Solomon Grundy Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Mat68 said: A Elite Qb no. But in the playoffs you need a Qb who is able to make big time throws to win the game. Bortles and Keenum yesterday as example. They are not elite but even throughout the season they have shown the ability to at times make big time plays that the Elite Qbs make more often. Flacco and Eli are not Elite but won Superbowls and played at a high level to do so. You need high level Qb play to advance far in the playoffs. The Qb may not need to be the first or second option but has to have the ability to do it when asked. That is the Bills problem. I think they are in line with the Steelers team when they drafted Big Ben. Pretty good D, good Running game but really need an improvement at Qb, The rookie can be a game manager and Buffalo can be successful. Get me a QB who can make plays!!!! Either with his arm or legs. Preferably both. Just make plays!!
SaviorPeterman Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 At the end of the day passing the football wins games, just ask Case Keenum and Blake Bortles who both led their teams to wins with their arms instead of relying on the perceived strengths of their teams (rushing the ball and great defense).
NewEra Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 28 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: You need a QB to at least score when needed, to step up. 3 points by a QB in a big game is not a good QB that is just not good enough . If we had a QB that played just a little better the Jags great D wouldn't have advanced in the playoffs the Bills would have IMO. Agreed. TT is not a good qb and is the main reason we lost that game imo. 3 points. Jeezus.
CountDorkula Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, ddaryl said: Defenses in the top 10 can also be a product of a potent Offense that keeps the other teams offense off the field, and your defense rested Would have to dive into that data, See Peyton Manning and Indianapolis Colts. See Kurt Warner and the greatest show on Turf Rams. 1
Young34 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 49 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Youre not really comparing the QB ratings for guys who played in completely different eras are you? Tyrod has a better career QB rating than Jim Kelly. You're right, here's a Superbowl QB list from the same era: (1999) Chris Chandler (56.7% Comp, 2339 yds, 16 TD, 11 INT, 83 QBR) (2001) Trent Dilfer (59.8% Comp, 1014 Yds, 7 TD, 4 INT, 92 QBR) (2001) Kerry Collins (57.6% Comp, 3764 Yds, 19 TD, 16 INT, 77 QBR) (2003) Brad Johnson (62.1% Comp, 3811 Yds, 26 TD, 21 INT, 81 QBR) (2004) Jake Delhomme (58.2% Comp, 3886 Yds, 29 TD, 15 INT, 87 QBR) (2007) Rex Grossman (54.2% Comp, 1411 Yds, 4 TD, 7 INT, 66 QBR) vs. (2006) JP Losman (62.5% Comp, 3051 yds, 19 TD, 14 INT, 85 QBR) My point is that you can make it to the dance with bad to mediocre QB's, and we've had mediocre QB's on our roster in the past, as stats support. The defense is the difference maker, which is where the 83% of Superbowls being won by top 10 defenses comes in. 1
K-9 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 48 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Kelly, Elway, Marino...you can't compare guys across generations by rating. It would have been great to see those three QBs playing in the era of liberalized rules favoring QBs and the passing game. Conversely, I strongly doubt Brady, Brees, Manning, and other QBs who thrived after those rules changes would amass the kinds of numbers in that previous era. 2
CountDorkula Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Young34 said: You're right, here's a Superbowl QB list from the same era: (1999) Chris Chandler (56.7% Comp, 2339 yds, 16 TD, 11 INT, 83 QBR) (2001) Trent Dilfer (59.8% Comp, 1014 Yds, 7 TD, 4 INT, 92 QBR) (2001) Kerry Collins (57.6% Comp, 3764 Yds, 19 TD, 16 INT, 77 QBR) (2003) Brad Johnson (62.1% Comp, 3811 Yds, 26 TD, 21 INT, 81 QBR) (2004) Jake Delhomme (58.2% Comp, 3886 Yds, 29 TD, 15 INT, 87 QBR) (2007) Rex Grossman (54.2% Comp, 1411 Yds, 4 TD, 7 INT, 66 QBR) vs. (2006) JP Losman (62.5% Comp, 3051 yds, 19 TD, 14 INT, 85 QBR) My point is that you can make it to the dance with bad to mediocre QB's, and we've had mediocre QB's on our roster in the past, as stats support. The defense is the difference maker, which is where the 83% of Superbowls being won by top 10 defenses comes in. SO are we just going to ignore that yesterday had dittly poo to do with Defense and it was high powered offenses that won games? You take your stout D that will be together for 2-3 years until you have to start paying everyone and it starts to fall apart. Ill take Rodgers/Brady/Breese for 15 years. 2
Young34 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, CountDorkula said: SO are we just going to ignore that yesterday had dittly poo to do with Defense and it was high powered offenses that won games? You take your stout D that will be together for 2-3 years until you have to start paying everyone and it starts to fall apart. Ill take Rodgers/Brady/Breese for 15 years. It's not my opinion, it's fact driven by stats over many years, not just from yesterday's games. "When the Atlanta Falcons face the New England Patriots in the Super Bowl on Sunday, it will be the eighth time the No. 1 scoring offense has faced the No. 1 scoring defense in the Super Bowl. And the defense has won every matchup but one." https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/super-bowl-51-new-england-patriots-atlanta-falcons-number-1-defense-vs-offense-matchups-49ers-seahawks-packers-steelers-chiefs-giants-020117
Maine-iac Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, NewEraBills said: See Baltimore Ravens from 2000 forward. Their lack offense from all those years wasted their top defensive units. Then their latest SB was because the offense got better. But since then they are back in the same boat. Their offense cannot sustain drives, the defense gets gassed and they cannot finish games. Didn't look like their offense when Dalton threw a TD on 4th and 12. They scored almost a full TD more per game than us and they would have been in but the defense didn't hold. Edited January 15, 2018 by Maine-iac
nedboy7 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 It is to bills fans it seems. Almost as if it’s the only thing that matters. Now define franchise qb.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 5 hours ago, Iron Maiden said: With an elite Defense, you can get there...and be in the hunt for 2-3 years...with an elite QB, you can get there and be in the hunt for 10 years.... ....agree IM....besides what is the definition of a franchise or elite QB?....OR....does it depend on "what the definition of IS is"?..................
Jauronimo Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 We've tried the whole no franchise QB for more than 20 years. I say we switch it up and roll the dice with a franchise QB. Variety is the spice of life. 1
GunnerBill Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 The Vikings won yesterday because when all the chips were on the table their Quarterback made a big time throw to win it for them. Yes the Saints D blew a tackle but Keenum still had to make the throw in the first place. The Vikings win is proof you do need a Quarterback not the opposite. As for Bortles and the Jags... I put that game down to anomoly. Odd game that played out strangely. If the Jags D isn't better against New England they have no chance. 1
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Maine-iac said: Didn't look like their offense when Dalton threw a TD on 4th and 12. They scored almost a full TD more per game than us and they would have been in but the defense didn't hold. Their offense was trash the entire first half mostly. Defense actually kept them in the game. Sure their defense gave up the play at the end but with them it's always been defense holds as long as it can, offense stinks it up early. Defense fades from fatigue late because offense couldn't sustain anything early. Plus since Pees took over their defense it hasn't had the killer instinct it had in the past. So you had a coordinator who played mostly bend/don't break + an offense who constantly went 3 and out the entire first half. That's a recipe for fatigue. Also I'd say check their passing stats on the year. One of the WORSE in the league. They ran the football well though. Edited January 15, 2018 by NewEraBills
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The Vikings won yesterday because when all the chips were on the table their Quarterback made a big time throw to win it for them. Yes the Saints D blew a tackle but Keenum still had to make the throw in the first place. The Vikings win is proof you do need a Quarterback not the opposite. As for Bortles and the Jags... I put that game down to anomoly. Odd game that played out strangely. If the Jags D isn't better against New England they have no chance. ....glad the upstart Vikes pulled it out....STRICTLY opinion, but I've never warmed up to Brees....good?...of course....ME player?...absolutely....STAT GUY?...absolutely again...put Saints in cap trouble with his salary demands so let's see if he does it again as a UFA or takes a Brady cut for the team....and if the Vikes sign Keenum & Bridgewater along with their defense (shades of the Purple People Eaters ala Paige, Eller, Marshall & Larsen), they could be a force for a long time.........
swnybillsfan Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 42 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: It is to bills fans it seems. Almost as if it’s the only thing that matters. Now define franchise qb. i tend to think that you need a qb that gives you (and more importantly, his coaches and teammates) the feeling that, with the ball in his hands, you are never out of it. there is always a chance. somebody that has the drive, the will, and the ability to lead the team to victory, no matter the situation. i know this is all rather vague and conceptual, but this is the guy you need. just my opinion here. 2
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, swnybillsfan said: i tend to think that you need a qb that gives you (and more importantly, his coaches and teammates) the feeling that, with the ball in his hands, you are never out of it. there is always a chance. somebody that has the drive, the will, and the ability to lead the team to victory, no matter the situation. i know this is all rather vague and conceptual, but this is the guy you need. just my opinion here. ...damn good assessment....and probably one of THE better ones I've seen without using the ELITE or FRANCHISE buzz words....nicely done.....
CajunBillsBacker Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 Out of all the Super Bowl winning starting QB’s, I counted only like 6-7 of them that aren’t in the HOF or future HOFers. The ones who sustained success through their career are all elite first ballot HOFers. So yeah it’s possible to win a Super Bowl with an average QB. Hell Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won titles, with the assistance of elite defenses, but if you want to sustain success and be a title contender every year then you need to find a young Drew Brees, or Aaron Rodgers. 2
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