dave mcbride Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 1 hour ago, NewEraBills said: The biggest difference is those guys also could get to the passer. Shaq had 4 sacks this year but one was because he didn't get picked up. The other was because the QB was trying to escape and lawson tripped him up. I like Shaq, but he hasn't shown much burst and explosiveness as a pass rusher. I think Coach McD prefers guys that are more of a complete package than one dimensional because Ideally, you need the pocket collapsing on both sides and at least one player collapsing the middle. Compare Hughes, Davis, and Yarborough's first step to Shaq's as a pass rusher and you'll see a huge distinction between the players in that department. Absolutely - his sacks are mostly of the vulture variety.
billsfan2298 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 Those are the people who said that Maclin was coming to Buffalo on a one year 7 millions dollar deal. I don't believe a word they say
Jay_Fixit Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 When he was drafted I was almost as deflated as when they took Manuel. Shaq is whack yo.
MrEpsYtown Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 3 hours ago, NewEraBills said: The biggest difference is those guys also could get to the passer. Shaq had 4 sacks this year but one was because he didn't get picked up. The other was because the QB was trying to escape and lawson tripped him up. I like Shaq, but he hasn't shown much burst and explosiveness as a pass rusher. I think Coach McD prefers guys that are more of a complete package than one dimensional because Ideally, you need the pocket collapsing on both sides and at least one player collapsing the middle. Compare Hughes, Davis, and Yarborough's first step to Shaq's as a pass rusher and you'll see a huge distinction between the players in that department. Good points. I do think it is too early to cut loose on Lawson. I'm not sure if we have seen his full potential yet. I don't think he will ever be a 15 sack guy, but I think he could be a Charles Johnson type giving you 8-12 sacks a year and he seems to be very good at stopping the run. I think we will see our sack numbers skyrocket if we improve the linebacking corps. It is hard to get sacks when the linebackers are too slow to cover the check down.
Fan in Chicago Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Good points. I do think it is too early to cut loose on Lawson. I'm not sure if we have seen his full potential yet. I don't think he will ever be a 15 sack guy, but I think he could be a Charles Johnson type giving you 8-12 sacks a year and he seems to be very good at stopping the run. I think we will see our sack numbers skyrocket if we improve the linebacking corps. It is hard to get sacks when the linebackers are too slow to cover the check down. I disagree. Lawson had all of this season to show what he could do and it turned out to be not much. A DE has to be able to put pressure on passing downs, as an example. Far too often he was invisible and over two seasons, has not been the most 'available' either. I am on board with trying to trade him, but am afraid we will not get much back for him. It will be interesting if he can be part of trade package to move up for a QB in the draft.
OldTimer1960 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 For sure, they need more pass rush, but I don't think that means you give away a good run defender who at least rushes with effort for a mid-round draft pick. If they get a 4th for him, they would be doing well just to get an equivalent player with that 4th round pick. If they can get a 3rd, then I might consider it, but I just don't see the reason to jettison Lawson. He was drafted as a good run-stuffing base end and I think that is what he is. Nobody thought that he was going to be a dynamic pass rusher. I get the idea of finding "your own players", but I don't think it is likely that they'll ever get a guy that will be the equivalent of Ragland with the pick they got for him. I'm not saying that Ragland is great, but he did start for KC and they will be very lucky to find a guy who can be even a decent starter with the 4th or 5th round pick that they got for him.
NewEraBills Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: Good points. I do think it is too early to cut loose on Lawson. I'm not sure if we have seen his full potential yet. I don't think he will ever be a 15 sack guy, but I think he could be a Charles Johnson type giving you 8-12 sacks a year and he seems to be very good at stopping the run. I think we will see our sack numbers skyrocket if we improve the linebacking corps. It is hard to get sacks when the linebackers are too slow to cover the check down. Ohhh yeah, I agree and I think guys are underselling edge setting. At the same time though you want a first-round pick to have that burst and not just be an edge setter. It reminds me of when the Ravens drafted Courtney Upshaw. He was fantastic in setting the edge in their defense but its' also why they let him test FA eventually because they were looking for a complete package at the position. 2
Manther Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 On 1/13/2018 at 3:01 PM, Kirby Jackson said: I wouldn’t sell low on him. I don’t know that he will ever be a top end guy but I think that he can be an 8 sack guy that’s good against the run. There’s no reason to open another hole. Totally agree 4 hours ago, jmc12290 said: Another Whaley gem. Drain that swamp. That was a Rex pick if I have ever seen one
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 It's like our offense pretty much, were a running team in a passing league. Lawson is good at setting the edge for the run game in a passing league, we need a pass rush and Shaq Lawson isn't that guy, will never be that guy.
OldTimer1960 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 25 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: It's like our offense pretty much, were a running team in a passing league. Lawson is good at setting the edge for the run game in a passing league, we need a pass rush and Shaq Lawson isn't that guy, will never be that guy. I think that is too simplistic of a view. Hughes is supposed to be the pass rusher and he had the same number of sacks (in more games) as Lawson did. If you want to point the finger at someone for not doing enough, I’d say Hughes was the one who underachieved. Lawson will never be a dynamic pass rusher, but he can be a solid DE and I don’t think you can get anywhere near even value out of a 4th round pick.
billrooter Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) On 1/13/2018 at 3:09 PM, LABILLBACKER said: there is no planet where Lawson is ever going to be a 7-8 sack /yr guy. He doesn't have the pass rushing talents or moves. You can obviously see this watching tape. Even his college tape. Not saying I have an opinion either way if he stays or goes, but really? He had four sacks this year after missing 5 games and 2 sacks in his last three games. He is still a young guy and can learn an array of pass rush moves to improve his game but on no planet can he average a measly 7-8 a year? I now hope they keep him after researching his numbers, I think he is an effort guy that only improves going forward. Edited January 15, 2018 by billrooter
bobobonators Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 Geez what a complete waste of a draft we had.
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said: I think that is too simplistic of a view. Hughes is supposed to be the pass rusher and he had the same number of sacks (in more games) as Lawson did. If you want to point the finger at someone for not doing enough, I’d say Hughes was the one who underachieved. Lawson will never be a dynamic pass rusher, but he can be a solid DE and I don’t think you can get anywhere near even value out of a 4th round pick. The entire DL underachieved, it's said that Lorenzo Alexander will move to DE next season, not sure if thats any sort of upgrade but it tells me thank goodness we'll be getting a new OLB. Only in Buffalo do we think the defense will fall apart from a guy who had 33 tackles (who's supposed to be excellent against the run) , 1 FF and 4 sacks, that is far from irreplaceable so if we can recoup a 3rd or 4th round pick for him I'd say that was a bargain imo.
OldTimer1960 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 1 minute ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: The entire DL underachieved, it's said that Lorenzo Alexander will move to DE next season, not sure if thats any sort of upgrade but it tells me thank goodness we'll be getting a new OLB. Only in Buffalo do we think the defense will fall apart from a guy who had 33 tackles (who's supposed to be excellent against the run) , 1 FF and 4 sacks, that is far from irreplaceable so if we can recoup a 3rd or 4th round pick for him I'd say that was a bargain imo. Nobody said the defense the defense woul “fall apart”. What some are saying is that it is unlikely to get a comparable player to Lawson with a 4th round pick.
BigDingus Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 I feel like we shouldn't get rid of him until we have our full defense settled. We could've used some of these players on the 53 man roster last year that apparently weren't good enough for our team (Ragland for example).
MAJBobby Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 Buddy confirms. But says price starts with a 2nd rounder (right now)
BillsFan130 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 16 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Buddy confirms. But says price starts with a 2nd rounder (right now) I couldn’t see the Bills getting a 2nd rounder for him. I guess it doesn’t hurt to ask
NewEraBills Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: I couldn’t see the Bills getting a 2nd rounder for him. I guess it doesn’t hurt to ask I mean there's some untapped potential in the guy but I don't see us getting a 2nd. If we could that would be fantastic.
BillsFan130 Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, NewEraBills said: I mean there's some untapped potential in the guy but I don't see us getting a 2nd. If we could that would be fantastic. Agreed. A mid to late third seems more realistic
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