Alphadawg7 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) For a long time I felt like Baker Mayfield was going to be a Bill next year, long before many were on that train. Got flamed a lot saying he wouldn't go until the 2nd or 3rd round. Funny thing happened along the way...Baker shut everyone up and proved he is a lock for the first round barring some incident or injury, and Bills had a winning season and wound up with a much lower draft pick than expected. Now to get Baker, its going to cost to move up, and probably cost more than Beane would consider spending, especially the way he covets picks and the depth of QB in this draft. I honestly do not expect a big move up for a QB in this draft because its going to be expensive with all the QB needy teams in the top 12, which is probably the min you need to get to this year to get any of the top 4 guys. Instead I could see us making a modest move if someone they like slips out of the top 12 or even a small trade up to get a stud defender they might covet like Roquan or something. So where does that leave the Bills options at QB...well guys like Mason, Falk, and of course Jackson are the obvious ones to look at. I still strongly feel that making a play for Cousins, if he is available, would be the best move so we can focus the draft picks on other players. But we dont know if Cousins is available, and there will be stiff competition for his services with better weather to play in than Buffalo, so not sure he would even choose the Bills if he was an option. So, I started watching a lot of footage of Falk, Mason, and Jackson...and after doing that, I am really coming around to the idea of Lamar Jackson. We dont need to discuss how special he is with his legs, thats a given. What I was really surprised to see is how many straight legit tight NFL throws he makes both from the pocket and on the run. I have loved watching him play, but up until now I had not watched closely at the whole package, and I really feel this kid has by far the highest ceiling of any player in this draft at QB. The issue is he has a lower floor than some, and its going to come down to developing the kid. My Plan: Sign Teddy Bridgewater (or keep Taylor), and draft Lamar Jackson...assuming Kirk Cousins doesn't become a Bill. Take someone like (in no particular order) Vita Vea, Mike McGlitchey, Roquan Smith (might need to trade up for him), or Rashaan Evans at 21 then take Jackson at 22. We may even be able to take 2 players at 21 and 22 that aren't a QB, and package a couple of our next picks together to move back up to end of the first or top of 2nd to grab Jackson too. There are things to like and dislike about most the QB's, but I think waiting on a QB to keep as many picks as we can for other holes and grabbing a guy like Jackson would be pretty exciting. I know not everyone is going to like this idea, and thats fine. But I think to fairly asses him, you need to remove Tyrod from your minds and not just label him another TT just because he makes plays with his legs. Watch this tape...yes anyone can make someone look good on a highlight video, but look at the legit NFL throws, the tight windows, the touch, etc...its there! Edited January 20, 2018 by Alphadawg7 2
mob16151 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 Apropos of nothing,I'd love to see what Daboll would do with Jackson. He's 10x the passer Hurts is. 2
Tatonka68 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 Tyrod part 2.No thanks another "gifted" athlete that cannot read a defense. I pass. 3
Alphadawg7 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Tyrod part 2.No thanks another "gifted" athlete that cannot read a defense. I pass. No disrespect to your opinion, but where do you get that opinion? The media? Assumption just because he runs? Or have you actually really sat down and watched him throw? If you watch the film, there are a lot of things he does as a passer that look better than what TT does. I honestly think a lot of the TT comparisons are just assumed because he can run like Tyrod. 4 minutes ago, mob16151 said: Apropos of nothing,I'd love to see what Daboll would do with Jackson. He's 10x the passer Hurts is. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Edited January 20, 2018 by Alphadawg7 1
BillsFan130 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 Does Jackson have a first round grade? I know things change a lot especially after the combine/pro day but Just curious to know where “experts” have him valued at as of now
mob16151 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 Just now, billsfan11 said: Does Jackson have a first round grade? I know things change a lot especially after the combine/pro day but Just curious to know where “experts” have him valued at as of now Right now I'd say he's likely to be valued about the same as Mayfield. Darnold and Rosen are the consensus top 2. Then Mayfield,Jackson,and Allen. Followed by Rudolph. 1 1
Tatonka68 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) Watched I watched some of his games and he would be lost with NFL defenses. Also BIG red flag when "quarterback" runs for more yards than he passes. He has ZERO touch and shaky accuracy. Edited January 20, 2018 by Tatonka68
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Tyrod part 2.No thanks another "gifted" athlete that cannot read a defense. I pass. This is a lazy assessment, IMHO. 5
Tatonka68 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said: This is a lazy assessment, IMHO. He really, really, really sucks hard. He might start in the CFL.
jr1 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 this was from late June but has a good amount of pro and con https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2017/06/29/top-pick-not-nfl-draft-experts-divided-lamar-jacksons-pro-prospects/436363001/
Alphadawg7 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Posted January 20, 2018 1 minute ago, billsfan11 said: Does Jackson have a first round grade? I know things change a lot especially after the combine/pro day but Just curious to know where “experts” have him valued at as of now Ive seen him in rankings up and down...I have seen as high as #2 QB in the draft (definitely not the consensus) and as low as 7th (again, not the consensus). He is mostly positioned somewhere between those, and the reality of Jackson is that his real draft slot is going to be highly impacted by the offseason evaluations, combine, workouts, etc. If he comes out and wows with his arm, its not out of the question he can go top 10 this year. The more probable scenario is that he will be the 4th to 6th QB off the board, and this is a year where 6 QB's could go in the first. 4 are a lock, 5 are probable, and 6 are possible. All it takes is one team to fall in love with him, and he can go high. Tebow was a terrible QB prospect coming out of college and yet Broncos shocked everyone and traded up to get him in the first. I do think he will go somewhere between mid first and the mid 2nd, again depending on how things go for him in the offseason draft prep. I seriously doubt he drops below mid 2nd, and while I think its possible he could surprise and go top 10, I just dont think its likely he will given the number of prototypical QB's at the top of the draft board. 1 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 ....guyz, need some help as I do not get to see college ball, but have read about Jackson....is he an upscale TT and if so, would he fit the recent OC Daboll hire from what we know?.....
swnybillsfan Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 i am incredibly open to jackson. though, i know nothing about him other than what is posted here and what i hear on the radio. i wouldn't be opposed to a mobile qb, i just don't want a running qb. i am not calling jackson a running qb, but i know that others have. i am definitely intrigued by this guy.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Watched I watched some of his games and he would be lost with NFL defenses. Also BIG red flag when "quarterback" runs for more yards than he passes. He has ZERO touch and shaky accuracy. I think LJ is underrated as a passer, and has gotten a lot better at reading defenses and going through his progressions. His footwork needs some help, which affects his accuracy at times, but this is something that can be fixed. He has rare arm talent, good instincts, and very good pocket presence, IMO. Very high ceiling, and the athleticism is merely a bonus that will surely reigned in in the NFL. I’m not saying he’s a sure fire franchise guy, but I think the Tyrod 2.0 cliche is growing tiresome. 1
BillsFan130 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Ive seen him in rankings up and down...I have seen as high as #2 QB in the draft (definitely not the consensus) and as low as 7th (again, not the consensus). He is mostly positioned somewhere between those, and the reality of Jackson is that his real draft slot is going to be highly impacted by the offseason evaluations, combine, workouts, etc. If he comes out and wows with his arm, its not out of the question he can go top 10 this year. The more probable scenario is that he will be the 4th to 6th QB off the board, and this is a year where 6 QB's could go in the first. 4 are a lock, 5 are probable, and 6 are possible. All it takes is one team to fall in love with him, and he can go high. Tebow was a terrible QB prospect coming out of college and yet Broncos shocked everyone and traded up to get him in the first. I do think he will go somewhere between mid first and the mid 2nd, again depending on how things go for him in the offseason draft prep. I seriously doubt he drops below mid 2nd, and while I think its possible he could surprise and go top 10, I just dont think its likely he will given the number of prototypical QB's at the top of the draft board. Awesome, thanks for the info
swnybillsfan Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....guyz, need some help as I do not get to see college ball, but have read about Jackson....is he an upscale TT and if so, would he fit the recent OC Daboll hire from what we know?..... the thing have really liked about the new oc is that everyone seems to say this guy actually works to his players' strengths. and while every coach says this about themselves, not a lot of people usually say this about the coach. so i am optimistic about the oc being able to utilize a special skill set.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Posted January 20, 2018 1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....guyz, need some help as I do not get to see college ball, but have read about Jackson....is he an upscale TT and if so, would he fit the recent OC Daboll hire from what we know?..... He is as dangerous with his legs as TT, maybe even more (hard to say since we are comparing college and NFL). But to me, he seem to be a better passer than Tyrod as after watching lots of clips and highlights of him I see a lot of big time NFL throws, tight window throws, timing throws, etc. TT isnt as bad as some here make him out to be, but he also has legit limitations as a thrower. I have seen a lot of things that Lamar does that are better those things that TT is limited at. Think about this...with TT we have flirted with the playoffs under terrible coaching, a terrible defense, and terrible receivers (due to injuries) prior to this year. Then with TT in 2017 we made the playoffs with mostly terrible receiving group as a result of FA, trades, and injuries and a D that fell apart for 3 weeks where it gave up an average of 46 points per week. If we can get someone who is a lethal threat like TT with his legs, but is also better as a passer where TT is weak..then that could be interesting and exciting. 1
PIZ Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 I'm very intrigued with Jackson. The guy is electric. However, I am concerned about this: Completion %: 2015….. 54.7 2016..... 56.2 2017..... 59.1 College career average... 57.0 1
3rdand12 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 28 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: For a long time I felt like Baker Mayfield was going to be a Bill next year, long before many were on that train. Got flamed a lot saying he wouldn't go until the 2nd or 3rd round. Funny thing happened along the way...Baker shut everyone up and proved he is a lock for the first round barring some incident or injury, and Bills had a winning season and wound up with a much lower draft pick than expected. Now to get Baker, its going to cost to move up, and probably cost more than Beane would consider spending, especially the way he covets picks and the depth of QB in this draft. I honestly do not expect a big move up for a QB in this draft because its going to be expensive with all the QB needy teams in the top 12, which is probably the min you need to get to this year to get any of the top 4 guys. Instead I could see us making a modest move if someone they like slips out of the top 12 or even a small trade up to get a stud defender they might covet like Roquan or something. So where does that leave the Bills options at QB...well guys like Mason, Falk, and of course Jackson are the obvious ones to look at. I still strongly feel that making a play for Cousins, if he is available, would be the best move so we can focus the draft picks on other players. But we dont know if Cousins is available, and there will be stiff competition for his services with better weather to play in than Buffalo, so not sure he would even choose the Bills if he was an option. So, I started watching a lot of footage of Falk, Mason, and Jackson...and after doing that, I am really coming around to the idea of Lamar Jackson. We dont need to discuss how special he is with his legs, thats a given. What I was really surprised to see is how many straight legit tight NFL throws he makes both from the pocket and on the run. I have loved watching him play, but up until now I had not watched closely at the whole package, and I really feel this kid has by far the highest ceiling of any player in this draft at QB. The issue is he has a lower floor than some, and its going to come down to developing the kid. My Plan: Sign Teddy Bridgewater (or keep Taylor), and draft Lamar Jackson...assuming Kirk Cousins doesn't become a Bill. Take someone like (in no particular order) Vita Vea, Mike McGlitchey, Roquan Smith (might need to trade up for him), or Rashaan Evans at 21 then take Jackson at 22. We may even be able to take 2 players at 21 and 22 that aren't a QB, and package a couple of our next picks together to move back up to end of the first or top of 2nd to grab Jackson too. There are things to like and dislike about most the QB's, but I think waiting on a QB to keep as many picks as we can for other holes and grabbing a guy like Jackson would be pretty exciting. I know not everyone is going to like this idea, and thats fine. But I think to fairly asses him, you need to remove Tyrod from your minds and not just label him another TT just because he makes plays with his legs. Watch this tape...yes anyone can make someone look good on a highlight video, but look at the legit NFL throws, the tight windows, the touch, etc...its there! you keep Taylor if you take this guy. Develop and scheme the Offense for Jackson right away. When he is ready ? His surroundings will be developed. TT can bridge that. 1 1
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 He has improved every year as a passer, and by all accounts is a film room junky. Very hard working, motivated kid.
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