JM57 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 10 hours ago, the skycap said: Bill Polian just lambasted Jackson. Says basically he's Terrell Pryor!! I certainly respect Bill Polian's opinion on players considering the stellar roster he was able to surround Manning with down the stretch in Indy. He's out of touch. He deserves credit for what he did during his career, but his opinion means nothing anymore. Come draft season, every talking head has one agency lining their pocket, and that means talking down the other agency's clients and being a shill for the "good guys." 7 hours ago, Estro said: Pass. Rudolph sucks. Weak arm, and no where near good enough accuracy to ever be a good starter in the NFL If you don't like Tyrod as a QB than you're not going to like Lamar Jackson. I do think Jackson has the ability to be a more competent passer than TT, but I don't think he'll ever be a good passer. Avg. at best. He misses way too many throws and doesn't have the accuracy necessary to perform at a high level in the NFL. I think Jackson has much more natural talent than Taylor, but definitely has some accuracy issues. If my choices are Mason Rudolph and Lamar Jackson, I'm going with Jackson because he's got the bigger arm. His accuracy leaves something to be desired, to be sure, but Rudolph has arm strength concerns. And truthfully, we have watched first hand what can happen with a weaker arm in the NFL; Nate Peterman tried to force the ball into windows that were just too tight and threw a lot of INTs that he would have gotten away with at Pitt.
WideRightRevenge Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 JM57 ... I hear you .. but will continue to respect Polian ... as it relates to the colts (see below) I will respectfully disagree. Given that pedigree and history beyond what he did for hte Bills and Panthers .. I will respect his take. In 1998, Polian was hired as President and decided to build through the draft as the Indianapolis Colts would have the number 1 overall pick for 1998; the Colts picked Peyton Manning. In 2002, he hired head coach Tony Dungy. During his tenure, the Colts led the NFL with eight consecutive playoff appearances and seven consecutive seasons of 12 victories. They won seven division titles (1999, 2003-07, 09), won the 2006 Super Bowl against the Chicago Bears, and made a second Super Bowl appearance in 2010 but would lose to the New Orleans Saints under coach Jim Caldwell. From 2000-09, the Colts (115-45) set the NFL mark for most wins in a decade and nine playoff berths tied the NFL record of Dallas in the 1970s.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, JM57 said: I certainly respect Bill Polian's opinion on players considering the stellar roster he was able to surround Manning with down the stretch in Indy. He's out of touch. He deserves credit for what he did during his career, but his opinion means nothing anymore. Come draft season, every talking head has one agency lining their pocket, and that means talking down the other agency's clients and being a shill for the "good guys." I think Jackson has much more natural talent than Taylor, but definitely has some accuracy issues. If my choices are Mason Rudolph and Lamar Jackson, I'm going with Jackson because he's got the bigger arm. His accuracy leaves something to be desired, to be sure, but Rudolph has arm strength concerns. And truthfully, we have watched first hand what can happen with a weaker arm in the NFL; Nate Peterman tried to force the ball into windows that were just too tight and threw a lot of INTs that he would have gotten away with at Pitt. Good to know you'd never draft Tom Brady if you could go back in time.
DCOrange Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, WideRightRevenge said: Bill Polian just trashed this last night on Mel Kipers 1.0 draft show .. they see him as a WR ala Terrell Pryor They may be similar athletes, but Pryor was a poor passer even by college standards. Lamar is a very good passer by college standards.
racketmaster Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 I wish Rudolph had a little more in the arm strength department but he looks to have enough to make it at the NFL level. Maybe it something he can be improve upon as a pro. Rudolph appears to be a perfect fit for Beane/McDermott as far as character and personality. Jackson concerns me for a few reasons (1) type of offense he played in at Louisville (2) Slender build and not ideal height and (3) Completion % should be higher in that offense and (4) an executive like Polian is saying Jackson should move to wr. Like many college qbs, Jackson will have some learning to do at the next level so the Petrino offense is not a huge knock. His build concerns me. Tyrod is very athletic yet NFL defenses still are able to track him down. Jackson is quicker but LBs and DBs will find him and he will take shots (how will the slender frame hold up?). Height always concerns me unless a shorter qb shows uncanny ability to manipulate the pocket and passing lanes. Mayfield appears to have this ability, have not seen the same from Jackson. Completion % should be higher in that offense so accuracy is a concern and it is difficult to improve upon at the next level. Polian's opinion is not gospel, but he was an excellent NFL executive for a long time so his opinion should not be ignored either. If he thinks Jackson is better off as a wr, that is a strong opinion and sends up a red flag for me. Essentially, Jackson reminds me of a faster Taylor but probably not built to take too many big shots at NFL level. Rudolph shows more ability to make anticipatory throws. He has a pretty good release and can stand tall and strong in the pocket. I wish he had more mobility and a bit more velocity on his sideline passes but if he did he would be a top 5 qb in draft. I like his intangibles and I bet the Bills do too.
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) Jackson is going to be a bust. I have watched a lot of his games, especially this season and he is just not accurate. His record and performances against teams with winning records are bad. He puts up big stats against bad teams and has a lot of disappointments vs teams with a winning records. He turns the ball over a lot and put up a pathetic performance in his bowl game vs Mississippi State. He is a great athlete but not a great QB. He is Michael Vick light. Same elite speed and athletic ability as Vick. Also same type of great arm strength, but the same lack of touch as Vick and although Vick wasn't the most accurate QB, imo, Jackson is less accurate. I know Jeremy White is constantly on the hype train for this guy but he is not that good of a passer. He may have a good year or two in the NFL but if people think he is going to be a star, I don't see it happening. Edited January 19, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12
starrymessenger Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, WideRightRevenge said: Bill Polian just trashed this last night on Mel Kipers 1.0 draft show .. they see him as a WR ala Terrell Pryor Hot takes and media traction? Or an in depth honest assessment? When he first came out with this in a panel discussion in mid-September the other participants laughed at him. I guess we will have to wait to find out who is right. Edited January 19, 2018 by starrymessenger
xRUSHx Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, the skycap said: Bill Polian just lambasted Jackson. Says basically he's Terrell Pryor!! Truth hurts all the Jackson fans but I totally agree with him. But. If I had no choice but to pick either Jackson or Tyrod as my QB I would 100% take Jackson. Edited January 19, 2018 by xRUSHx
BeginnersMind Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) If they can't get Cousins, they should grab a journeyman. So many teams are going for QBs this year that the value of the 4th to 7th best draft QBs will be insanely overrated. The Bills have a lot of other holes to fill. ILB, DE, RG, RT, OLB, backup RB, C...certainly none bigger than QB, but use the picks this year to fill the holes. Don't trade them away to pick a guy with multiple question marks. The nice thing about the journeyman vets is that you know what you get. Alex Smith: Known quantity. Sam Bradford: Known quantity. I don't want to delay the QB search another year either but with 12 teams looking for a new starting QB, this is a bad time to be looking. Next year will be better as most teams will have made their move and overpaid this year. Edited January 19, 2018 by BeginnersMind
Luxy312 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 If it comes down to just those two, I would take Rudolph all day over Jackson. Jackson concerns me on a number of fronts. First, he's not accurate. 59% at the college level where everything SHOULD be easier than the NFL does not impress me. His slight of frame is somewhat concerning, but he is super athletic. Last and most important is that he doesn't strike me as much of a leader. Right or wrong, I kind of view him as one-man team at Louisville. I wouldn't compare him to Tyrod Taylor, but would compare him to a young Michael Vick. I'm just not sure if I want that.
DCOrange Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: If it comes down to just those two, I would take Rudolph all day over Jackson. Jackson concerns me on a number of fronts. First, he's not accurate. 59% at the college level where everything SHOULD be easier than the NFL does not impress me. His slight of frame is somewhat concerning, but he is super athletic. Last and most important is that he doesn't strike me as much of a leader. Right or wrong, I kind of view him as one-man team at Louisville. I wouldn't compare him to Tyrod Taylor, but would compare him to a young Michael Vick. I'm just not sure if I want that. You're not wrong, but I'm confused why carrying a bad supporting cast to be one of the best offensive teams in the country and a bowl game appearance is viewed as a bad thing.
starrymessenger Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: If it comes down to just those two, I would take Rudolph all day over Jackson. Jackson concerns me on a number of fronts. First, he's not accurate. 59% at the college level where everything SHOULD be easier than the NFL does not impress me. His slight of frame is somewhat concerning, but he is super athletic. Last and most important is that he doesn't strike me as much of a leader. Right or wrong, I kind of view him as one-man team at Louisville. I wouldn't compare him to Tyrod Taylor, but would compare him to a young Michael Vick. I'm just not sure if I want that. Agree he compares with Vick, but favourably because his intangibles are better. Vick was legitimately dual threat. He had NFL arm talent but when he first came up in Atlanta he had a porous line and only really one guy, fat Algie Crumpler to throw to. If he has Vick's skill set without the character concerns I'm in.
mob16151 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Lamar Jackson,has Elway type upside. So I vote Jackson. 1
jrober38 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, mob16151 said: Lamar Jackson,has Elway type upside. So I vote Jackson. Agree with this. Jackson has elite traits. I don't know if all the pieces will come together, but he's got the upside from his traits to be a top QB if he develops his game as a pocket passer. Rudolph doesn't have any elite traits. He's not overly accurate with his ball placement, he's not mobile, and his arm is only mediocre. I don't see a guy who has a lot of upside. 1 1
mjd1001 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 I'd be happy with either as long as the Bills don't trade up. Keep both 1st round picks...get a good/great position player with one pick...and take one of the QB's with the second. That is my IDEAL scenario..if it is available.
K D Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, mob16151 said: Lamar Jackson,has Elway type upside. So I vote Jackson.
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 42 minutes ago, DCOrange said: You're not wrong, but I'm confused why carrying a bad supporting cast to be one of the best offensive teams in the country and a bowl game appearance is viewed as a bad thing. I watched a lot of Louisville this year. Lamar Jackson may not have a great supporting cast, but he still missed a lot of throws. You don't even have to look at the completion percentage, just watch the tape.
DCOrange Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: I watched a lot of Louisville this year. Lamar Jackson may not have a great supporting cast, but he still missed a lot of throws. You don't even have to look at the completion percentage, just watch the tape. He did, but he was also impacted by drops more than any other QB in this draft class. Louisville has a garbage team this season. Taking drops into account, he completed a higher percentage of his passes than Sam Darnold while playing in a more pro-style offense and was better on his deep balls than Darnold too. Not saying he's a better passer than Darnold, but I think Lamar's passing ability tends to be grossly underrated. If you watch any of this year's draft prospects, you'll see all of them miss a lot of throws. Outside of Baker Mayfield and a couple of the small school guys like Kyle Lauletta and Logan Woodside, this isn't a very good class as far as accuracy goes.
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 33 minutes ago, DCOrange said: He did, but he was also impacted by drops more than any other QB in this draft class. Louisville has a garbage team this season. Taking drops into account, he completed a higher percentage of his passes than Sam Darnold while playing in a more pro-style offense and was better on his deep balls than Darnold too. Not saying he's a better passer than Darnold, but I think Lamar's passing ability tends to be grossly underrated. If you watch any of this year's draft prospects, you'll see all of them miss a lot of throws. Outside of Baker Mayfield and a couple of the small school guys like Kyle Lauletta and Logan Woodside, this isn't a very good class as far as accuracy goes. I would counter with, although USC is a perennial power and usually fields a ton of talent, that was not the case this year and he plays in a much tougher conference, against much tougher competition. Also I know I am in the minority, but I think Darnold is overrated and probably won't be a great one.
jrober38 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: I would counter with, although USC is a perennial power and usually fields a ton of talent, that was not the case this year and he plays in a much tougher conference, against much tougher competition. Also I know I am in the minority, but I think Darnold is overrated and probably won't be a great one. USC finished as the #12 team in the country this year. Darnold had a great running back, and a lot of young talent at WR that will wind up in the NFL in a year or two. Darnold looks like the second coming of Matt Stafford. Great athletes with a big arm who get into trouble trusting their arm strength which leads to turnovers. I don't think Stafford is a great QB, but Darnold seems like a guy who should be a productive pro who starts for a while.
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