FearLess Price Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said: It occurred to me earlier today... maybe it wasn't a case of McD and RD refusing to fit a traditional offense to Tyrod, but of all three agreeing to try and expand Tyrod's skills as a QB. The Bills get to install their desired offense and Tyrod gets a shot at "on the job" training. Look at it this way, running a very specific "read option" offense limits Taylor's options. So if this worked even a little bit, it would have made Tyrod a more accomplished player and more attractive FA. Or even a permanent answer here in Buffalo. At least now, he has exposure to a different system and can continue to work on it. Somewhere else. Normally your on an agenda when its at QB but thats a dope comment 1 hour ago, Boyst62 said: Spread offenses, if they're run like college spread the ball around and open the field tremendously. They can take the very best corners out of the game entirely and capitalize on the weakest links by default if run correctly I love to hate the spread offense similar to the Carolina Panthers so I pay too much attention to it. Using elements of those offenses really helped Watson adapt to the NFL down in Houston and he was putting up 5 TD games. With a good draft and some FA help at OL that team is gonna be fun to watch. If he stays healthy and the texans made a deep playoff run with Watson, its gonna turn more nfl heads to fitting offenses to rookie qbs strengths instead of always holding the clipboard and riding pine for a year or two.
cba fan Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 A college type spread may be the way of the future in NFL, however, It would be very smart of anyone trying to implement it to go back and take a look at Chip Kelly offense in Philly that crashed and burned and not try to run that. Some hybrid spread for NFL would be in order with the right QB and a good b/u QB with similar skills as injury risk goes up.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Explains the housecleaning. This looks like it might be a trend ... Chicago just hired Mark Helfrich. Perhaps Carroll hires Matt Canada? Interesting. We'll see. But they'll need to really beef up their D
boyst Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 52 minutes ago, FearLess Price said: Normally your on an agenda when its at QB but thats a dope comment Using elements of those offenses really helped Watson adapt to the NFL down in Houston and he was putting up 5 TD games. With a good draft and some FA help at OL that team is gonna be fun to watch. If he stays healthy and the texans made a deep playoff run with Watson, its gonna turn more nfl heads to fitting offenses to rookie qbs strengths instead of always holding the clipboard and riding pine for a year or two. That's the biggest problem with a spread offense. The separation between the average defensive lineman in the NFL is so much greater than that of the college level. And the spread offense needs a particular type of lineman that you generally cannot find in the NFL. Having one that can give you the time to complete those passes and play that ball game is difficult. And any weak link on a spread offense Frontline is going to destroy the system. Which is what Steve Spurrier had an issue with in the NFL. On one hand you need a quick thinking fast moving quarterback like Ryan Fitzpatrick, but on the other hand you need a quarterback who is poised in the pocket and can complete those long passes. The quarterback who would most be fitting for a spread offense might be Matt Ryan. Other than that there are several options with a younger guys and too many question marks surrounding them
LabattBlue Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 ...otherwise known as...the offense which will get Russell Wilson killed. 1
FearLess Price Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: That's the biggest problem with a spread offense. The separation between the average defensive lineman in the NFL is so much greater than that of the college level. And the spread offense needs a particular type of lineman that you generally cannot find in the NFL. Having one that can give you the time to complete those passes and play that ball game is difficult. And any weak link on a spread offense Frontline is going to destroy the system. Which is what Steve Spurrier had an issue with in the NFL. On one hand you need a quick thinking fast moving quarterback like Ryan Fitzpatrick, but on the other hand you need a quarterback who is poised in the pocket and can complete those long passes. The quarterback who would most be fitting for a spread offense might be Matt Ryan. Other than that there are several options with a younger guys and too many question marks surrounding them This is exactly why I wanted Dennison gone. If you dont have the talent to run a certain scheme its not going to work. So you have to wrap your plan around your talent, Houston did that and yielded results, i can see more coaches add similar wrinkles to ease in rookie QBs that come from those systems, while not fully running a college offense. Edited January 13, 2018 by FearLess Price
CEN-CAL17 Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Arizona should bring in Tyrod and do the same thing. With that defense and David Johnson, they’d be really exciting to watch. And good for Carroll thinking outside the box - kinda the opposite of McD hiring Dennison to fit a traditional timing offense to Tyrod... Fitzgerald would go from 100 receptions to 50 guaranteed!
The Now Moment Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Mango said: The issue isn’t getting more production from the QB, the issue is 1. Beating an NFL defense. 2. Keeping your QB healthy. An NFL defense is much bigger, faster, and stronger than anything in the NFL. I'm aware, however, if you expect a mobile QB to be forced into an NFL system that limits their running, they won't be as effective plain and simple.
H2o Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 You don't want your ever increasingly expensive QB taking hits in a Spread Option offense like they do in college. It has been shown to be effective for a year or three at a time, see Harbaugh\Kaep and the Niners, but it's not sustainable.
Ittakestime Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 58 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: I'm aware, however, if you expect a mobile QB to be forced into an NFL system that limits their running, they won't be as effective plain and simple. I personally believe Wilson has been effective in his time not playing a QB running style. Don't see why u need to change it and expose him to injuries. It's not like he has been bad in other offenses.
twoandfourteen Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, FearLess Price said: Normally your on an agenda when its at QB but thats a dope comment No agenda -- in fact, I was big on Tyrod in the beginning. I was at the Colts game when he hit Harvin and I remember saying "We got ourselves a QB, boys"... The guy looked the part, had the presence and charisma to be the face of the franchise, and was a great story too -- being a 6th round pick and all of that. But over time, it unfortunately just didn't work out. He never really progressed and then this season, things went south. Which is why I started to wonder why -- he's a really smart guy, I can't imagine he would put himself in a position to fail. I may seem to be very anti-Taylor, but it's more of a problem with the narratives going around about him from people who don't watch Bills games like we do. I have all the respect in the world for the guy as a person and a professional. You really can't do much better than TT in that regard. Most of all though, I've had enough of watching nearly two decades of football that looks nothing like the fun, exciting games we see from other teams -- like the Saints, Patriots, Steelers, etc. I mean, those teams have QBs that have all thrown for 500 yards in a game.... could you imagine what a 47-45 Bills game would be like where we see our QB go for 502 yards and 5 TDs? That's what I want to see. This is what we've had though: 2015-2017 NFL Passing Games over 300 yards passing - 301 - 161-138-2 (.538) Bills - 2 (0-2-0) 32nd in NFLhttp://pfref.com/tiny/a9ysV Games with less than 280 yards passing - 1106 - 533-571-2 (.483) Bills - 45 (24-21-0, .533) - 1st in NFLhttp://pfref.com/tiny/3tBoH Games with less than 230 yards passing - 732 - 328-403-1 (.449) Bills - 35 (21-14-0, .600) - 1st in NFLhttp://pfref.com/tiny/MJ346 Games with less than 200 yards passing - 500 - 216-284-0 (.432) Bills - 27 (18-9-0, .667) - 1st in NFLhttp://pfref.com/tiny/WdGiP Games with less than 180 yards passing - 352 - 150-202-0 (.426) Bills - 21 (14-7-0, .667) - 1st in NFL (31 teams)http://pfref.com/tiny/Nkp1X Games with less than 130 yards passing - 111 - 46-65-0 (.414) Bills - 8 (4-4-0, .500) - 2nd in NFL (28 teams)http://pfref.com/tiny/w9aOz Games with less than 100 yards passing - 47 - 17-30-0 (.362) Bills - 5 (3-2-0, .600) - 1st in NFL (20 teams)http://pfref.com/tiny/TUChT The Bills have led the league in most games with the least amount of passing offense. It's like they aren't even playing the same sport as the really good teams. Now, I already know what's coming. "But they have a winning record in those games!" True, but those are all crappy, boring wins against mostly garbage teams. Against big-time teams like New England or New Orleans, we get blown out of the stadium. I'd like to see the Bills be an entertaining, marquee matchup for a change. Instead, we get 3 points on the big stage against the Jaguars with everyone watching. Edited January 14, 2018 by twoandfourteen
Rochesterfan Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Explains the housecleaning. This looks like it might be a trend ... Chicago just hired Mark Helfrich. Perhaps Carroll hires Matt Canada? Not if they hire Brian Schoenheimer as coach. Strange things in the Pacific Northwest. Edited January 14, 2018 by Rochesterfan
Mango Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 9 hours ago, Buffalo30 said: I'm aware, however, if you expect a mobile QB to be forced into an NFL system that limits their running, they won't be as effective plain and simple. I don’t disagree. It does seem like people look past the deficiencies in the passing game because of running ability. Which to my point either isn’t sustainable or can’t be used regularly. For a running QB to be effective in the NFL he still has to be at least an average passer, or good passer. It’s where most of these very athletic college QB’s falter. It isn’t sustainable to have these guys running around. It will catch up. Look at Vick (excluding prison time). They can’t run forever. Tebow another extreme. Manziel. The list goes on. Athletic QB’s need to be pass first on an NFL level. Running is an added wrinkle that makes up for some deficiency, but not much. And not nearly as much as people give it credit for, as exciting as it is to watch at times
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 15 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Explains the housecleaning. This looks like it might be a trend ... Chicago just hired Mark Helfrich. Perhaps Carroll hires Matt Canada? How is it that super Chip tried to run this in Philly and failed but now these teams want to try it again? 15 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Arizona should bring in Tyrod and do the same thing. With that defense and David Johnson, they’d be really exciting to watch. And good for Carroll thinking outside the box - kinda the opposite of McD hiring Dennison to fit a traditional timing offense to Tyrod... They should totally do this!! It won't be sustainable but I would love the picks acquired in the trade.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 14 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: It kind of is. The NFL probably needs to move away from complex systems that rely on veteran QBs and depth along the offense. College has adapted to an easier system that features athletic QBs and can accommodate constant roster cycling. Problem is, is defenses will eat it up, once they go through a learning Curve they will shut down the Simplistic Spread. An Offense Needs To Be Able To Audible, Make Line Adjustments And Go Through Multiple Progressions. Now I understand a rookie can't have it to complex at first but over time needs to develop into amore complex system to stay ahead of the defense.
Mikie2times Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 I think what is mostly being discussed is the RPO's, spread, read option, single wing concepts. With NFL athletes, it still will boil down to who can throw the ball better in the conventional passing game.
row_33 Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 19 hours ago, Doc said: So "the next level" is...college level? Nothing I’d enjoy more than Seattle going 2-14 for the next five years after that totally classless display when they were a top team
nucci Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 21 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: It kind of is. The NFL probably needs to move away from complex systems that rely on veteran QBs and depth along the offense. College has adapted to an easier system that features athletic QBs and can accommodate constant roster cycling. and it's fun to watch
The Now Moment Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 16 hours ago, Ittakestime said: I personally believe Wilson has been effective in his time not playing a QB running style. Don't see why u need to change it and expose him to injuries. It's not like he has been bad in other offenses. That's only one mobile QB, I was talking about all of them. I also believe he will be more effective if he ran more. He's smart, he knows how to slide and protect himself. It's all about the creative design of the play.
The Now Moment Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 8 hours ago, Mango said: I don’t disagree. It does seem like people look past the deficiencies in the passing game because of running ability. Which to my point either isn’t sustainable or can’t be used regularly. For a running QB to be effective in the NFL he still has to be at least an average passer, or good passer. It’s where most of these very athletic college QB’s falter. It isn’t sustainable to have these guys running around. It will catch up. Look at Vick (excluding prison time). They can’t run forever. Tebow another extreme. Manziel. The list goes on. Athletic QB’s need to be pass first on an NFL level. Running is an added wrinkle that makes up for some deficiency, but not much. And not nearly as much as people give it credit for, as exciting as it is to watch at times Oh I don't disagree with that. You certainly have to throw the rock well. Also, I'm not a fan of having a running QB on our team. I was simply stating for the teams that do have those players, they should use them to their full potential and that includes running the rock. The creativity in playcalling can actually make this safer for a QB and also the knowledge to know when to get out of bounds or slide. A QB really never has to take a hit running the ball, they just choose to a lot.
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