Chandler#81 Posted January 18, 2018 Posted January 18, 2018 8 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: Can't blame a guy for wanting to receive the salary stated in his contract. As for declining production, I personally blame it entirely on Rico. I do hope though the Bills renegotiate a more team-friendly contract. Agreed. Begins and ends with the 1year wonder OC and his square peg/round hole philosophy. The Leagues best rushing attack 2 years running and stable OL overnight becomes pedestrian and in need of upgrades? Are we always looking to upgrade every position? Of course. But we’ve had many years of last years good fit players suddenly ‘suck’ because we endured yet another full coaching change. Yes, I’m hopeful of a renegotiated contract. Terry/Kim know how to take care of their premiere players.
Saxum Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Our O-Line is very average, Shady is what makes this offense go at the moment. Castillo is a bad O-Line coach who I wish was replaced when we hired a new OC. Agree completely,
Playoffs? Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Shady was our offense. Not ok with getting rid of him and hoping some other guy can do his job.
CommonCents Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: That's really dumb. The guy is regularly in the top 5 in rushing in the league, regularly in the top 5 in total yards from scrimmage. Over the past 7 or 8 seasons he's probably been the best running back in the league. He plays hurt. Almost all of his negative yards plays come when he has no hole and a lineman has missed his assignment. So the best running back in the league has the second highest running back contract in the league, and you're complaining. He's worth every nickel. You started off calling someone else's post really dumb then you went on to tell us that a guy who averaged 4.0 YPC is the best running back in the league. Orleans Darkwa played for a worse offense in NY and averaged 4.4 YPC. The team is in position to ride out Shady's deal, unless they make a big play for Cousins. I don't see McBeane upsetting the chemistry by asking McCoy to take a haircut but if you believe Shady was/is the best RB in the league then you should watch more games. Shady's time as the leagues best has past by. He has been a good solider since coming to Buffalo and I can see why people want him to get what he deserves, no need to exaggerate.
Solomon Grundy Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 11 hours ago, Shotgunner said: I love Shady, but he's not worth that number. His negative yardage plays exploded this year, and those are drive killers. I won't even comment on "lil coins" other than saying the mean income for Americans in 2017 was about $46,500. Oh Archie!!
Cruiserplayer Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 5 hours ago, Shaw66 said: That's really dumb. The guy is regularly in the top 5 in rushing in the league, regularly in the top 5 in total yards from scrimmage. Over the past 7 or 8 seasons he's probably been the best running back in the league. He plays hurt. Almost all of his negative yards plays come when he has no hole and a lineman has missed his assignment. So the best running back in the league has the second highest running back contract in the league, and you're complaining. HE’S WORTH EVERY DIME!!! ^
Saxum Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 14 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Why this year as opposed to 2015 and 2016? The OL coaching as you know.
eball Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) I'll use the same argument I've used before...Shady's number is only 5.5% of the cap. Is he worth 5.5%? I think so. 10 hours ago, Commonsense said: You started off calling someone else's post really dumb then you went on to tell us that a guy who averaged 4.0 YPC is the best running back in the league. Orleans Darkwa played for a worse offense in NY and averaged 4.4 YPC. The team is in position to ride out Shady's deal, unless they make a big play for Cousins. I don't see McBeane upsetting the chemistry by asking McCoy to take a haircut but if you believe Shady was/is the best RB in the league then you should watch more games. Shady's time as the leagues best has past by. He has been a good solider since coming to Buffalo and I can see why people want him to get what he deserves, no need to exaggerate. I'll save @Shaw66 the time. That's really dumb. Edited January 19, 2018 by eball
NewEra Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 He’s has more yards rushing than any running back in the league since his rookie season. He’s so worth it. I hope that we keep him the remaining 2 years.
Shaw66 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 12 hours ago, Commonsense said: You started off calling someone else's post really dumb then you went on to tell us that a guy who averaged 4.0 YPC is the best running back in the league. Orleans Darkwa played for a worse offense in NY and averaged 4.4 YPC. The team is in position to ride out Shady's deal, unless they make a big play for Cousins. I don't see McBeane upsetting the chemistry by asking McCoy to take a haircut but if you believe Shady was/is the best RB in the league then you should watch more games. Shady's time as the leagues best has past by. He has been a good solider since coming to Buffalo and I can see why people want him to get what he deserves, no need to exaggerate. I said one of the best, not the best. It's really very simple: The way to determine the best running backs in the league is to imagine you're putting together a team for one season, 2018, and you can have any running back you want, for a free. Age isn't a consideration, contract, none of that. Just ask a simple question: which running back do you want? You're taking Orleans Darkwa before you'd take Shady. Good for you. You're maybe the only GM in the country who would do that. If I'm taking a running back, Shady's somewhere around fifth on my list, behind Bell, Elliott, maybe the guy in Atlanta and I'm sure there are one or two more. But Bell and Elliott may be the only two that everyone would agree on. Shady's in the top five of anyone who's thinking clearly about this. It's a simple, demonstrable fact that Shady's been, on average, the best running back in the league over the past seven or eight years. Not the best in every season - in fact - he's had the best season only once or twice over that period. But he's consistently, more so than any other back, in the top 5 over that period. The only question with Shady in 2018 is whether he's lost his edge. Based on 2017, I think the answer is pretty clear - not so much that it matters. In 2017 Shady was, once again, one of the very best running backs in the league. You can cherry pick data, like yards per attempt, but use your eyes and your brains. Those runs for losses, they were largely the fault of the oline. All through the 2017 season, people complained here bitterly, not about Shady but about the fact that the O coordinator and the Oline coach changed the offensive line run blocking scheme. Why did people complain? Because defenders were in the backfield all the time, that's why. I get that there are other considerations. I get that you might believe, and I'll agree with you, that it may not be worth spending top dollar for one of the best running backs, because you can have an Orleans Darkwa for a lot less, and he'll give you nice production. And if Shady had three-years left on a big contract, it might make sense to let him go. But that's not the situation. Shady is a legitimate top-five running back getting paid what top-five running backs get paid. In 2017 he clearly was still in his prime, and there's no reason to believe he won't still be there in 2018. He gives you an advantage over Orleans Darkwa because, well, he's just better. He's been better than just about everyone for several years. He gets yardage that others don't get. He plays hurt. He catches passes. He's just better. Is he so much better that he's worth the extra money he gets? Maybe not. But he's better, and when 1:00 Sunday afternoon comes around, I'm glad the Bills have him on the field instead of Orleans Darkwa.
Royale with Cheese Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 13 hours ago, Commonsense said: You started off calling someone else's post really dumb then you went on to tell us that a guy who averaged 4.0 YPC is the best running back in the league. Orleans Darkwa played for a worse offense in NY and averaged 4.4 YPC. The team is in position to ride out Shady's deal, unless they make a big play for Cousins. I don't see McBeane upsetting the chemistry by asking McCoy to take a haircut but if you believe Shady was/is the best RB in the league then you should watch more games. Shady's time as the leagues best has past by. He has been a good solider since coming to Buffalo and I can see why people want him to get what he deserves, no need to exaggerate. Shady's numbers were down because of the run blocking and zero threat in the pass game. There was a stat not too long ago that Shady was contacted by a defender within 2 yards of the hand off which was worst in the league. It was something like 1.9 yards so basically he was having to break tackles pretty immediately. Next year I believe he will be back up at 4.5+
hemma Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 No McCoy = Unwatchable Offense If Castillo stays, I'd like to see him double up duties as the back up RB.
Luxy312 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 There's really nothing to discuss on this topic. His salary for 2018 is just over $6 million. The cap hit is $8.6 million because of prorated bonus money. If the bills cut or traded him, they would take a $5.25m cap hit in 2018. So for me, it simply comes down to whether we think he's worth $8.6 - $5.25 million or $3.35 million. More to the point, does anyone believe that we can replace McCoy's production for $3.35 million or less. If not, there's nothing to discuss. 2
Gigs Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 23 hours ago, Shotgunner said: I love Shady, but he's not worth that number. His negative yardage plays exploded this year, and those are drive killers. I won't even comment on "lil coins" other than saying the mean income for Americans in 2017 was about $46,500. You sound like your salty that unions work and it blows your mind. If you were unionized you wouldn’t be making peanuts. Or if you weren’t living in Buffalo. My wife and I were smart enough to escape that constant overcast town and now we make double doing the exact same thing and paying way less because we aren’t dumb enough to live in a depressed area with no money and having to afford $300/month just to keep the place warm. If youre mad mad at your wages don’t be jealous at someone with more talent who ended up working in a $12 billion industry with a strong enough union to make sure they get half. Snowflakes nowadays.....
CommonCents Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I said one of the best, not the best. It's really very simple: The way to determine the best running backs in the league is to imagine you're putting together a team for one season, 2018, and you can have any running back you want, for a free. Age isn't a consideration, contract, none of that. Just ask a simple question: which running back do you want? You're taking Orleans Darkwa before you'd take Shady. Good for you. You're maybe the only GM in the country who would do that. If I'm taking a running back, Shady's somewhere around fifth on my list, behind Bell, Elliott, maybe the guy in Atlanta and I'm sure there are one or two more. But Bell and Elliott may be the only two that everyone would agree on. Shady's in the top five of anyone who's thinking clearly about this. It's a simple, demonstrable fact that Shady's been, on average, the best running back in the league over the past seven or eight years. Not the best in every season - in fact - he's had the best season only once or twice over that period. But he's consistently, more so than any other back, in the top 5 over that period. The only question with Shady in 2018 is whether he's lost his edge. Based on 2017, I think the answer is pretty clear - not so much that it matters. In 2017 Shady was, once again, one of the very best running backs in the league. You can cherry pick data, like yards per attempt, but use your eyes and your brains. Those runs for losses, they were largely the fault of the oline. All through the 2017 season, people complained here bitterly, not about Shady but about the fact that the O coordinator and the Oline coach changed the offensive line run blocking scheme. Why did people complain? Because defenders were in the backfield all the time, that's why. I get that there are other considerations. I get that you might believe, and I'll agree with you, that it may not be worth spending top dollar for one of the best running backs, because you can have an Orleans Darkwa for a lot less, and he'll give you nice production. And if Shady had three-years left on a big contract, it might make sense to let him go. But that's not the situation. Shady is a legitimate top-five running back getting paid what top-five running backs get paid. In 2017 he clearly was still in his prime, and there's no reason to believe he won't still be there in 2018. He gives you an advantage over Orleans Darkwa because, well, he's just better. He's been better than just about everyone for several years. He gets yardage that others don't get. He plays hurt. He catches passes. He's just better. Is he so much better that he's worth the extra money he gets? Maybe not. But he's better, and when 1:00 Sunday afternoon comes around, I'm glad the Bills have him on the field instead of Orleans Darkwa. The Darkwa example was used to demonstrate what a bulldozer could do even behind a bad offensive line. As I said in my original post the Bills have no reason to squabble with Shady about his contract. They arent in position to go on some big FA spending spree. They need to draft and build the core of this team before considering high priced FA. I expect more value contract guys like a Hyde or Poyer and not much else. Shady has had plenty of seasons under 4.5 YPC so I'm not so quick to blame the line play. Why would shady lead the league in a stat that shows him being contacted behind the LOS? He has some part in that, even he would admit that. He has been under 4.5 YPC for 4 of the last 6 seasons. Would anyone be surprised if he is there again next year? I agree pay the man but I don't find it nessecary to exaggerate his value as a RB in 2018.
Cheektowaga Chad Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Anyone else think that shady feeling ok responding to the original tweet mean that the front office has already approached shady about a restructure?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 18 hours ago, Watkins90 said: If we had a quarterback who posed a threat to pass the ball, Shady wouldn't have had so many negative plays. Nothing the guy can really do when he is handed the ball and getting blasted before he has a chance to make a cut. I think of that 4th down playcall by Haley in Steelers-Jags. You know which one I'm talking about? It's like the poster child for ineffective play calling, and no one can claim the Steelers don't have a passing threat QB. 18 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Why this year as opposed to 2015 and 2016? Erm, not to reopen arguments about why, but a look at the stats says Taylor was more of a threat to both pass the ball and run in 2015 - and with fewer attempts.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 19, 2018 Author Posted January 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think of that 4th down playcall by Haley in Steelers-Jags. You know which one I'm talking about? It's like the poster child for ineffective play calling, and no one can claim the Steelers don't have a passing threat QB. Erm, not to reopen arguments about why, but a look at the stats says Taylor was more of a threat to both pass the ball and run in 2015 - and with fewer attempts. Exactly to the point I was trying to make with the question with the key difference being the OC and the ill-suited scheme he implemented that impacted McCoy along with the entire offense.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Exactly to the point I was trying to make with the question with the key difference being the OC and the ill-suited scheme he implemented that impacted McCoy along with the entire offense. I would agree with that. 1 hour ago, Luxy312 said: There's really nothing to discuss on this topic. His salary for 2018 is just over $6 million. The cap hit is $8.6 million because of prorated bonus money. If the bills cut or traded him, they would take a $5.25m cap hit in 2018. So for me, it simply comes down to whether we think he's worth $8.6 - $5.25 million or $3.35 million. More to the point, does anyone believe that we can replace McCoy's production for $3.35 million or less. If not, there's nothing to discuss. /thread. Seriously, from an analytics/cap perspective, Luxy has perfectly described how the team works through the value of a signed player - not the value of a player they want to sign or extend, the value of a player who is already on the roster and for whom a replacement would have to be drafted or signed. His value is the cap savings his space on the roster would give you, minus the cost of replacing him. In Shady's case, it's not as though the Bills have an existing stable of hot young runningbacks behind Shady who might bloom if given more carries. In fact, developing such a stable is a primary need.
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