Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Green Lightning said: We can debate stats all day long. You tell me, it's the fourth quarter were down a touchdown who do you want to have the ball, Tyrod or Bridgewater? Ask anybody on this board and I think you have your answer. Can I vote "neither"? But I'll take that as indicating you are very impressed by Bridgewater's 4th Q comebacks and feel they show him as a better passer? Edited January 21, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
26CornerBlitz Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 8 reasons Teddy Bridgewater will be the Bills' starting QB in 2018 By Ryan Talbot | Contributing writer The 2018 Buffalo Bills roster will look a lot different than the team that finished 9-7 and made the playoffs. Defensively, Buffalo may overhaul their front seven. On offense, the Bills could address just about every position. The biggest change will most likely come at quarterback. Tyrod Taylor could return for another season, but most expect the team to move on from the QB. If Taylor doesn't return, who could replace him in 2018? After looking at Alex Smith as a possible solution, the next entry in our series is a soon-to-be free agent that was once considered the face of a franchise. Here are 8 reasons why Teddy Bridgewater will be the Bills' starting quarterback in 2018. Odd man out in Minnesota Limited market in free agency Doesn't prevent Bills from taking QB in the draft Has won in the league Could still be a franchise QB Accurate Can build around him Already has McDermott's slogan down Edited January 21, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz
Green Lightning Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Can I vote "neither"? But I'll take that as indicating you are very impressed by Bridgewater's 4th Q comebacks and feel they show him as a better passer? You can vote however you want, but if you put that question up to the rest of the board I think the answer would be clear. Bridgewater's a better quarterback. What the hell is the sense of having a great passer who can't win games, can't connect to wide receivers, and throws for 50 yards a game? You call then passers, I them football players. Teddy Bridgewater is a better QB than TT. Bridgewater has won 16% of his games with 4th quarter comebacks. The fourth quarter is when TT disappears completely.
Big Turk Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Green Lightning said: You can vote however you want, but if you put that question up to the rest of the board I think the answer would be clear. Bridgewater's a better quarterback. What the hell is the sense of having a great passer who can't win games, can't connect to wide receivers, and throws for 50 yards a game? You call then passers, I them football players. Teddy Bridgewater is a better QB than TT. Bridgewater has won 16% of his games with 4th quarter comebacks. The fourth quarter is when TT disappears completely. Maybe if Bridgewater did more in quarters 1 through 3 he wouldn't have to have that many comeback wins
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Green Lightning said: You can vote however you want, but if you put that question up to the rest of the board I think the answer would be clear. Bridgewater's a better quarterback. What the hell is the sense of having a great passer who can't win games, can't connect to wide receivers, and throws for 50 yards a game? You call then passers, I them football players. Teddy Bridgewater is a better QB than TT. Bridgewater has won 16% of his games with 4th quarter comebacks. The fourth quarter is when TT disappears completely. I'm getting lost here. Who is this great passer we're talking about who can't win games and can't connect to wide receivers? What I thought we were discussing is to help me understand why Teddy Bridgewater is said to be a rhythm passer who can read defenses and get the ball out with timing and anticipation in 3,5, and 7 step drops, yet in his 2 years of NFL play his passing stats are very Tyrod Taylor like with 205 ypg, 14 TD per year, and worse in some regards with an average of >40 sacks per year and 2.6% interception, resulting in a passing offense that was 28th in the league his 1st year and 31st his 2nd. Those are very Tyrod-Taylor like stats, and he is regarded here as NOT a good passer, NOT passing for enough TDs, and NOT good enough passing offense. I mean, it sounds impressive and all that to say Bridgewater has won 16% of his games with 4th quarter comebacks, but leaving aside the question of whether W-L record is properly a QB stat, that's 3 games. if the Vikes won 17 games of 28 games he played during his 2 years at QB and the Bills won 22 of 42 games Tyrod played during 3 years at QB, the winning percentage differs by 8%, so would Bridgewater's 4th quarter comebacks make 8% of a difference to their team's records even though they're 16% of the 17 games he won? Now my head hurts. Or maybe winning has to do with the whole team and not a QB stat? I'd kind of like to see a QB who isn't 29th in the NFL for TD passes during the whole game, myself, so maybe we wouldn't need that 4th quarter comeback so badly. Sure, I'd like a guy to score more 4th quarter comebacks other things being equal, but I'm really not trying to debate TT >> TB; like most people here, I want to see a major upgrade at QB. What I'm trying to understand is why some see Bridgewater as that potential major upgrade, because the defense reading ball timing WR anticipating skills he is said to have don't seem to have come out in increased passing offense. And I want to see increased passing offense on the Bills. Edited January 21, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 1 1
SouthNYfan Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 9 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: 8 reasons Teddy Bridgewater will be the Bills' starting QB in 2018 By Ryan Talbot | Contributing writer The 2018 Buffalo Bills roster will look a lot different than the team that finished 9-7 and made the playoffs. Defensively, Buffalo may overhaul their front seven. On offense, the Bills could address just about every position. The biggest change will most likely come at quarterback. Tyrod Taylor could return for another season, but most expect the team to move on from the QB. If Taylor doesn't return, who could replace him in 2018? After looking at Alex Smith as a possible solution, the next entry in our series is a soon-to-be free agent that was once considered the face of a franchise. Here are 8 reasons why Teddy Bridgewater will be the Bills' starting quarterback in 2018. Odd man out in Minnesota Limited market in free agency Doesn't prevent Bills from taking QB in the draft Has won in the league Could still be a franchise QB Accurate Can build around him Already has McDermott's slogan down If he's so good and healthy why did the Vikings decline his option?? That 8 reasons article is a puff piece with nothing but anecdotal speculation, and is doing a "series" of these 8 reason articles on QBs. Nothing in the Teddy one gives any indication of him being a big upgrade to Taylor. The stats used in the article, as with the stats used by you, indicate Taylor and Teddy are similar in production. Your have yet to show otherwise. 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm getting lost here. Who is this great passer we're talking about who can't win games and can't connect to wide receivers? What I thought we were discussing is to help me understand why Teddy Bridgewater is said to be a rhythm passer who can read defenses and get the ball out with timing and anticipation in 3,5, and 7 step drops, yet in his 2 years of NFL play his passing stats are very Tyrod Taylor like with 205 ypg, 14 TD per year, and worse in some regards with an average of >40 sacks per year and 2.6% interception, resulting in a passing offense that was 28th in the league his 1st year and 31st his 2nd. Those are very Tyrod-Taylor like stats, and he is regarded here as NOT a good passer, NOT passing for enough TDs, and NOT good enough passing offense. I mean, it sounds impressive and all that to say Bridgewater has won 16% of his games with 4th quarter comebacks, but leaving aside the question of whether W-L record is properly a QB stat, that's 3 games. if the Vikes won 17 games of 28 games he played during his 2 years at QB and the Bills won 22 of 42 games Tyrod played during 3 years at QB, the winning percentage differs by 8%, so would Bridgewater's 4th quarter comebacks make 8% of a difference to their team's records even though they're 16% of the 17 games he won? Now my head hurts. Or maybe winning has to do with the whole team and not a QB stat? I'd kind of like to see a QB who isn't 29th in the NFL for TD passes during the whole game, myself, so maybe we wouldn't need that 4th quarter comeback so badly. Sure, I'd like a guy to score more 4th quarter comebacks other things being equal, but I'm really not trying to debate TT >> TB; like most people here, I want to see a major upgrade at QB. What I'm trying to understand is why some see Bridgewater as that potential major upgrade, because the defense reading ball timing WR anticipating skills he is said to have don't seem to have come out in increased passing offense. And I want to see increased passing offense on the Bills. Agreed completely.
Green Lightning Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 9 hours ago, matter2003 said: Maybe if Bridgewater did more in quarters 1 through 3 he wouldn't have to have that many comeback wins Yeah you're right, just like Peyton Manning, Brady, Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas, and John Elway. Those are the top five come-from-behind quarterbacks. If only they were more competent in the first 3 quarters they wouldn't have had to rally in the 4th Yeah you're right! 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm getting lost here. Who is this great passer we're talking about who can't win games and can't connect to wide receivers? What I thought we were discussing is to help me understand why Teddy Bridgewater is said to be a rhythm passer who can read defenses and get the ball out with timing and anticipation in 3,5, and 7 step drops, yet in his 2 years of NFL play his passing stats are very Tyrod Taylor like with 205 ypg, 14 TD per year, and worse in some regards with an average of >40 sacks per year and 2.6% interception, resulting in a passing offense that was 28th in the league his 1st year and 31st his 2nd. Those are very Tyrod-Taylor like stats, and he is regarded here as NOT a good passer, NOT passing for enough TDs, and NOT good enough passing offense. I mean, it sounds impressive and all that to say Bridgewater has won 16% of his games with 4th quarter comebacks, but leaving aside the question of whether W-L record is properly a QB stat, that's 3 games. if the Vikes won 17 games of 28 games he played during his 2 years at QB and the Bills won 22 of 42 games Tyrod played during 3 years at QB, the winning percentage differs by 8%, so would Bridgewater's 4th quarter comebacks make 8% of a difference to their team's records even though they're 16% of the 17 games he won? Now my head hurts. Or maybe winning has to do with the whole team and not a QB stat? I'd kind of like to see a QB who isn't 29th in the NFL for TD passes during the whole game, myself, so maybe we wouldn't need that 4th quarter comeback so badly. Sure, I'd like a guy to score more 4th quarter comebacks other things being equal, but I'm really not trying to debate TT >> TB; like most people here, I want to see a major upgrade at QB. What I'm trying to understand is why some see Bridgewater as that potential major upgrade, because the defense reading ball timing WR anticipating skills he is said to have don't seem to have come out in increased passing offense. And I want to see increased passing offense on the Bills. You definitely are lost. I'm saying this, Teddy Bridgewater is a better quarterback than Tyrod Taylor. Our offense would be much better under him in the sense of winning games. We would be playing the Patriots today if Bridgewater were our quarterback against Jacksonville. I'm not saying Teddy is our end-all quarterback, he's better than Tyrod and whoever we draft Teddy could help school them. That's how this whole thing began my friend. You want to get stuck on passing yards and stats, fine I'm talking about winning football games. Particularly when the game is on the line and it matters - when TT dissappears. When the going gets tough, Tyrod tanks.
Stank_Nasty Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: Yeah you're right, just like Peyton Manning, Brady, Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas, and John Elway. Those are the top five come-from-behind quarterbacks. If only they were more competent in the first 3 quarters they wouldn't have had to rally in the 4th Yeah you're right! You definitely are lost. I'm saying this, Teddy Bridgewater is a better quarterback than Tyrod Taylor. Our offense would be much better under him in the sense of winning games. We would be playing the Patriots today if Bridgewater were our quarterback against Jacksonville. I'm not saying Teddy is our end-all quarterback, he's better than Tyrod and whoever we draft Teddy could help school them. That's how this whole thing began my friend. You want to get stuck on passing yards and stats, fine I'm talking about winning football games. Particularly when the game is on the line and it matters - when TT dissappears. When the going gets tough, Tyrod tanks. I’m Fine with moving on from Tyrod but you seriously need to pump the breaks on teddy. Good lord. The guy has been extremely pedestrian. Im even ok with bringing him in if he’s reasonably priced but the guy wasn’t anything more than average before the injury. And if he was better than Taylor before the injury it was marginal at best. The year he went 11-5 he had the 5th ranked defense in points against and the 4th ranked rush attack backing him up. He tossed 14 td’s for cripes sake.
Big Turk Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 42 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: Yeah you're right, just like Peyton Manning, Brady, Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas, and John Elway. Those are the top five come-from-behind quarterbacks. If only they were more competent in the first 3 quarters they wouldn't have had to rally in the 4th Yeah you're right! You definitely are lost. I'm saying this, Teddy Bridgewater is a better quarterback than Tyrod Taylor. Our offense would be much better under him in the sense of winning games. We would be playing the Patriots today if Bridgewater were our quarterback against Jacksonville. I'm not saying Teddy is our end-all quarterback, he's better than Tyrod and whoever we draft Teddy could help school them. That's how this whole thing began my friend. You want to get stuck on passing yards and stats, fine I'm talking about winning football games. Particularly when the game is on the line and it matters - when TT dissappears. When the going gets tough, Tyrod tanks. I wouldnt be putring my eggs in a basket with a QB one hit away(or maybe not even a hit) from his career being over. I remember what Culpepper looked like after coming back from a similar injury and he was terrible.
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 This would be such a terrible idea, in all honesty if they are looking in this direction we may as well keep Tyrod, he throws less picks and is already here plus doesn't have that ticking time bomb of a knee... http://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/21/nfl-free-agency-teddy-bridgewater-buffalo-bills-tyrod-taylor/
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Green Lightning said: You definitely are lost. I'm saying this, Teddy Bridgewater is a better quarterback than Tyrod Taylor. Our offense would be much better under him in the sense of winning games. We would be playing the Patriots today if Bridgewater were our quarterback against Jacksonville. I'm not saying Teddy is our end-all quarterback, he's better than Tyrod and whoever we draft Teddy could help school them. That's how this whole thing began my friend. You want to get stuck on passing yards and stats, fine I'm talking about winning football games. Particularly when the game is on the line and it matters - when TT dissappears. When the going gets tough, Tyrod tanks. And I'm asking you, why, what basis or evidence you have that shows, you believe Teddy Bridgewater is a "better Quarterback than Tyrod Taylor"? I hope we both can agree that we want to see a significant improvement at QB - not just an incremental improvement. Let's make sure we're talking about what I see as the real question here. It's not really "Is Teddy Bridgewater is a better quarterback than Tyrod Taylor?" right? Because that could be true, but not helpful to our team, can we agree on that? My neighbor's furnace may be better than my furnace. Maybe her furnace is 16% more efficient. In replacing my furnace, I'm not interested in installing her 25 yr old furnace instead of my 28 yr old furnace. for a small gain. I want a high efficiency furnace that's 2x better. So let's look at "the sense of winning games". I just want to understand your argument that Bridgewater would win more football games for us. In the two years Bridgewater played, the Vikes record was 7-9 (Defense: #11) and 11-5 (Defense: #5). The Vikes made the playoffs and lost by a score of 9-10 while Bridgewater threw for 146 yds, 0 TD 0 INT. In the three years Taylor started: our record was 8-8 (Defense: #15), 7-9 (Defense: #16), and 9-7 (Defense: #18). We made the playoffs and lost by a score of 10-3 while Taylor threw for 134 yds, 0 TD, 1 Int. Is your argument if you plonk Bridgewater into our team with our D, he wins more games? All 3 of Bridgewater's "game winning drives" were in his first year as starter, when he was 6-6 and the Vikes were 7-9. Tyrod's first year, the Bills were 7-9 and Tyrod was 7-6. So how do you see Bridgewater translating into "win more games"? It's a fact that Tyrod won more games, even with Bridgewaters 3 "game winning drives", and both teams overall had the same record. Is your argument that Bridgewater is more "clutch" and would lead a comeback in a playoff game? When there was a playoff game on the line and supported by the #5 D in football, Bridgewater did not lead a comeback - the Vikes scored 0 points in the 4th quarter - and they lost the game. I respect that you don't want to "get stuck on passing yards and stats", but when you talk about winning football games. it just doesn't seem to match anything objective - such as actually winning a playoff game, or "GWD" leading to more wins. Edited January 21, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 38 minutes ago, matter2003 said: I wouldnt be putring my eggs in a basket with a QB one hit away(or maybe not even a hit) from his career being over. I remember what Culpepper looked like after coming back from a similar injury and he was terrible. I had forgotten that. But yes, yes he was. Although, to be fair, it differs - 1) Culpepper was traded to a new team and he/they may have hurried his rehab vs. letting him recover fully. 2) Culpepper may not have had the requisite work ethic and dedication to rehab (or to learning to QB in the NFL?) But sheesh, Minnesota. If it weren't for bad luck drafting QB, they'd have no luck at all.
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) Late arriving to this. The stats are the stats (and they aren't impressive), but has anyone WATCHED Bridgewater play over multiple games? He is NOT good. Not a great arm, not great in the pocket, and not that accurate. Plus he didn't have a bad injury; he had a *horrible* injury that leaves most people who suffer it permanently debilitated. No thanks. Edited January 21, 2018 by dave mcbride
Green Lightning Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, matter2003 said: I wouldnt be putring my eggs in a basket with a QB one hit away(or maybe not even a hit) from his career being over. I remember what Culpepper looked like after coming back from a similar injury and he was terrible. You could say that about any QB. Besides we're not putting our eggs in one basket, he's a bridge (as his name implies) quarterback while our draft choice matures.
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/20/2018 at 3:42 AM, 26CornerBlitz said: Stats don't have a thing to do with what I posted there. Watch then post. Until then. Shhhh. I have watched, 26. He is not good. In terms of his play style, it always struck me as a moderately more competent version of Christian Ponder. His arm is definitely not strong enough for a place like Buffalo either. Just my opinion, of course.
Green Lightning Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 57 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: And I'm asking you, why, what basis or evidence you have that shows, you believe Teddy Bridgewater is a "better Quarterback than Tyrod Taylor"? I hope we both can agree that we want to see a significant improvement at QB - not just an incremental improvement. Let's make sure we're talking about what I see as the real question here. It's not really "Is Teddy Bridgewater is a better quarterback than Tyrod Taylor?" right? Because that could be true, but not helpful to our team, can we agree on that? My neighbor's furnace may be better than my furnace. Maybe her furnace is 16% more efficient. In replacing my furnace, I'm not interested in installing her 25 yr old furnace instead of my 28 yr old furnace. for a small gain. I want a high efficiency furnace that's 2x better. So let's look at "the sense of winning games". I just want to understand your argument that Bridgewater would win more football games for us. In the two years Bridgewater played, the Vikes record was 7-9 (Defense: #11) and 11-5 (Defense: #5). The Vikes made the playoffs and lost by a score of 9-10 while Bridgewater threw for 146 yds, 0 TD 0 INT. In the three years Taylor started: our record was 8-8 (Defense: #15), 7-9 (Defense: #16), and 9-7 (Defense: #18). We made the playoffs and lost by a score of 10-3 while Taylor threw for 134 yds, 0 TD, 1 Int. Is your argument if you plonk Bridgewater into our team with our D, he wins more games? All 3 of Bridgewater's "game winning drives" were in his first year as starter, when he was 6-6 and the Vikes were 7-9. Tyrod's first year, the Bills were 7-9 and Tyrod was 7-6. So how do you see Bridgewater translating into "win more games"? It's a fact that Tyrod won more games, even with Bridgewaters 3 "game winning drives", and both teams overall had the same record. Is your argument that Bridgewater is more "clutch" and would lead a comeback in a playoff game? When there was a playoff game on the line and supported by the #5 D in football, Bridgewater did not lead a comeback - the Vikes scored 0 points in the 4th quarter - and they lost the game. I respect that you don't want to "get stuck on passing yards and stats", but when you talk about winning football games. it just doesn't seem to match anything objective - such as actually winning a playoff game, or "GWD" leading to more wins. 16% of his game we're come from behind. With TT, behind in the 4th quarter means we lose. Look, you think we're a better team with TT, just watch those 50 yard passing beauties he put up and the stellar Jax game. I'll take Teddy over that, particularly as a bridge QB while our draft pick matures. Overall I'd take Alex Smith as a bridge over both Teddy and TT.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I have watched, 26. He is not good. In terms of his play style, it always struck me as a moderately more competent version of Christian Ponder. His arm is definitely not strong enough for a place like Buffalo either. Just my opinion, of course. To this point in his career, I'd call him a pretty good pocket passer and that's something I would not say about Ponder's career.
dave mcbride Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: To this point in his career, I'd call him a pretty good pocket passer and that's something I would not say about Ponder's career. I did say he was more competent than Ponder. Regardless, his arm is decidedly unimpressive and I would never take a chance on that knee.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 Just now, dave mcbride said: I did say he was more competent than Ponder. Regardless, his arm is decidedly unimpressive and I would never take a chance on that knee. It seems good enough to me especially since he throws with timing and anticipation, but yes the knee is a risk factor that has to be taken into consideration.
Big Turk Posted January 21, 2018 Posted January 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: You could say that about any QB. Besides we're not putting our eggs in one basket, he's a bridge (as his name implies) quarterback while our draft choice matures. No not really...he has an injury so bad doctors weren't sure if his leg could be saved or it would need to have been amputated. QBs need their legs as much as their arms and I wouldn't trust a guy who might never recover enough to be effective...especially not a guy who wasn't THAT effective as it was without the injury.
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