison?!?! Good God I hope we never have to see Peterman take another meaningful snap in a Bills uniform.
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 On 1/22/2018 at 4:45 AM, BadLandsMeanie said: I know what you mean. But it is not all that funny to me. I wil tell you why. Because We always INSIST that players who do NOT play well, are actually really great! Like Tyrod. Trod is good but his supporting cast and his coaching are bad. But when Foles plays well... it means he is not good. Also, Bills fans always want to improve the team by getting rid of the best players. We have two good offensive linemen. Wood and Incognito. Hands down they play the best. There is no competent argument or opinion other wise. But we want them gone to save money and get younger. Anyway your hilarity isn't as one sided as you think! And Foles is by no means top notch, but he is as the OP said, better than our starter. The Eagles have two good QBs. The Eagles lost their starter, but then still demolished the Vikings and will play in the Superbowl. The Vikings lost their starter and still made the conference championship game. Both those teams have a starter and a backup who are better than anyone we have had play QB for at least the past ten years. I don't think that is funny! BLM... this is going to be a long offseason and I'm already tired. You're worried about talent more. I'm worried about coaching staff more. https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/195955-why-are-you-so-sure-we-arent-a-playoff-team/ In this thread I started before the year I started because I felt really good about McDermott. It looked like the culture change we waited almost 2 decades for. And he brought it because we made the playoffs with minimal talent compared to the other playoff teams. The Patriots prove it's about system and process and more players buying in than talent year after year after year after year. You look despairingly at other teams and QBs on those teams as though it would have been an apples to apples transition from those teams (like Keenum with the Vikes and Foles with the Eagles) to the Buffalo Bills with Rick Dennison as OC. These conversations are pointless and sometimes just flat out ridiculous because assuming ANY QB would have looked competent for an OC who called plays so often predictable that they complained about him in Denver and in his one year in Buffalo he drove the #1 rushing attack in the NFL into the ground from the last 2 years as we gained almost 40 yards less per game on the ground in 2017 from 2016 and in 2017 we led the league in runs by an RB of 0 yards or less!!! What I pray for is Dabol being the next offensive genius more than anything because if he is, he will elevate our QB, no matter who it is, along with our entire offense.
BadLandsMeanie Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: BLM... this is going to be a long offseason and I'm already tired. You're worried about talent more. I'm worried about coaching staff more. https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/195955-why-are-you-so-sure-we-arent-a-playoff-team/ In this thread I started before the year I started because I felt really good about McDermott. It looked like the culture change we waited almost 2 decades for. And he brought it because we made the playoffs with minimal talent compared to the other playoff teams. The Patriots prove it's about system and process and more players buying in than talent year after year after year after year. You look despairingly at other teams and QBs on those teams as though it would have been an apples to apples transition from those teams (like Keenum with the Vikes and Foles with the Eagles) to the Buffalo Bills with Rick Dennison as OC. These conversations are pointless and sometimes just flat out ridiculous because assuming ANY QB would have looked competent for an OC who called plays so often predictable that they complained about him in Denver and in his one year in Buffalo he drove the #1 rushing attack in the NFL into the ground from the last 2 years as we gained almost 40 yards less per game on the ground in 2017 from 2016 and in 2017 we led the league in runs by an RB of 0 yards or less!!! What I pray for is Dabol being the next offensive genius more than anything because if he is, he will elevate our QB, no matter who it is, along with our entire offense. Fair enough. That makes good sense. But for my part, there are a fair amount of games during a season, and in the post season, that do not go according to plan. Which means you can get behind. For 20 years now and especially lately, every time we get into a shootout, I know we are going to lose. I want a QB who can pass the football real bad. Topic for another thread is, Bill Belichick would be the success he has been without Tom Brady, only in his mind. Tom Brady makes a difference. Bill Belichick's defenses, football master that he is, get way behind sometimes. It is the offense with Tom Brady that gets him out of it. So, if Bill Belichick, a defensive coach, is a supreme genius, it shows up mostly on the Offensive side of the ball for some reason. By the way I know what you mean about already being tired. Weird year. Edited January 24, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie
Thurman#1 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, reddogblitz said: Russell Wilson passed for 93 yards on Christmas Eve in Dallas. Difference being in those two games, Tyrod had identical stat lines for completions, TDs and INTs. In both of those games he went 9 for 18, 0 TDs and 1 INT. Wilson that game completed 2/3 of his passes, 14/21, and had 2 TDs and 0 INTs. Bit of a difference there. beyond the difference between 93 for Wilson in ONE game and Taylor's TWO games of 56 and 65 yards. You can also see how Wilson's passer rating in that game, 107.8, looks a bit better than those two games for Tyrod of 33.6 and 35.6. Just saying. I do agree with what Whitewalker is saying, that both are fine backups and fringe starters. I'd argue Foles is better, though and would have been cheaper. Not that I was jumping on the table for him. But for Foles' bad year in STL, it was still his fourth year in the league, and he was in a new system. He appears to have improved since then. Edited January 24, 2018 by Thurman#1
transplantbillsfan Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Fair enough. That makes good sense. But for my part, there are a fair amount of games during a season, and in the post season, that do not go according to plan. Which means you can get behind. For 20 years now and especially lately, every time we get into a shootout, I know we are going to lose. I want a QB who can pass the football real bad. Topic for another thread is, Bill Belichick would be the success he has been without Tom Brady, only in his mind. Tom Brady makes a difference. Bill Belichick's defenses, football master that he is, get way behind sometimes. It is the offense with Tom Brady that gets him out of it. So, if Bill Belichick, a defensive coach, is a supreme genius, it shows up mostly on the Offensive side of the ball for some reason. By the way I know what you mean about already being tired. Weird year. I realize this is a discussion for another thread, but I disagree. I believe Bellicheck is significantly more important than Brady. I also think Brady and a lot of his offensive success and even comebacks are the result of coaching and situational awareness on Bellicheck's part. Tried to leave that as a minimal statement there 1
reddogblitz Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 2 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Bill Belichick would be the success he has been without Tom Brady, only in his mind. Tom Brady makes a difference. Bill Belichick's defenses, football master that he is, get way behind sometimes. It is the offense with Tom Brady that gets him out of it. So, if Bill Belichick, a defensive coach, is a supreme genius, it shows up mostly on the Offensive side of the ball for some reason. A couple of points. In the Tommy era, the Cheaters** have gone 13-6 with Matt Classel, Jimmy G, and Jacoby Brisset at QB. Just because a coach starts out as a defensive coach does not mean he doesn't know offense too. Tom Landry was a defensive back/defensive coordinator for the NY Giants before getting the Dallas job. He was known primarily as an offensive genius in Dallas. He brought such offensive new tactics to the game still used today like the shotgun and putting players in motion before the snap for example. His offenses were innovative and dominant during the 20 straight winning seasons. 1
BadLandsMeanie Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 5 hours ago, reddogblitz said: A couple of points. In the Tommy era, the Cheaters** have gone 13-6 with Matt Classel, Jimmy G, and Jacoby Brisset at QB. Just because a coach starts out as a defensive coach does not mean he doesn't know offense too. Tom Landry was a defensive back/defensive coordinator for the NY Giants before getting the Dallas job. He was known primarily as an offensive genius in Dallas. He brought such offensive new tactics to the game still used today like the shotgun and putting players in motion before the snap for example. His offenses were innovative and dominant during the 20 straight winning seasons. This is a raw nerve for me, so please forgive. Yes the Pats have done ok when Brady has not been able to go. But that Pats have also been proactive about that, by drafting and grooming quarterbacks. That way they are ready when they need to be. So you can see that in a sense, the way the Patriots emphasize the importance of the Qb spot shows that they understand that coaching can only take you so far. In contract with the Buffalo Bills. The Buffalo Bills have been impossibly stupid when it comes to that. Year after year, they had been unable to learn. The most very basic concept, that every schoolboy knows, which is that the QB is very important, the front office brass of the Buffalo Bills have been too moronic, too idiotic, too arrogant, too busy infighting to learn. They have instead rarely drafted a QB, because they have been empty headed drooling cretins of the very worst sort, which is the type of jackass imbecile who thinks he is smart. Ok so yeah I have a raw nerve about that. Anyway maybe we will find out eventually how BC does with Brady, if Brady turns out not to be an immortal blood sucking vampire, which I am beginning to think he is. He has the personality for it.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 7 reasons Nick Foles will be the Bills' starting QB in 2018 By Ryan Talbot | Contributing writer Nick Foles is preparing to start in Super Bowl LII with the Philadelphia Eagles, but the game could be his last outing with the team. Foles isn't Philadelphia's long-term answer at QB and the team may look to move Foles in a trade this offseason. Could the Buffalo Bills swing a deal for the veteran? Here's a look at 7 reasons why Foles will be the Bills' starting QB in 2018.Philadelphia already has franchise QB ( Not really. They might bench Wentz for him. ) Eagles also have young backup Won't cost as much as Alex Smith in trade Bills wouldn't be tied to Foles long-term Quarterback would still be in play during draft Move would appease LeSean McCoy Sean McDermott can do his due-diligence on Foles
The Frankish Reich Posted January 27, 2018 Author Posted January 27, 2018 5 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: 7 reasons Nick Foles will be the Bills' starting QB in 2018 By Ryan Talbot | Contributing writer Nick Foles is preparing to start in Super Bowl LII with the Philadelphia Eagles, but the game could be his last outing with the team. Foles isn't Philadelphia's long-term answer at QB and the team may look to move Foles in a trade this offseason. Could the Buffalo Bills swing a deal for the veteran? Here's a look at 7 reasons why Foles will be the Bills' starting QB in 2018.Philadelphia already has franchise QB ( Not really. They might bench Wentz for him. ) Eagles also have young backup Won't cost as much as Alex Smith in trade Bills wouldn't be tied to Foles long-term Quarterback would still be in play during draft Move would appease LeSean McCoy Sean McDermott can do his due-diligence on Foles I wish, but ... this is a really stupid article. Wentz suffered a very serious knee injury. Here's Dr. David Chao on Wentz's prognosis: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/profootballdoc/sd-sp-pfd-carson-wentz-knee-lcl-acl-0126-story.html Most likely, Wentz had a primary repair where the lateral collateral ligament was sewn back together (which speeds recovery) versus needing a graft. That type of repair is more common in LCL tears, as opposed to the ACL, which almost always requires reconstruction with a graft. At this point, it is still reasonable to hope Wentz can be ready by Week 1. If that happens, he will almost certainly be limited to being a pocket quarterback. However, there is no guarantee Wentz will even be ready to take the field by then. Having a second (of four) main ligament torn in the knee does add complication to the recovery. And recovery for two ligaments is more arduous than for one. This is why he needed a long locked brace for six weeks. No way the NFC champs (and I hope SB champs) are going to deal Foles - he remains quite affordable for 2018 (that's why I started this thread; he is getting backup money, something all the Foles haters seem to be forgetting), and we won't really know the full status of Wentz's knee until after the start of the regular season. Can he still run the way he used to? Will it hold up? etc, etc. Again, we missed the boat on this one ... [cue the tedious "You idiot, Foles is a career backup" responses, as if we have something better in a Bills uniform ...]
26CornerBlitz Posted January 27, 2018 Posted January 27, 2018 Where will Foles play in '18? Landing spots ranked From the Broncos to the Jets to the Redskins, we rank hypothetical suitors for the Eagles QB Journeyman quarterback Nick Foles will start for the Eagles in the Super Bowl, but he's not the Eagles' long-term starting quarterback. The job still belongs to Carson Wentz, who played like an MVP before tearing his ACL in December and will rightfully regain his job as soon as he's healthy. And that means Foles could be eyed by any one of the quarterback-needy teams in the offseason as their new starting quarterback. Foles will be under contract with the Eagles in 2018 for the cost of just $7.6 million, according to Spotrac. So, if the Eagles decide they want a proven backup quarterback on their roster while Wentz recovers from a serious injury, they can keep him around. But if Foles lights up the Patriots, he might draw significant interest on the trade market. 6. Buffalo Bills Why it could happen: The Bills continually refuse to commit to Tyrod Taylor as their long-term quarterback. In the middle of a playoff race and facing the Chargers on the road, they benched him for fifth-round rookie Nathan Peterman. At the Senior Bowl, coach Sean McDermott refused to comment on the situation. "I'm not going to get into Tyrod's future," McDermott said, per NewYorkUpstate.com. "Like I mentioned earlier, we're still going through our evaluation. Those decisions will come at some point down the road here." La Canfora predicted that the Bills will trade Taylor to the Broncos. If they cut Taylor, they'll save nearly $10 million in cap space, according to Spotrac. The Bills also have an extra fifth-round pick that could be used as a trade chip. If the Bills do jettison Taylor, they might be in the market for a rookie quarterback, but they won't make their first selection until No. 21, which makes it difficult to find a quarterback they can play immediately. Trading for one might be their only move at that point. Why it won't happen: The Bills probably shouldn't be giving up draft ammunition for a quarterback who wouldn't even be an upgrade over Taylor. They have too many holes on their roster to be doing that. At this point, draft picks are more valuable to them than a borderline replacement-level quarterback.
reddogblitz Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 Why would any team with a gimpy starting QB trade away a backup QB they can win in the playoffs with? Just dumb. Would be like the Bills trading away Frank in 1992.
Rob's House Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 On 1/23/2018 at 2:18 PM, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: He will act when utter confusion when he finds out that even with Tyrod's worst games this year, he was still better than Nick Foles in St. Louis Todd Gurley sucked in that offense too. This is not a strong argument you're making.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 9 hours ago, Rob's House said: Todd Gurley sucked in that offense too. This is not a strong argument you're making. No one is accusing Jeff Fisher of offensive brilliance. In fact, it DOES play into my argument. I suggested the crazy notion that scheme, playcalling and the talent around a QB has a stark impact on their play. Uninspired offense and playcalling: bad Playcalling that tries to focus on what you want to do as an OC rather than what your players are good at: bad Modifying your scheme to get the most out of a QB who has his warts: success
SoTier Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 On 1/24/2018 at 8:31 AM, BadLandsMeanie said: This is a raw nerve for me, so please forgive. Yes the Pats have done ok when Brady has not been able to go. But that Pats have also been proactive about that, by drafting and grooming quarterbacks. That way they are ready when they need to be. So you can see that in a sense, the way the Patriots emphasize the importance of the Qb spot shows that they understand that coaching can only take you so far. In contract with the Buffalo Bills. The Buffalo Bills have been impossibly stupid when it comes to that. Year after year, they had been unable to learn. The most very basic concept, that every schoolboy knows, which is that the QB is very important, the front office brass of the Buffalo Bills have been too moronic, too idiotic, too arrogant, too busy infighting to learn. They have instead rarely drafted a QB, because they have been empty headed drooling cretins of the very worst sort, which is the type of jackass imbecile who thinks he is smart. Ok so yeah I have a raw nerve about that. Anyway maybe we will find out eventually how BC does with Brady, if Brady turns out not to be an immortal blood sucking vampire, which I am beginning to think he is. He has the personality for it. How, exactly, have the Patriots been "proactive" in "drafting and grooming quarterbacks"? Since Belichick came to NE, he's only drafted backup QBs with the possible exception of Garoppolo. You're confusing the horsehoe Belichick had up his ass when he made Tom Brady the Patriots' sixth round pick in the 2000 draft with prescience. Matt Cassel was a sixth rounder, too. Brian Hoyer was an UDFA. Jacoby Brissette was a fourth rounder. Garoppolo was a second rounder, but you can count the number of second rounders who have developed into franchise QBs in the last two decades on the fingers of one hand and have digits left over. Neither Cassel nor Hoyer played as well for any other teams as they did for NE. Brisette isn't going to make Indy trade Andrew Luck even if his health was guaranteed. As for Garoppolo, he has indeed looked really good in his short time starting in SF but Osweiler looked good for most of the season when he subbed for Peyton, so the jury is still out on just how good he might be IMO. Over the years the Patriots have drafted other backup QBs, including third rounder Ryan Mallett, but none of them has been any better than the scrubs that the Bills have drafted over the years. The Patriots have been better at finding QBs that fit their system, judging QB talent, and putting their QBs in positions to succeed if they get on the field. That Patriots' backup QBs have done well when asked to perform in place of Brady over the years but have failed to find any success as starters only supports the idea that it's coaching and the system that accounts for it rather than any formula or process for "drafting and grooming quarterbacks".
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 7:17 PM, The Frankish Reich said: Problem is, it's too late now. The Eagles have him for certain for at least one more year, and with Wentz's recovery timetable uncertain, no way he's going anywhere. It just kills me to watch a team with a better backup than our starter. Their are a lot of teams with backups better than Taylor. I remember getting shredded for saying We have the 5th best QB in our division and listed. 1. Brady 2. Tannehill 3. Fitz 4. Jimmy G 5. Taylor
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