Brian Daboll hired as new OC

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

He did install his own offense, I don't think he ever intended not to and I don't think he ever told the head coach that he was not going to. I believe McD interviewed him and believed him when he said Tyrod could work in his system. Obviously Tyrod couldn't work in his system but at that point there was nothing that could be done. The bed was made. I do think Dennison tried to change some of the offense to suit Tyrod but I think you are right, he's wasn't a good enough teacher to make it work. And on top of that Tyrod wasn't talented enough to be even serviceable in Dennison's offense.

 

But all of that being said, they scored enough points to win enough games to make the playoffs and that is what I meant by managing the talent of the QB. Maybe that is not the right way to say it, maybe I should say he did an admiral job managing the offense. 

 

For McD to realize his mistake and make the change to Daboll so quickly gives me even more hope that he may be a very good coach for the long term. Assuming of course eventually he makes a good decision on the leader of that side of the ball. Let's hope Daboll is that guy.

 

Again: don't confuse the system with the plays that are called.

 

Tyrod worked within a WCO system under Roman.  Technically, Dennison runs the same system and almost certainly contains close variants of the same plays. 

The question is which plays stay in the 3 (made up number of) bulging 3 ring binders, and which plays get pulled out of the binder and put in the gameplan each week.

 

The earliest identified system mismatch was called out by several here in pre-season games:  the transition to a zone blocking scheme that did not suit the size and skillset of our OL.    It was also clear Tyrod was struggling to play under center, but this was excused by Denison as asking Tyrod to improve himself and not representing what would be called during games - except it did.

 

Dennison changed the plays he put in as the season wore on, with the two most significant changes (AFAIK, keep in mind I did not buy all-22 this year) after the bye week and after the Chargers game.  But he changed them, too little and too late and also failed to make quick enough in-game adjustments.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

not defending him , but when you have 2 RB's playing QB.....  how much more can one expect from a passing attack. 

 

Yeah - it was the same with alex smith, and with CK.  Im not sure what it would have looked like with someone like Brady... but I imagine if he had goff, wentz, bortles, whomever - he'd still run a ton of pistol, read-option/triple-option stuff and have his QB taking off.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, vincec said:

Most of his success or failure is going to depend on what the Bills do at QB. In a way I feel bad for these OCs that favor the running game. People bring them in when they have crappy QBs and then blame them when the passing game flounders. Heck, Roman had the #1 running game in the NFL and still got canned.

 

Do you really think Roman got canned because the passing game floundered?

 

I think he got canned because in his second season, he went overboard on his game planning, put in too much stuff that was too cute, and refused to take input from above, below, or sideways (OQC, scouts).  That is why, with the same playbook, the offense improved magically when he got canned and a guy willing to take those inputs took over.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Do you really think Roman got canned because the passing game floundered?

 

To be fair - he never really had a good passing game.  He got canned because his game management skills were crap.  If we got the ball down 3 with 2 minutes and no timeouts... there was a 0 percent chance of even tying it.

[YoloinOhio]

12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ha, well there you go. So, what? They scored 2 less times basically?

They actually scored 6 more red zone TDs this year, but had a few more red zone trips and fewer FGs. One site i looked at showed 3% difference and another poster shared something that looked like 4%... either way it’s irrelevant imo.

Edited January 17, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Do you really think Roman got canned because the passing game floundered?

 

I think he got canned because in his second season, he went overboard on his game planning, put in too much stuff that was too cute, and refused to take input from above, below, or sideways (OQC, scouts).  That is why, with the same playbook, the offense improved magically when he got canned and a guy willing to take those inputs took over.

 

He was having the team prep somewhere like 50-60 plays for each game.  I'm all for game-planning and putting new stuff in for an opponent, but how many trap and power runs do you have?  Can't you just change the formations?

[BuffaloHokie13]

7 minutes ago, dneveu said:

He was having the team prep somewhere like 50-60 plays for each game.  I'm all for game-planning and putting new stuff in for an opponent, but how many trap and power runs do you have?  Can't you just change the formations?

We were prepping 80+ for each game. We only ran ~50 through the entire game, including duplicates.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

We were prepping 80+ for each game. We only ran ~50 through the entire game, including duplicates.

 

That's an absurd waste of time preparation.  The receivers only ran like 3 routes - what were all the plays?!

[Wayne Arnold]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

What does that mean though? What is the difference between 25th in 2016 and 46th in 2017? Truly asking as merely listing the rankings dont tell any of the story. Did other teams also get better in the red zone while Bama stayed the same, which effectively pushed them down?

 

 

If everyone else is getting better and you're staying the same, then you're getting worse. This is competitive sports.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

If everyone else is getting better and you're staying the same, then you're getting worse. This is competitive sports.

 

True - they did lose a few talented players from 2016-2017, and Hurts is just... not a particularly good QB.

[Coach Tuesday]

55 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Do you really think Roman got canned because the passing game floundered?

 

I think he got canned because in his second season, he went overboard on his game planning, put in too much stuff that was too cute, and refused to take input from above, below, or sideways (OQC, scouts).  That is why, with the same playbook, the offense improved magically when he got canned and a guy willing to take those inputs took over.

 

So here is my theory about that, but it's just that - a guess: I was at the Thursday night Jets home loss after which  Roman was fired.  From the stands, you could see the dysfunction.  Playcalls were coming in extremely late, players weren't lining up in the right spot, and Tyrod seemed frustrated and flustered.  There were a handful of big pass plays that looked like they resulted from some kind of "playground ball" discussion in the huddle (or during a Tyrod scramble), i.e., they were made up on the fly.  I think Terry and Kim were embarrassed that the product looked that poor that on the national stage.  I think that led to a "come to Jesus" discussion with Rex, which led to Roman's ouster.  (Rex should've been on notice that he'd be next if the ship wasn't righted, but he didn't get the message or didn't care or know how to adapt.

 

I'm not saying the playbook wasn't a factor, it may have been.  But it seemed to me that the preparation and organization were lacking and that was the bigger issue.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

So here is my theory about that, but it's just that - a guess: I was at the Thursday night Jets home loss after which  Roman was fired.  From the stands, you could see the dysfunction.  Playcalls were coming in extremely late, players weren't lining up in the right spot, and Tyrod seemed frustrated and flustered.  There were a handful of big pass plays that looked like they resulted from some kind of "playground ball" discussion in the huddle (or during a Tyrod scramble), i.e., they were made up on the fly.  I think Terry and Kim were embarrassed that the product looked that poor that on the national stage.  I think that led to a "come to Jesus" discussion with Rex, which led to Roman's ouster.  (Rex should've been on notice that he'd be next if the ship wasn't righted, but he didn't get the message or didn't care or know how to adapt.

 

I'm not saying the playbook wasn't a factor, it may have been.  But it seemed to me that the preparation and organization were lacking and that was the bigger issue.

 

It wasn't much better on the other side of the ball

[PolishDave]

8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

So here is my theory about that, but it's just that - a guess: I was at the Thursday night Jets home loss after which  Roman was fired.  From the stands, you could see the dysfunction.  Playcalls were coming in extremely late, players weren't lining up in the right spot, and Tyrod seemed frustrated and flustered.  There were a handful of big pass plays that looked like they resulted from some kind of "playground ball" discussion in the huddle (or during a Tyrod scramble), i.e., they were made up on the fly.  I think Terry and Kim were embarrassed that the product looked that poor that on the national stage.  I think that led to a "come to Jesus" discussion with Rex, which led to Roman's ouster.  (Rex should've been on notice that he'd be next if the ship wasn't righted, but he didn't get the message or didn't care or know how to adapt.

 

I'm not saying the playbook wasn't a factor, it may have been.  But it seemed to me that the preparation and organization were lacking and that was the bigger issue.

 

As I recall it went something like this:

 

Bills offense sucking.

Rex started fielding questions about playcalls getting into the huddle late

Rex publicly acknowledged it was a problem

Roman failed at getting plays called into the huddle timely in the very next game even after it was called out publicly

Rex - publicly humiliated that the problem still existed the very next game - fired Roman

 

I am sure it also entered Rex's mind that, by firing Roman, he was firing the one guy on the staff who could serve as a realistic interim head coach if the season kept going downhill and Rex ended up getting fired.

 

So by firing Roman, Rex made it much less likely for Pegula to fire Rex mid-season.      

 

And then Roman could be used as a scapegoat for why the offense was a failure that year.

 

And if the defense hadn't been absolutely horrible, that plan probably would have worked out for Rex.

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

As I recall it went something like this:

 

Bills offense sucking.

Rex started fielding questions about playcalls getting into the huddle late

Rex publicly acknowledged it was a problem

Roman failed at getting plays called into the huddle timely in the very next game even after it was called out publicly

Rex - publicly humiliated that the problem still existed the very next game - fired Roman

 

I am sure it also entered Rex's mind that, by firing Roman, he was firing the one guy on the staff who could serve as a realistic interim head coach if the season kept going downhill and Rex ended up getting fired.

 

So by firing Roman, Rex made it much less likely for Pegula to fire Rex mid-season.      

 

And then Roman could be used as a scapegoat for why the offense was a failure that year.

 

And if the defense hadn't been absolutely horrible, that plan probably would have worked out for Rex.

 

Yes, this too.  But I distinctly recall Tyrod running around for his life in that game and heaving it downfield on a prayer several times.  That was literally the entire offense.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Yes, this too.  But I distinctly recall Tyrod running around for his life in that game and heaving it downfield on a prayer several times.  That was literally the entire offense.

 

Bomb to goodwin kept us in the game and we couldnt stop fitz

[DrDawkinstein]

56 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

If everyone else is getting better and you're staying the same, then you're getting worse. This is competitive sports.

 

But you're giving me stat RANKINGS, and for a team that won the National Championship. Give us the real numbers and what they mean to you.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong. I cant say either way actually, because we have no real data to go by. Stats barely say anything to begin with, Stat rankings dont say anything at all. Too many variables, and lack of context.

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

They actually scored 6 more red zone TDs this year, but had a few more red zone trips and fewer FGs. One site i looked at showed 3% difference and another poster shared something that looked like 4%... either way it’s irrelevant imo.

 

Word. If that's the case then I'm not that worried about the ranking change.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

So here is my theory about that, but it's just that - a guess: I was at the Thursday night Jets home loss after which  Roman was fired.  From the stands, you could see the dysfunction.  Playcalls were coming in extremely late, players weren't lining up in the right spot, and Tyrod seemed frustrated and flustered.  There were a handful of big pass plays that looked like they resulted from some kind of "playground ball" discussion in the huddle (or during a Tyrod scramble), i.e., they were made up on the fly.  I think Terry and Kim were embarrassed that the product looked that poor that on the national stage.  I think that led to a "come to Jesus" discussion with Rex, which led to Roman's ouster.  (Rex should've been on notice that he'd be next if the ship wasn't righted, but he didn't get the message or didn't care or know how to adapt.

 

I'm not saying the playbook wasn't a factor, it may have been.  But it seemed to me that the preparation and organization were lacking and that was the bigger issue.

 

Fair enough. 

 

It's not necessarily either/or as well - perhaps the performance on the national stage was a "tipping point" that catalyzed something already "on notice" from the playbook issues.  "Making the boss look a fool on a big stage" is a major "awshit" in football as well as other endeavors (one of my theories about why Dennison got the ax).

 

Where Rex was concerned though, that is certainly pot calling kettle to fire Roman for late calls and disorganization.

[BillsFan4]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ha, well there you go. So, what? They scored 2 less times basically?

 

13 hours ago, Lurker said:

Alabama's red zone scoring percentage:

 

2016:  89.2%    (58 of 65)        TDs:  40        FGs:    18                 http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/team/8/redzone/offense/split.html

2017:  85.3%    (58 of 68)        TDs:  46        FGs:    12                 http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/team/8/redzone/offense/split.htm

 

I'll take 2017, thanks...

 

[Coach Tuesday]

37 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Bomb to goodwin kept us in the game and we couldnt stop fitz

 

Not exactly right.  That score "kept us in the game" because the offense was totally out of sync and couldn't sustain drives that would have kept the defense off the field.  There were hardly any first downs in that game by the Bills, IIRC.  Three-and-outs and long touchdown passes.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Coach Tuesday

[HoserE]

I like this hire...Solid.

 

Really good pedigree.  At Alabama he ran Saban's offense that was notoriously conservative.

 

At the end of the day we need to upgrade the OL and QB...Add a solid WR to compliment KB.  That will make all the difference on where this O goes.

 

He will surely be a much better play caller than the disaster that was Dennison, and that is where we will see the most improvement form the OC.  Run first or not, as long as there is some creativity and focus to the play calling I will be happy.