I hope last weekend finally kills the "you need a Franchise QB to be a contender" nonsense

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Hold on now.......to put that call into perspective........Keenum was AWFUL with the Rams (9 TD 11 INT) despite having a superstar RB in Todd Gurley in the backfield.   His WR corps was not good at all.   Sound like a familiar situation?

 

Because Tyrod was in a very similar situation this year as Keenum was with the Rams.

 

But unlike Keenum with the Rams......TT's athleticism allowed him to compete and win games.    

 

Passing game weapons matter even more for non-franchise guys like Keenum and Tyrod.

 

Thielen and Diggs are as good of a 1-2 punch at WR as there is in the NFL.  And the Vikings GREAT defense allowed Keenum to play in a balanced offense.   He's not a gunslinger you want trying to carry you with the passing game.  

 

Now *maybe* Dropzone Jones and Jordan Matthews would have been playmakers for him in Dennison's offense....... but I HIGHLY doubt that.

 

Keenum probably struggles and gets battered like he did in LA and the Bills are drafting much higher and replacing him with a QB anyway.

 

 

 

Except I actually watched those Rams games. Every single one. His stats were worse than the tape. It was the same once Goff took over. 

 

This is just a repeat of the mistake you have consistently made Badol. You think Tyrod is better than he is. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by GunnerBill

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Except I actually watched those Rams games. Every single one. His stats were worse than the tape. It was the same once Goff took over. 

 

 

Clearly his stats weren't reflective of his ability.......9 TD 11 interceptions in this era of inflated TD/INT ratios is GHASTLY.   Horrific.  That's TJ Yates bad.

 

But what it does reflect is his floor.    

 

Most of his career has been played at floor level.

 

And 2017 was set up to be a "floor" year for any QB in Buffalo.    

 

 

 

 

 

   

[Foxx]

On 1/16/2018 at 11:10 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

For months, we've heard...

 

"You can't win with Tyrod!" 

 

"Tyrod is one of the worst QBs in the league!"

 

"The Bills could never be a serious contender with Tyrod!"

 

But then we made the playoffs for the first time this millennium. And after watching warranted frequent punchline Blake Bortles over the weekend be fortunate enough to be on a team talented enough to beat an all-time great like Ben Roethlisberger, who threw for more than double the yards and 5 times the TDs as Bortles, I really think that stuff can end now. 

 

If even Blake Bortles is capable of making an AFC Championship and Tyrod made the playoffs when countless people didn't even give him a shot at being a QB leading a team to the playoffs, then perhaps the world won't end if McDermott and Beane decide to keep Taylor for one more year to make a playoff run.

 

 

PS: This thread is largely tongue in cheek.

 

Some are about to absolutely flip out. Some will "get it." Truth be told, we're drafting a QB in the 1st, as we should. Taylor might be traded as part of a package to move up. but I think he's more likely a Bill than not. 

 

But Taylor really is better than Bortles, the King of Garbage Time.  

 

oh boy....

[Dadonkadonk]

On 1/16/2018 at 1:18 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

What a load of horse crap.

 

Again and again you hear the same arguments against you. Because they make sense.

 

And yet when it comes time for you to try to paraphrase, you're off in fantasyland making up straw men. Again and again.

 

Virtually nobody said, "You can't win with Tyrod." It was obvious you could. The last three years we've won games. Not a ton but some. A very slight majority of the games he's started. Of course you can win with Tyrod. There were a few trolls who said, "Tyrod is one of the worst QBs in the league.!" Nobody else. Every non-troll here understands that he's one of the top 32 QBs in the league. No non-trolls on here would have the faintest problem finding twenty-five backup QBs that anyone would know Tyrod is a great deal better than. 

 

As usual it's better to make up stupid arguments to put in people's mouths, as they're easy to counter than to counter the actual good arguments about Tyrod and franchise QBs. Such as, "Having a franchise QB gives you a chance to be competitive for championships for a decade or more." Such as, "Tyrod can get you to the playoffs, as can nearly any QB with a little luck, but Tyrod doesn't get you a championship unless you have a surrounding team virtually without weaknesses, a defense comparable with defenses like the Ravens defense the year they won with or the Bears the year they won with Dilfer or the Bears the year they won with McMahon, or Tampa Bay's championship.

 

 

And in any case, Bortles is in the same neighborhood as Taylor. Tyrod may be better by a whisker. But Bortles is in his fourth year and still improving at a pretty good rate. Whereas going on his eighth year, we've known Tyrod's ceiling for a while now. Not so with Bortles. Bortles' fourth year has been significantly better, for instance, than Eli Manning's had played in any of his first four years. Nor has Bortles himself made a Super Bowl yet, much less made his team consistent for championships over a long period of time.

 

Bortles might be at his ceiling now. Or he might get a lot better next year. But we know Tyrod won't.

You must not read most of the posts. There are far more antiTT posts than just a few trolls. They had eat crow after week 17 but came back with vengeance after the bad game against Jax.  TT made bad throws in that game but had just as many drops and poor play calls as bad throws.

Doesnt matter. They will or will not bring him back and they will draft another QB. We will know in a few weeks.  

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

oh boy....

 

 

[CanadianFan]

Jags being a "contender" is a misnomer. They can't win it all with Bortles. I hope they prove me wrong but they won't. They got a great D, their years of tanking along with a stable front office allowed them to draft players of a certain mold successfully (except QB). Now they are arguably a QB away from being a title contender. 

 

[BillsVet]

Funny to see people observe that one weekend's worth of playoff games somehow eliminates what we've known for several seasons. That is, having a top QB is imperative to perennial success in this league and barring that, strong skill players and a very good or better defense is necessary.

 

Minnesota, Jacksonville, and Philadelphia boast the latter. New England the former. 

 

It doesn't remove the fact Buffalo needs upgrades at their skill positions and the front 7 on defense. 

[ColoradoBills]

I can live without having the next Peyton Manning/Tom Brady on my team.

 

I just want a top 12 QB for 4-5 years in a row.

Can I have that PLEASE.

[Foxx]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

I can live without having the next Peyton Manning/Tom Brady on my team.

 

I just want a top 12 QB for 4-5 years in a row.

Can I have that PLEASE.

by which metric?

 

according to some metrics out there, we did have a top 12 qb the last three years.

 

:hahahahahaahahahaaahahaaaa:

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Foxx said:

by which metric?

 

according to some metrics out there, we did have a top 12 qb the last three years.

 

:hahahahahaahahahaaahahaaaa:

 

Nice!

I would prefer a "metric" one does not have to contort oneself to agree with.

 

Real World Scenario:

 

Down 4 points.  Bills got the ball on their own 25 yard line.

1 timeout, 2 minutes left.

I personally have a feeling that the Bills have a greater than 10% chance of winning the game.

 

[MJS]

On 1/18/2018 at 4:00 PM, reddogblitz said:

 

Let's just run down to the Quikee Mart and pick one up then.

 

Yeah, it's called the draft.

[BADOLBILZ]

17 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

We didn't know that Dennison was going to be useless in Tyrod's and Peterman's development before the season started and so I actually did expect Taylor to further develop.

 

"Why didn't McCoy GREATLY IMPROVE then?" Because we now know that the run game coordinator/line coach wasn't an upgrade either as both the run game and line regressed. The run game stats besides rushing TDs did get somewhat better later on in the season but I attribute that more to McCoy's ability to make defenders miss over the blocking of the line. 

 

There was a real reason as to why Dennison was fired and I'm hoping that Castillio follows him out the door. 

 

I was a big fan of Tyrod Taylor until this past year when I saw what Taylor looked like in some games. Most particularly in that Saints game in Buffalo. The Bills drive chart went FG-PUNT-PUNT-PUNT-INTERCEPTION-PUNT-PUNT-DOWNS-TD that one and only TD with 1:10 left in the game was by Nathan Peterman. Peterman stats in the same game against that Saints defense in the fourth quarter. 7 of 10 for 79 yards, 1 TD. A 126.7 rate.  Kelvin Benjamin actually saw the ball a few times.

 

Week 2 against Carolina, Taylor went 17 of 25 for 125 yards-0-0. The entire game. 

 

Week 10 against the Saints, Taylor went 9 of 18 for 56 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT with a rate of 33.6 in 3/4 of that game. This performance got him benched.

 

Week 13 against New England, Taylor went 15 of 34 for 115 yards-0-1 INT. a rate of 35.6 The entire game. 

 

Wildcard game at Jacksonville, Taylor went 18 of 40 for 148 yards-0-2 INTs. a rate of 44.2

 

It's not a narrative in my mind, its a fact! 

 

 

 

No,  I'm right.......you are wrong........ it's a narrative.

 

Tyrod has proven plenty competent as an NFL starting QB.

 

He's produced, he's won without the help of good defenses and he's the NFL's all time leader in lowest int %.

 

He's competent.

 

You want to talk stats?.......was Case Keenum incompetent when he put up 9 TD's and 11 interceptions and got benched with the Rams last year?

 

Keenum's floor is very low........he needs a lot of help to accentuate his skills.......he got that in Minnesota with the top WR tandem and #1 defense in the NFL......... to keep him from over-exposure as a passer(see that lollipop interception to Marcus Williams last week to see how a Case Keenum shootout would look).

 

Tyrod needs playmakers in the WR corps to excel as a passer as well...........he's a catalyst when blended with playmakers and that's how his offenses lead the NFL in big plays in 2015 and 2016.........but his floor is higher than Keenum because he can extend plays or make plays with his feet when protection breaks down.    

 

That allowed him to nurse this Bills team.......with arguably the least talented defense in the NFL and definitely the worst WR corps.......to a 9-7 finish.

 

I get that fans feel like they are entitled to see their QB "Greatly Improve" regardless of the team's circumstance but wanting that does not mean it's actually reasonable to expect.

 

This season would have been a "floor" season for any NFL QB in Buffalo.    

 

[Teddy KGB]

48 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

This season would have been a "floor" season for any NFL QB in Buffalo.    

 

 

2015 —— 28th in passing 

2016 —— 30th in passing 

2017 —— 31st In passing.  

 

Its always a floor when Tyrod is your qb.  

[row_33]

A team has to win each game and sometimes the stars align to have two or more garbage teams in a semi-final

 

 

[Nihilarian]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No,  I'm right.......you are wrong........ it's a narrative.

 

Tyrod has proven plenty competent as an NFL starting QB.

 

He's produced, he's won without the help of good defenses and he's the NFL's all time leader in lowest int %.

 

He's competent.

 

You want to talk stats?.......was Case Keenum incompetent when he put up 9 TD's and 11 interceptions and got benched with the Rams last year?

 

Keenum's floor is very low........he needs a lot of help to accentuate his skills.......he got that in Minnesota with the top WR tandem and #1 defense in the NFL......... to keep him from over-exposure as a passer(see that lollipop interception to Marcus Williams last week to see how a Case Keenum shootout would look).

 

Tyrod needs playmakers in the WR corps to excel as a passer as well...........he's a catalyst when blended with playmakers and that's how his offenses lead the NFL in big plays in 2015 and 2016.........but his floor is higher than Keenum because he can extend plays or make plays with his feet when protection breaks down.    

 

That allowed him to nurse this Bills team.......with arguably the least talented defense in the NFL and definitely the worst WR corps.......to a 9-7 finish.

 

I get that fans feel like they are entitled to see their QB "Greatly Improve" regardless of the team's circumstance but wanting that does not mean it's actually reasonable to expect.

 

This season would have been a "floor" season for any NFL QB in Buffalo.    

 

I wouldn't be upset should the Bills keep Tyrod Taylor and attempt to further develop him under Brian Deball. All the while drafting a top rookie QB to groom as his replacement or even thinking that Peterman will eventually develop into that role. 

 

I'm just so tired of seeing my teams QB listed as one of the worst in the league while the team finishing the season second or near worst in the division year after year for 22 years. Yeah, its been 1995 since this team won the AFC EAST. That's 11 head coaches and countless/endless bad QBs.  

 

While I've been a big fan of Tyrod Taylor since he has been in Buffalo up until this season I'm really hoping the Bills move on to a better bridge QB and/or one of the top rookies.

 

Buffalo Bills fans deserve to have a top five QB who can compete for the division. 

[transplantbillsfan]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Indeed. In fact I was told this time last year that wanting to replace Tyrod with Keenum and cap space was willfully downgrading the Quarterback position.....

 

There are some "anybody but Tyrod" folks. And they do over exaggerate his flaws. There are also too many way too comfortable with what we have based on the evidence what we have has put on tape. 

 

Keenum would have sucked under Dennison.

 

#OCsMATTER!  ?

[Teddy KGB]

11 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Keenum would have sucked under Dennison.

 

#OCsMATTER!  ?

 

You cant say that.      He isn’t scared of wideouts like Taylor is.  

Edited January 21, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Tatonka68]

You need a Franchise QB to be consistent Contender. One or two flukes don't change that. Plus I want a franchise QB. You know damn well Brady winning another ring. 

[transplantbillsfan]

5 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

You don’t that.      He isn’t scared of wideouts like Taylor is.  

 

I don't that what?

 

The Bills don't really have WRs, or didn't in 2017.

 

What were Keenum's first 5 years in the NFL like?

 

#OCsMATTER.

[Teddy KGB]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I don't that what?

 

The Bills don't really have WRs, or didn't in 2017.

 

What were Keenum's first 5 years in the NFL like?

 

#OCsMATTER.

 

Whatever helps with your post Taylor depression. 

 

Disparaging Keenum and Bortles makes you feel better, run with it.