Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, chris heff said: I’m confused, how is an offense designed by Ray Perkins and Ron Erhardt a modern 2018 NFL offense? I think it's really just in conceptualizing the offense, and naming plays. 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: It's not the offense its verbiage . its football, it over a hundred years old. Everybody runs the same plays. what changes from team to team is verbiage and concepts the three three main verbiage offense are the west coast which is a memory offense the Coryel which is a route tree offense and the erhardt/Perkins which is not ran by route tree but by concepts You said it better. I think it lends to a better no huddle attack once everyone is on the same page - but that might just be brady being good.
BuffaloBill Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 The Bills hired him because they obviously want a concept change. I also wonder if running the same offense as your key competitor makes it better for your d. They practice against it all the time now. 6
Rubes Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 Sounds reasonable. In the end, what really matters is having a QB who can read the defense, find the right receiver, and put it in exactly the right spot. 4 1
Logic Posted January 15, 2018 Author Posted January 15, 2018 33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Not meaning to pick nits or rain on this thread, but several links (including the first one) were posted and referenced in the original Daboll thread yesterday, along with the suggestion to google 'Ehrhardt Perkins' - which turns up a lot of hits - including these. Fair enough. I combed through about 20 pages of the Daboll thread and didn't see it, then got frustrated by the whining and backed out to the main forum. Apologies for re-posting something that was already covered. 1
eball Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Logic said: Agreed. It would be nice to see a 2018 passing offense rather than a 1998 1978 passing offense. Fixed for accuracy. 2
K-9 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Logic said: Agreed. It would be nice to see a 2018 passing offense rather than a 1998 passing offense. Be nice to see a QB that can execute a 2018 passing offense.
JaCrispy Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Misterbluesky said: I guess getting a speedster at wr is not on the top of the priority list now.Woods would have been good in this "system". Perhaps...I would like to see us draft a Julien Edelman or Wes Welker type receiver- that is quick in small spaces. That type of receiver is so key to the Pats sustaining their drives.
Buffalo716 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Perhaps...I would like to see us draft a Julien Edelman or Wes Welker type receiver- that is quick in small spaces. That type of receiver is so key to the Pats sustaining their drives. For that type of WR to thrive you literally need one of the most accurate QBs in the world ala Brady, Brees, Rodgers , Ryan Not that there's a crazy difference between 5'9 and 6'0 but there is in the NFL lol id be pumped to get a refined route runner next year tho hopefully closer to 6'0
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 This offense seems like it could be a amazing offense with elite talent to run it. With a QB like Alex Smith or AJ McCarron running it with our current offensive talent I could see us moving up 10 to 15 spots in total offense and scoring offense.
FLFan Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 48 minutes ago, Logic said: Fair enough. I combed through about 20 pages of the Daboll thread and didn't see it, then got frustrated by the whining and backed out to the main forum. Apologies for re-posting something that was already covered. Thank you. You were right to do this. The main thread has literally nothing of a serious analysis, just opinions based on superficial looks at his biography, and a few quotes. This had the potential to be lost in the muck and deserves its own thread in my opinion. 4
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 Now all we need is a quarterback with a head on his shoulders and some vision. Accuracy would certainly help as well. We can only hope.
chris heff Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: It's not the offense its verbiage . its football, it over a hundred years old. Everybody runs the same plays. what changes from team to team is verbiage and concepts the three three main verbiage offense are the west coast which is a memory offense the Coryel which is a route tree offense and the erhardt/Perkins which is not ran by route tree but by concepts I’m still confused,it’s a conceptual offense? Not to bring up a sore subject, but when EJ was the QB one of the criticisms was that he came from dumbed down offense at FSU. That offense really only had a handful of plays that were run out of multiple formations. Isn’t that what Perkins/Erhardt offense is?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, MDFan said: Thank you. You were right to do this. The main thread has literally nothing of a serious analysis, just opinions based on superficial looks at his biography, and a few quotes. This had the potential to be lost in the muck and deserves its own thread in my opinion. "Logic" and others had the very fair point that when threads are too long people understandably don't want to wade through them, but you are incorrect. The original thread had EXACTLY this information. 10 minutes ago, chris heff said: I’m still confused,it’s a conceptual offense? Not to bring up a sore subject, but when EJ was the QB one of the criticisms was that he came from dumbed down offense at FSU. That offense really only had a handful of plays that were run out of multiple formations. Isn’t that what Perkins/Erhardt offense is? The Patriots offensive playbook is quite thick, don't doubt I am by far not the right person to explain this simply and correctly. I dug around a bit and found this article from 2011, interviewing Bill Belicheck (sorry about that) which may help. Edit: Gah, or maybe not, it's not the one I thought it was. This one may be more help. The fundamental principle as I understand it is you can run the exact same passing routes and combinations of passing routes under any of these systems. But in the WCO, it's all spelled out precisely for each skill player. The same play executed on the left or the right has a different playcall. In E-P, combinations of routes are grouped together and described by a single word, and who does what is determined by where the players line up combined with the play call. So it's easier to understand the similarities and to minimize the reads the QB has to memorize. Edited January 15, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 2
Shaw66 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 Thanks for the post. Interesting article from Grantland. Really doesn't say a lot about philosophy. Just passing terminology. But I'm happy to have anyone out of the Belichick/Saban tree.
stevewin Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 But is the Erhardt-Perkins concept flexible enough to accommodate the Joe Webb Package? 4
Buffalo716 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, chris heff said: I’m still confused,it’s a conceptual offense? Not to bring up a sore subject, but when EJ was the QB one of the criticisms was that he came from dumbed down offense at FSU. That offense really only had a handful of plays that were run out of multiple formations. Isn’t that what Perkins/Erhardt offense is? To a point. Again, everybody runs the same plays to a degree. The difference is some teams (good teams) will add a few more concepts than bad teams in the west coast offense the verbiage is all memory. To oversimplify, the system uses what is essentially a memory system. On running plays, the same two-digit numbering system as most NFL and college teams is used. Passing plays, however, are typically denoted by the primary receiver’s route, such as Z- in x- hook , while the rest of the players are required to memorize their task. These plays can be 15 words long sometimes longer The Coryell system is similar to the west coast but relaces the verbiage with the route tree. So you can have a play called 896 and all receivers would know what to do . but the 1 back system has rendered this all but obsolete because you must add in west coast verbiage as well the erhardt/ Perkins verbiage is based all around the concepts of the offense. So you can have choice combinations , in combinations, flood, etc and they all mean something to everyone when called Edited January 15, 2018 by Buffalo716 1
H2o Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: So maybe Alex Smith is someone they go after strongly with this offense? This was my thought after reading about the offense. You will need a smart QB who can process info quickly to get the ball to the correct man. I think Cousins would be a good option as well, but it comes down to the $$$ they want to spend. Alex Smith would only be a bridge to a rookie we draft in the 1st or 2nd. Cousins would be the guy for the next 4 or 5 years.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 ......interesting....system used here three times before...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots_strategy SEASONS HC OC 2002 2003 Buffalo Bills Gregg Williams Kevin Gilbride 2004 2005 Buffalo Bills Mike Mularkey Tom Clements 2010 2012 Buffalo Bills Chan Gailey Curtis Modkins
145B4IDIE Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Rubes said: Sounds reasonable. In the end, what really matters is having a QB who can read the defense, find the right receiver, and put it in exactly the right spot. I'm being serious, sounds like Peterman's scouting report 1
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