QB Film Room: Baker Mayfield

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, CritMark said:

 

OK, I can sign off on a pocket passer that can throw on the run.  No he is not the athlete Wilson is. 

 

As for Manziel, I don't see the comparison at all.  Manzeil would run at the first sign of trouble.  A lot of his completions were to throw the ball up for grabs and let Evans win the battle.  Mayfield wants to throw the ball and puts it where the receivers can rack up YAC.  Two totally different animals.

 

I don't think he's like Manziel at all. The last 2 short QBs I could think of were Wilson and Manziel so they were my comparison 

 

hes not the athlete of those 2 but he certainly is a better rhythm passer 

[CritMark]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.....wish I had the opportunity to see college ball, but I don't.....so I can't answer your question legitimately......at the same time, I see this gang coveting their draft capital and not surrendering pick(s) to move up......merely a hunch or unsubstantiated opinion....probably why I see them taking Rudolph at #21, safe but unsexy with potential.........

 

First, I agree with you.  I don't see them making a big move up.  Unfortunately, even if they were to get a veteran like Smith, I don't see them moving a great deal from where they are in the draft.  Not good enough to make a long playoff run and not bad enough to grab a top QB in the next few years.  That means if they want to move up in a future year, they would most likely have to give up a future year first.  At this there is a possibility that they could move up this year without giving up next years #1.

 

If they don't take Rudolph or another similar guy, that leaves you with Peterman or Webb.  If one can't be turned into something serviceable, what do you do when the veteran rental leaves?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, CritMark said:

 

First, I agree with you.  I don't see them making a big move up.  Unfortunately, even if they were to get a veteran like Smith, I don't see them moving a great deal from where they are in the draft.  Not good enough to make a long playoff run and not bad enough to grab a top QB in the next few years.  That means if they want to move up in a future year, they would most likely have to give up a future year first.  At this there is a possibility that they could move up this year without giving up next years #1.

 

If they don't take Rudolph or another similar guy, that leaves you with Peterman or Webb.  If one can't be turned into something serviceable, what do you do when the veteran rental leaves?

 

 

....EXACTLY.......cannot grab a one year rental and go into 2019 with Peterman, Webb and a 2018 1st round QB TBD.......and the other vet options are slim.....Keenum gets re-signed by Vikes for possible Glennon type money IMO...he cannot expect more for one good season......allegedly Bridgewater won't accept back up/incentive laden money....good luck Teddy....McCarron's UFA/RFA case is ruled upon by arbitrator on Feb 15.....is he worth the tender?.....Stanton is a UFA coming off 2 years, $6.5 mil with Cards.....is he worth a vet bridge deal?.....Cousins and Carr++ money in the same sentence is pathetically laughable.....mediocrity breeds contempt and he IS mediocre.....Beane and his gang certainly have their work cut out for them...stay tuned...........

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/17/2018 at 5:20 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

I would trade up too.

But then you hear jim  Mora say he is a second rounder, so it makes me wonder where he is really ranked amongst GMs?

 

Hmmm, what player would Mora have an interest in promoting, and maybe talking down other guys?

[CritMark]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....EXACTLY.......cannot grab a one year rental and go into 2019 with Peterman, Webb and a 2018 1st round QB TBD.......and the other vet options are slim.....Keenum gets re-signed by Vikes for possible Glennon type money IMO...he cannot expect more for one good season......allegedly Bridgewater won't accept back up/incentive laden money....good luck Teddy....McCarron's UFA/RFA case is ruled upon by arbitrator on Feb 15.....is he worth the tender?.....Stanton is a UFA coming off 2 years, $6.5 mil with Cards.....is he worth a vet bridge deal?.....Cousins and Carr++ money in the same sentence is pathetically laughable.....mediocrity breeds contempt and he IS mediocre.....Beane and his gang certainly have their work cut out for them...stay tuned...........

 

I feel slightly different.  I would be fine with an Alex Smith type rental for a year and a top QB rookie.  I just don't think they guy you can get at 21 will make the current situation much better in 2019.  If that's the thought, let's see what Webb actually is.  I would prefer to trade up if possible.

 

I think that is what someone like the Giants are thinking.  They aren't drafting this high very often.  Irrespective of who they have as their starter in 2018, I will be stunned if they don't take a QB. 

 

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Hmmm, what player would Mora have an interest in promoting, and maybe talking down other guys?

 

Wait, are you saying an NFL exec would intentionally try to mislead other teams heading in to the draft?  Say it ain't so.  ;-)

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, CritMark said:

 

I feel slightly different.  I would be fine with an Alex Smith type rental for a year and a top QB rookie.  I just don't think they guy you can get at 21 will make the current situation much better in 2019.  If that's the thought, let's see what Webb actually is.  I would prefer to trade up if possible.

 

I think that is what someone like the Giants are thinking.  They aren't drafting this high very often.  Irrespective of who they have as their starter in 2018, I will be stunned if they don't take a QB. 

 

 

Wait, are you saying an NFL exec would intentionally try to mislead other teams heading in to the draft?  Say it ain't so.  ;-)

 

 

...in reality, you're probably right bud....just a bit of overzealous thinking on my part to get 2 years out of the guy.......maybe a 3rd and no extension deal is what may happen.......

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, CritMark said:

Wait, are you saying an NFL exec would intentionally try to mislead other teams heading in to the draft?  Say it ain't so.  ;-)

 

Well that too, but in this case I was thinking Jim Mora would naturally pump for his guy Rosen

[CritMark]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well that too, but in this case I was thinking Jim Mora would naturally pump for his guy Rosen

 

You were thinking specific and I was thinking general.  Same premise.

[LEBills]

4 hours ago, CritMark said:

 

OK, I can sign off on a pocket passer that can throw on the run.  No he is not the athlete Wilson is. 

 

As for Manziel, I don't see the comparison at all.  Manzeil would run at the first sign of trouble.  A lot of his completions were to throw the ball up for grabs and let Evans win the battle.  Mayfield wants to throw the ball and puts it where the receivers can rack up YAC.  Two totally different animals.

Baker isn’t really a pocket passer right now. He makes some plays from the pocket. He is short tho and drifts out of the pocket a lot so he can see downfield.

 

He is a much more nuanced passer than Manziel was and processes info well. But he is going to have to learn to be like Brees in finding his lanes while staying in the pocket a lot more. Took Brees a couple of years and it will probably take Mayfield some time too but if he figures it out he will be dynamite.

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, LEBills said:

Baker isn’t really a pocket passer right now. He makes some plays from the pocket. He is short tho and drifts out of the pocket a lot so he can see downfield.

 

He is a much more nuanced passer than Manziel was and processes info well. But he is going to have to learn to be like Brees in finding his lanes while staying in the pocket a lot more. Took Brees a couple of years and it will probably take Mayfield some time too but if he figures it out he will be dynamite.

 

He's not a very nuanced pocket passer yet because he tends to get happy feet but he definitely isn't a dual threat at the NFL level 

 

he has gotten better at seeing those running lanes as passing lanes but it's a whole different animal in the NFL

 

Brees is the only modern 6' QB to do it from the pocket successfully long term 

[LEBills]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

He's not a very nuanced pocket passer yet because he tends to get happy feet but he definitely isn't a dual threat at the NFL level 

 

he has gotten better at seeing those running lanes as passing lanes but it's a whole different animal in the NFL

 

Brees is the only modern 6' QB to do it from the pocket successfully long term 

I agree he is not a nuanced pocket passer. But he is a nuanced passer when he is allowed to move away from his pocket. He makes very good decisions and throws when he is allowed to play the way he is comfortable.

 

and good to hear we are in agreement that he will need to learn to play different in the pros because it’s only going to get harder to see passing lanes when the game gets faster. And the odds are stacked against him with Brees being his only predecessor that has found success. I think Brees was the better athlete coming out of college too so Mayfield is really going to be reality checked at the NFL level with the talent he will be competi against. It’s going to be interesting, and I’m rooting for him like I am all QBs in this class.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, LEBills said:

I agree he is not a nuanced pocket passer. But he is a nuanced passer when he is allowed to move away from his pocket. He makes very good decisions and throws when he is allowed to play the way he is comfortable.

 

and good to hear we are in agreement that he will need to learn to play different in the pros because it’s only going to get harder to see passing lanes when the game gets faster. And the odds are stacked against him with Brees being his only predecessor that has found success. I think Brees was the better athlete coming out of college too so Mayfield is really going to be reality checked at the NFL level with the talent he will be competi against. It’s going to be interesting, and I’m rooting for him like I am all QBs in this class.

 

He is a very nuanced thrower overall. His timing and rhythm are top notch and he has a snappy delivery which I really like to boost 

 

I agree Brees might be the better overall athlete coming out. His athleticism is really underrated. Not that baker isn't a good athlete, just slightly less of one

[LEBills]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

He is a very nuanced thrower overall. His timing and rhythm are top notch and he has a snappy delivery which I really like to boost 

 

I agree Brees might be the better overall athlete coming out. His athleticism is really underrated. Not that baker isn't a good athlete, just slightly less of one

I was fairly young but I used to love watching Brees at Purdue. He was such a fun QB to watch and really wanted the Bills to draft him bc I was a fan, not because I knew he’d be a HOF. I think Baker is fun like Brees was, so I hope he has a similar career.

 

for anybody that wants to see Brees in college:

 

[Buffalo716]

20 minutes ago, LEBills said:

I was fairly young but I used to love watching Brees at Purdue. He was such a fun QB to watch and really wanted the Bills to draft him bc I was a fan, not because I knew he’d be a HOF. I think Baker is fun like Brees was, so I hope he has a similar career.

 

for anybody that wants to see Brees in college:

 

 

Watching that just made me smile

 

His footwork is so damn impressive 

[Roundybout]

 

 

 

[K-9]

37 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

 

 

“If you see the guy open, you’re too late.” 

 

Perhaps the single most consice explanation of a QB’s challenge as a passer in the NFL.

[CritMark]

49 minutes ago, K-9 said:

“If you see the guy open, you’re too late.” 

 

Perhaps the single most consice explanation of a QB’s challenge as a passer in the NFL.

 

Kinda reminds me of the quote by Wayne Gretzky "I skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it has been". 

 

He is saying the right things and doing the right things.  I hope he carries that through and has a great career.  I guess I'm just a sucker for the underdog. 

[section122]

On 1/23/2018 at 12:17 PM, YoloinOhio said:

What are your thoughts on this... clearly it can be developed further but cuts a bit into his readiness as an nfl prospect pertaining to accuracy 

 

While I haven’t tallied the volume splits for the examples above, I would be shocked if less than 25 percent of Mayfield’s long pass plays were of this variety. I wouldn’t be surprised if they accounted for 35-45 percent of his big-play completions.

 

That is a direct quote from the article.  This guy takes the time to come out with an article knocking Mayfield but doesn't take the time to actually come up with the numbers.  Lazy journalism imo.  He may be right but this article isn't a convincing argument to me.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/17/2018 at 4:27 PM, Buffalo716 said:

(....)

Baker really needs to clean up his consistency at the next level. His field vision is inconsistent and he must fix that to continue his development 

 

He also has spotty lower body mechanics. As I said earlier , he can spin it 60 yards backfoot... key word backfoot. If Baker was more consistent with his lower body mechanics his arm talent will rise even more. 

 

Baker can get happy feet in the pocket and leave too early at times. He gets away with it in college but must refine his game in the NFL

 

 

So let me ask you this.  I went back and watched some more film of him, and IMHO I see him do what Taylor does at times - he squirts out of the pocket when he could sometimes step up and make the throw, and I also see lonely guys downfield going "yoooo hoooo!  over here...Yoooo hooo!" at times.  I assume that's what you mean by "inconsistent field vision" and "happy feet...leave too early at times". 

 

One question I had and couldn't tell from the commercial film view I watched is, was this in part a size issue, where his vision of the open guy was blocked by the lines?  Can you shed any insight on that?  How much do you think his size will be a real handicap?

 

He's certainly a dynamic player and in the additional film I watched his footwork and stance didn't look as weird to me, I wonder if it was affected by field conditions or something in the first games I saw.

[Buffalo716]

30 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So let me ask you this.  I went back and watched some more film of him, and IMHO I see him do what Taylor does at times - he squirts out of the pocket when he could sometimes step up and make the throw, and I also see lonely guys downfield going "yoooo hoooo!  over here...Yoooo hooo!" at times.  I assume that's what you mean by "inconsistent field vision" and "happy feet...leave too early at times". 

 

One question I had and couldn't tell from the commercial film view I watched is, was this in part a size issue, where his vision of the open guy was blocked by the lines?  Can you shed any insight on that?  How much do you think his size will be a real handicap?

 

He's certainly a dynamic player and in the additional film I watched his footwork and stance didn't look as weird to me, I wonder if it was affected by field conditions or something in the first games I saw.

 

That is basically what I meant by happy feet and inconsistent field vision.

 

Baker sometimes has the ability to step up but he gets happy feet and leaves the pocket. He doesn't have bad field vision by any means either...it can just get inconsistent and miss some guys sometimes 

 

as for his size... All short QBs have to learn how to see "running lanes" as passing lanes... those tiny lanes that TT takes off through... Baker needs to be able to utilize them as a passing lane. Drew Brees is a master of sliding in the pocket and finding the throwing lane. It's why he has survived when other short QBs failed

 

It is not easy and many Short QBs struggle with this but I wouldn't bet against Baker on figuring it out