Confirmed: Concussions don't cause CTE

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You’re watching this with your pants off aren’t you?

Yes, why?

 

We are still on for the viewingparty of the next mma fight tho right?

[GG]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't watch WWE but I know guys can be thrown hard on the canvas.  The canvas isn't soft.  I've landed on them pretty hard and it's jarring sometimes.

The GIF is a UFC fight but canvas is the same....it can knock you out.  These WWE guys in rehearsals and training I'm aren't landing gently each time.

 

 

But WWE hits are more in line with big blows that cause concussions, not repeated hits.  Yet, there's a high incidence of CTE.   Which means the concussion theory is inconclusive, or there's another contributing factor to CTE that no one is looking at (or at least reporting).

[nedboy7]

Hey the earth is flat. It sure looks like it don’t it?  

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, GG said:

 

But WWE hits are more in line with big blows that cause concussions, not repeated hits.  Yet, there's a high incidence of CTE.   Which means the concussion theory is inconclusive, or there's another contributing factor to CTE that no one is looking at (or at least reporting).

 

Yeah...I'm not disagreeing with you.  I really don't have a great answer to it...simply just a guess from experience.  I've went limp for a second and saw stars being slammed on this canvas so I know the feeling.

28 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Yes, why?

 

We are still on for the viewingparty of the next mma fight tho right?

 

Well that's tomorrow night but we have a couples date night so I'm out.

There's another good fight coming up soon though.  I'll bring the Flaming Hot Cheetos and Mountain Dew.

[CodeMonkey]

On 1/18/2018 at 1:55 PM, Mr. WEO said:

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/health/cte-concussion-repeated-hits-study/index.html

 

Not sure what this means for the NFL.  It confirms what has already been speculated--it's not about the known events (concussions), it's an accumulation of hits, starting in youth.

 

While it may further give pause to parents considering tackle football for their kids, it should help insulate the NFL from claims that NFL football caused any player's CTE type disease.

"Previous studies have shown that repetitive hits to the head -- even without concussion -- can result in CTE"  

Repetitive hits to the head is the definition of tackle football.  This news is worse for the future of tackle football as we know it today, not better. 

[GoBills808]

For those who want to read the study: https://academic.oup.com/brain/advance-article/doi/10.1093/brain/awx350/4815697#108955435 (warning: it's dense)

 

You can find the relevant information primarily in the 'results' category, but the main findings concerning CTE and concussions as functions of what they call 'close-head impact injury' (read: hit to the head) are that while there are a bunch of factors in head injuries (force of impact, shear velocities and angles of trauma, subjects' varying intercranial physiologies etc) that determine specifically what the subjects' response will be, there isn't a correlation between people who suffer concussions in relation to CTE.

 

All that really means is that having a concussion is a poor predictor of whether you will develop CTE. Think of it in terms of getting sick: the head trauma is the virus, and the CTE and concussion are the sore throat and fever. So while you wouldn't say that having a sore throat is a predictor of getting a fever, you would be remiss in not acknowledging that both (in this example) symptoms had a single single point of origin. So I disagree with the OP's conclusion that this is somehow good for the NFL...what I take from this study is that head trauma can cause a spectrum of neuropathological disorders, among which are CTE and concussion, and that their lack of correlation is (like many, many physiological responses) is a function of a bunch of very particular, not-yet-well understood phenomena and doesn't say much of anything as to the NFL's liability or lack thereof.

 

 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah...I'm not disagreeing with you.  I really don't have a great answer to it...simply just a guess from experience.  I've went limp for a second and saw stars being slammed on this canvas so I know the feeling.

 

Well that's tomorrow night but we have a couples date night so I'm out.

There's another good fight coming up soon though.  I'll bring the Flaming Hot Cheetos and Mountain Dew.

Pants optional as always!

 

By the way. You popped up on my you may know on Facebook.  The blonde. ???.  I don't know how to use the Facebooks but it popped up w you.

[ToGoGo]

20 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Sometimes I just like watching someone dive into the pool that has no water in it......

 

It's like a car accident when I see posts like this

 

Insult, with no explanation as to why the other person is wrong. Every time.

 

You suck at your job. Get a new template. 

[Captain_Quint]

On 1/18/2018 at 1:55 PM, Mr. WEO said:

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/health/cte-concussion-repeated-hits-study/index.html

 

Not sure what this means for the NFL.  It confirms what has already been speculated--it's not about the known events (concussions), it's an accumulation of hits, starting in youth.

 

While it may further give pause to parents considering tackle football for their kids, it should help insulate the NFL from claims that NFL football caused any player's CTE type disease.

As a male nurse, you have to know enough about the human body (or at least cleaning up their feces) to know that this 'report' is nothing more than FAKE NEWS!

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

Pants optional as always!

 

By the way. You popped up on my you may know on Facebook.  The blonde. ???.  I don't know how to use the Facebooks but it popped up w you.

 

Just sent a friend request to you.

Now you can be godfather to my kid.

[boyst]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Just sent a friend request to you.

Now you can be godfather to my kid.

I'll have to figure out how to make it show me you again!  I lathe Facebook. 

[The Wiz]

16 hours ago, BuffaloBillsMagic1 said:

How is it boxers and mma fighters don’t all have cte or go crazy in their 20s

Because they don't get hit in the head week after week.  Boxers normally fight every few months.  Sure they take a beating a bunch but the brain swelling probably goes down along with the rest of the beating they might have taken.  A boxer will take it and stand or take hits and fall.  Most fall after a heavy shot to the head.  A lot of boxing now is focus on body shots and not head shots though which is why it might not be as big of a deal.

 

[Thurman#1]

On 1/20/2018 at 12:13 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

 

It's the first quote from the lead author, in fact.

 

"Now we have both the scientific proof, the pathologies to support it, and all the evidence to show that concussion is not linked to long-term neurological disease," said Dr. Lee Goldstein, one of the authors on the study, published in the journal Brain.

 

 

What you all seem to forget is that the league was accused of hiding evidence that concussions caused these neurological diseases later in life for players.  They settled a billion dollar suit over it.  This was all done before experts agreed that it is an accumulation of repetitive blows of any lesser magnitude that cause CTE. 

 

So, essentially, what the NFL was accused of hiding (very specifically it was the evidence that may have linked concussions to brain injury) turns out not to be the cause of brain disease after all. 

 

So now claiming that "hits cause CTE" evidence will be bad for the NFL is nonsense.  There is no football without a million hits a year.  That may not be good for all of football at every level (particularly youth football), but this is certainly not bad news for the NFL over any other level of play.

 

 

Because this is exactly the current scientific explanation of the cause of the disease.  So of course that is what they will truthfully claim.  Hence, this is a good report for the NFL.

 

 

 

When he says that concussion is not linked to long-term disease, he is saying that some guys without concussions can get CTE. From repeated hits to the head which either don't cause concussion symptoms or don't cause concussions.

 

What  he is absolutely NOT saying is that if you get a concussion, you don't have to worry about it because it won't cause CTE. He isn't saying that at all, in any way. "Get a concussion? Buy some ice cream, set off some fireworks, no problem," is not the message. It also isn't saying that a hit to the head that causes a concussion is less dangerous than a hit to the head that does not cause a concussion.

 

 

 

As for your summary of what the NFL said, "the league was accused of hiding evidence that concussions caused these neurological diseases later in life for players," what they've said has been more specific than that.

 

For example, "In 2004, a league study had found "no evidence of worsening injury or chronic cumulative effects" from multiple concussions." Think this new study would back them up there? That because concussion symptoms were present in those multiple cases," there was no causative probability there? 

 

Quotes above and below from here:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/10/07/frontline-documentary-nfl-concussions/2939747/

 

"In a study published in 2005, [the NFL's MTBI committee] said players whose concussion symptoms go away while a game is in progress can return 'safely' to that game. It noted the 'possibility' that the same might apply to high school and college players."

 

Think this study backs them up on that?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

Past NFL statements referring specifically to the fact that concussions haven't been proven the specific cause of CTE look much better. But that wasn't all the NFL said.

 

But there's worse news too. Now playing football, a sport which has more cases of repeated head impacts than it does of concussions, looks more likely to cause CTE, not less.

[row_33]

it Was very shameful for the NFL to track the doctor’s wife in a car and have her fear cause a miscarriage

 

[Mr. WEO]

On January 19, 2018 at 4:28 PM, CodeMonkey said:

"Previous studies have shown that repetitive hits to the head -- even without concussion -- can result in CTE"  

Repetitive hits to the head is the definition of tackle football.  This news is worse for the future of tackle football as we know it today, not better. 

 

This part I have already agreed with.  My point re: the NFL was very simple:  NFL football, itself, cannot be credibly pointed to as the "cause" of future brain disease disease in its former players.

 

On January 19, 2018 at 5:58 PM, musichunch said:

 

Insult, with no explanation as to why the other person is wrong. Every time.

 

You suck at your job. Get a new template. 

 

Your post spoke for itself.  Read the rest of mine and you'll understand my response to yours.

 

On January 19, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Captain_Quint said:

As a male nurse, you have to know enough about the human body (or at least cleaning up their feces) to know that this 'report' is nothing more than FAKE NEWS!

 

I don't care what your profession....but no, not fake news.

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

When he says that concussion is not linked to long-term disease, he is saying that some guys without concussions can get CTE. From repeated hits to the head which either don't cause concussion symptoms or don't cause concussions.

 

What  he is absolutely NOT saying is that if you get a concussion, you don't have to worry about it because it won't cause CTE. He isn't saying that at all, in any way. "Get a concussion? Buy some ice cream, set off some fireworks, no problem," is not the message. It also isn't saying that a hit to the head that causes a concussion is less dangerous than a hit to the head that does not cause a concussion.

 

 

 

As for your summary of what the NFL said, "the league was accused of hiding evidence that concussions caused these neurological diseases later in life for players," what they've said has been more specific than that.

 

For example, "In 2004, a league study had found "no evidence of worsening injury or chronic cumulative effects" from multiple concussions." Think this new study would back them up there? That because concussion symptoms were present in those multiple cases," there was no causative probability there? 

 

Quotes above and below from here:  https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/10/07/frontline-documentary-nfl-concussions/2939747/

 

"In a study published in 2005, [the NFL's MTBI committee] said players whose concussion symptoms go away while a game is in progress can return 'safely' to that game. It noted the 'possibility' that the same might apply to high school and college players."

 

Think this study backs them up on that?

 

 

 

 

 

This study is very clear in it's conclusions.  If you disagree with the authors, take it up with them. It's a lifetime of repeated hits that causes CTE.  The whole focus on concussions now and in the past by the NFL was not material to preventing this disease.  

 

Even if  the NFL had agreed that "concessions" caused neurological disease"  way back in 2004, preventing concussions (which is impossible in this game) would not have altered the etiology or the incidence of neurological disease in the future.

 

This is what the study is saying.  

[ToGoGo]

59 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Your post spoke for itself.  Read the rest of mine and you'll understand my response to yours.

 

Again, you said nothing. You'll be exposed soon. 

[CodeMonkey]

18 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This part I have already agreed with.  My point re: the NFL was very simple:  NFL football, itself, cannot be credibly pointed to as the "cause" of future brain disease disease in its former players.

 

No not by itself.  But it is a huge, HUGE, contributor to those that play the game.  Particularly professionally. To think this study absolves the NFL from any future litigation is foolish, IMO.

Edited January 22, 2018 by CodeMonkey

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

No not by itself.  But it is a huge, HUGE, contributor to those that play the game.  Particularly professionally. To think this study absolves the NFL from any future litigation is foolish, IMO.

 

 

Well, no one can be absolved from future litigation..

 

The point is that  if a plaintiff's attorney gets this world expert on the stand and asks: "did this player's concussions, while in the NFL, cause his CTE?", the expert will answer: "no, it was the accumulation of thousands of hits over a life of playing football at all levels".

 

Every expert will testify in the same way.  No one will be able to point to where the player's NFL career led to a later neuro disease, as distinct form his college career, his HS career, or his Pop Warner career. 

 

Also, since it's accumulated hits, not concussions per se (the conclusion of the study), that cause the disease in some--and because hits are an implied risk any level of tackle football and therefore an accepted risk NFL players take willfully....then what is the liability of the NFL in particular?

 

I'm betting the NFL really wished this paper came out 3-4 years ago. 

[Doc]

5 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

No not by itself.  But it is a huge, HUGE, contributor to those that play the game.  Particularly professionally. To think this study absolves the NFL from any future litigation is foolish, IMO.

 

No, there won't be any future litigation for the NFL.  They already settled the concussion issue with the players (hastily, because they too believed that concussions led to brain damage, as evidenced by them actively hiding/burying concussion data) and it's not the NFL's fault kids and/or their parents got them into football.