Rocky Landing Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 1) Draft a QB with our first pick. If there is a reasonable option for trading up to get Rosen, or Darnold, then do it, but only within reason (which seems unlikely). Trading up for Allen might be more doable, but only for a fair price. In defense of my position: I'm far from a draft expert. But, there does seem to consensus that the QB class is deep, and that Rosen, and Darnold are the top of the class. It's exciting to have so many draft picks, and I'd hate to see too many of them sold off for a single pick. 2) Unless we get a decent trade offer, Keep Taylor. If our rookie QB is ready to start in September, fine- start the rook. Otherwise, start Taylor until the rook is ready. Like Keenum and Goff in LA. In defense of my position: If we draft a rookie QB, it only makes sense to have a vet presence. Despite the hatred of Taylor by about 25% of this board, and the general dissatisfaction of him by another significant percentage, the actual offense does not seem to feel this way. If there is a better option at vet, I'd love to hear it. But, Taylor knows the team, and the team respects him. He is, by all accounts, a consummate professional, leader, and effective communicator. And, he's under contract. 3) Spend resources in the draft, and free agency on improving the O-line. Make whomever is behind center safe for once. In defense of my position: Let's be real-- the right side has been a problem for as long as Taylor has been under center, and before. IMO, Taylor made our line look better than it was with his athleticism. Even his die-hard haters will admit that he can break tackles exceptionally well. That shouldn't be such a requisite for a QB. 4) Spend resources in the draft, and free agency on improving the WR corps. (I haven't generally been a fan of drafting for need vs. drafting BPA, but maybe this year we should weigh need a little heavier?) In defense of my position: I believe that we have enough draft picks to give need more weight, and our WR corps has got to be one of the worst in the league. 5) If they're going keep three QBs, keep Webb, and drop Peterman like a bad habit. In defense of my position: I paid good money for two fine seats at the Stubhub Center for that Cargers game, and I don't think I will ever forgive Late Nate Peterman.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Batman1876 said: I would like to see us target Bradford in free agency and then trade 21,22 and 56 to move up to 4 and take Mayfield. I think Cousins will get 30-35 million which is too much and I’d rather build around a rookie than a 34 year old Alex Smith. No to Bradford. Just...No. He is fool's gold as a QB - when he's healthy, he's good, but don't bet the rent on his health. I don't think he has a knee joint left to him. He would die behind our OL. If you want to get a vet as insurance to back up a veteran, you best get a tough, sturdy reliable model. "No" to vets who would lose the battle of the Bath Mat. Cousins is not going to get 30-35 million per year. What units are you talking about, and why do you think it's "too much"? 1
Figster Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 If I'm HC McD Tyrod Taylor earned himself another season at the helm when Buffalo made the playoffs in my humble opinion. Getting KO'd on the football field is not how this story needs to end. Draft a rookie...
Harryhood280 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 I have four options, in order of preference. 1. Sign Cousins. QBs of his talent level are rarely available for only money. He’s going to get a lot of it, he probably won’t be worth the contract he signs, but so it goes. He’s a huge upgrade over Tyrod. 2. Trade up to pick Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield. Getting one of the first two will probably require going to pick #1. The Giants aren’t trading out of #2. That means we will give up both of our 1sts, next years 1st, and a 2nd or 3rd rounder as well, at least. The way Mayfield has been soaring up draft boards, the price would only be slightly more palatable. I don’t see Glenn or Tyrod having the trade value to lessen the draft pick cost either. If the guy you trade up for becomes the guy, it’s worth every penny. If he doesn’t, it’s a disaster. 3. Wait until next year. Keep your picks, draft good players, trade down again with one of your firsts. Keep Tyrod for one more season, or sign Keenum to a 3 year deal. 4. Trade for Alex Smith. He is not a huge upgrade but if the price isn’t too high he is an upgrade nonetheless. See #3, he is an extended bridge, with potential to maybe be more.
Rocky Landing Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Harryhood280 said: I have four options, in order of preference. 1. Sign Cousins. QBs of his talent level are rarely available for only money. He’s going to get a lot of it, he probably won’t be worth the contract he signs, but so it goes. He’s a huge upgrade over Tyrod. 2. Trade up to pick Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield. Getting one of the first two will probably require going to pick #1. The Giants aren’t trading out of #2. That means we will give up both of our 1sts, next years 1st, and a 2nd or 3rd rounder as well, at least. The way Mayfield has been soaring up draft boards, the price would only be slightly more palatable. I don’t see Glenn or Tyrod having the trade value to lessen the draft pick cost either. If the guy you trade up for becomes the guy, it’s worth every penny. If he doesn’t, it’s a disaster. 3. Wait until next year. Keep your picks, draft good players, trade down again with one of your firsts. Keep Tyrod for one more season, or sign Keenum to a 3 year deal. 4. Trade for Alex Smith. He is not a huge upgrade but if the price isn’t too high he is an upgrade nonetheless. See #3, he is an extended bridge, with potential to maybe be more. What makes you think that Smith will be cheaper than Cousins?
4merper4mer Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Magox said: I agree, but now-a-days it seems like QB's are playing at a high level into their upper 30's. Plus he's an athletic guy as it is, I wouldn't be surprised that he has another 5 more solid years. I think he's probably viewed as a valuable player in the league. Not top shelf, but valuable. I do agree though, He'll probably fetch a 2nd rounder and another draft choice based off some sort of performance metric. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs were able to get 2 2nd rounders worth of value. The guy sucks though. Let someone else trade for him and lose. 6 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: What makes you think that Smith will be cheaper than Cousins? He sucks more than Cousins sucks, thus he will be cheaper.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: 1. Go all-in on Kirk Cousins. 2. If #1 fails, try to get either Case Keenum or Teddy Bridgewater. Then choose a quarterback with one of the first four picks in the draft (21, 22, 53, or 56). 3. If #1 and #2 fail, trade for Alex Smith then draft a quarterback with one of the first four picks in the draft (21, 22, 53, or 56) or trade up for a QB. 4. Trade draft picks 21 and 22 for a Top 10 pick and choose a QB. Let Peterman and the rookie battle it out in training camp for the starting spot. I'm with you on 1. and 2. Uncertain on Bridgewater, and would like to see us take a QB in the 1st 3 rounds even if we go all-in on Cousins. I don't think Alex Smith will be around to be sought in trade after the draft. He's got a $2M roster bonus coming to him and the Chiefs need all the cap help they can get. 21 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: The guy (Smith) sucks though. Let someone else trade for him and lose. Maybe you can define sucks? The Chiefs paid 2 - 2nd round picks for him. Before Smith, they had a losing record and missed the playoffs 4 of 5 years with QB like Thigpen and Cassel. After Smith, they've had a winning record and been in the playoffs 4 of 5 years. Is that worth 2 - 2nd round picks?
Batman1876 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: No to Bradford. Just...No. He is fool's gold as a QB - when he's healthy, he's good, but don't bet the rent on his health. I don't think he has a knee joint left to him. He would die behind our OL. If you want to get a vet as insurance to back up a veteran, you best get a tough, sturdy reliable model. "No" to vets who would lose the battle of the Bath Mat. Cousins is not going to get 30-35 million per year. What units are you talking about, and why do you think it's "too much"? Look at Cousins stats over the last 3years then look at Matt Staffords they are identical. Stafford is getting 30 million per year and Staffords contract will be what Cousins will identify as a starting point, QB value always starts with what theLast similar guy went for. Then on top of that you have the free agency mark up and you get a 30 to 35 million dollar price tag. He’ll sign for 150 mil over 5 years 50 mil signing bonus and 70 mil guaranteed at signing. As for Bradford I think the list of established vets willing to take the role of place holder for a rookie is short. Bradford would be willing to simply to prove his knee holds. If he gets hurt then the rookie goes in, if he stays healthy then he’ll probably play well enough that people aren’t calling for the rookie to start.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Batman1876 said: Look at Cousins stats over the last 3years then look at Matt Staffords they are identical. Stafford is getting 30 million per year and Staffords contract will be what Cousins will identify as a starting point, QB value always starts with what theLast similar guy went for. Then on top of that you have the free agency mark up and you get a 30 to 35 million dollar price tag. He’ll sign for 150 mil over 5 years 50 mil signing bonus and 70 mil guaranteed at signing. FWIW Stafford's average salary is $27M a year. That's not impossible, but I think teams did take a lesson from the Texans signing Brock Osweiler. Stafford is a known quantity. He's the Man, he's been the Man, they know him, they want to keep him. There's always a bit of an "unknown" factor with a FA and Also IMHO once there's a "record breaking" contract, other teams seem to back away a bit. So you might be right, and I see where you're coming from, but you might be wrong, too. I was thinking more like Derek Carr, who is getting an average of $25M/yr, 5 yr $125M with $12.5M signing bonus and $70M guaranteed. It's steep, but it doesn't lock the team in for quite so long. If Cousins does want $35M/yr I think he's going to find his market rather slim, because most teams just don't have that cap space, not if they want to keep a winning team around him, and I don't see how we could either.
Mat68 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 1. FA is first so you start with Cousins. Do you think he can win a superbowl in a weakening conference. If yes pay the man. If no move on to Minnesota and pick up the guy who leaves Keenum or Bridgewater. Mccarron is availbe but Cincy was willing to trade him in division in state so im more buyer beware. After that you are in straight bridge category. Bradford, Mccown, Fitz. Besides Bradford I would just retain Taylor at this point. 2. The draft. Getting Cousins is the only way you dont have to pick a QB rd1. I think it would still be on the table if you do. I would say any Qb signed that is below Keenum I think a trade is a must. No Franchise caliber Qb will be there at 21. So find out what the asking prices are. I would give up a hefty take for Rosen or Darnold. 21, 22, 55, 2019 1st rd around that maybe a little more. If they are not availbe i move to Indy. I make a play for Luck 21 and next years 3rd. 2nd if he plays over 10 games. 1st if he starts a playoff game. If no than move up for Allen less than I offered for 1 or 2 but substantial. If im unable to get Allen i stay put and go with Jackson or Rudolph. I like the top 3 qbs much more than the others. I think there is a fairly wide margin from them to Mayfield. While investigating a trade up I would also gauge the availability of Luck. If I think he is remotely available I make that move quick and first. Assess the risk and take a gamble. Gotta believe with modern medecine the odds of luck recovering are still greater than a qb drafted become great. Edited January 11, 2018 by Mat68
xRUSHx Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) IMO First off trade Tyrod if at all possible before his bonus, if no takers dump him. Next pick up a cheap vet, I don't care who they will only be here to mentor and maybe start a few games at most if they outplay Peterman. Draft. Try to trade up to get the QB of choice. Mine is Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Rudolph. Depending on who will determine how much they need to move up, if any. Any of those 4 should be ready to start a few games into the season IMO so the question would be IMO who starts the season Peterman or the Vet. By game 3 or 4 the new rookie should be ready to start. IMO this would be a great setup because we would have 2 QBs on rookie contracts and a vet on a cheap contract. Sure it will be a learning season for our QBs but after Tyrods 54 yard games it would have to be pretty bad for any QB not to be able to do better. Just because Peterman had a tough game in LA does not show he is a horrible QB it shows he needs more work and hopefully will be ready for this next season. I would rather them take a step back this coming season finding a QB over the overpaying on a vet that is either old or crappy like Tyrod. Tyrod is not a mentor and is not worth half of the money owed to him this coming season. I doubt any team will be interested in a trade for him. If Smith isn't a expensive trade I would stand behind it otherwise why waste the money and a draft pick for him if all he is going to do is play a few games then get replaced. Watson did not start game one but came in during the season and lit up the league, I will be hopeful our new QB also has some very good success. Use that Tyrod,MD money and fill this team up with good players from FA. Go Bills Edit. I did not include Cousins because IMO he will be looking for a huge amount of money and IMO is a very good QB that I would love here but IMO he is not worth the zillions he will want. Either he gets overpaid in Washington or some other team pays the ransom hopefully it is not the Bills. Edited January 11, 2018 by xRUSHx
row_33 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 5 hours ago, JMF2006 said: The Vikes will not let him walk,I wouldn`t be surprised if they bring back Bradford and let Teddy B walk. Eslecially if the Vikings play in the Suoer Bowl in their own stadium shortly.
NewEra Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 There are many different ways to address the postion that can achieve success. The best one clearly involves not drafting Mason Rudolph. All kidding aside. I really do like both Rosen and Darnold and believe trading up to securing the 2nd one drafted (1st pick is too expensive). If Gettleman is going to build and make a run with Eli as many are speculating, they should be looking to trade down and get him an offensive line. Colts are also an option to trade with at #3. I don’t think we get Darnold at 3. You can bet your bottom dollar Elway is trying to make a move to get one of those 2 QBs or maybe even mayfield. We have stiff competition for these QBs and I doubt trading up is gonna be cheap. But I’d do it. I believe McDermott can build a solid D with our current secondary with the addition of draft picks and free agents. We need a qb for crying out loud. I’m tired of waiting. Let’s get one. We have the draft picks to make it happen. I’d be ok if we trade up for mayfield as well, but Im not as excited about him. If we landed Jackson or Allen at 21 22 I’d be ok with it. I’d be listed if we traded up for them. If we draft Mason Rudolph before round 3 I’ll be pissed. Haven’t scouted the other QBs yet. if we go the FA route and grab Cousins I wouldn’t be upset. I don’t think he’ll be leading us to a super bowl, but you never know. If we use the draft picks correctly and whatever little free agent money we have left, we could make a run. Alex Smith is the likely target. Makes sense. It’s meh. I’ll be excited to see what he can do. I hope we don’t lay case keenum 20 mill a year
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Alternative is all in for Rosen, and start him day 1. This is where I’m at. But this requires aggressive FA activity. Edited January 11, 2018 by joesixpack
4merper4mer Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Maybe you can define sucks? The Chiefs paid 2 - 2nd round picks for him. Before Smith, they had a losing record and missed the playoffs 4 of 5 years with QB like Thigpen and Cassel. After Smith, they've had a winning record and been in the playoffs 4 of 5 years. Is that worth 2 - 2nd round picks? "Sucks" is hard to put into words but if you rewatch Bills or Titans vs. Chiefs, it is easy to understand. I'm wondering if the Chiefs made any changes in the last few years other than Smith.
racketmaster Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) Beane and McDermott should have their heads examined if they are giving up multiple picks to acquire a bridge qb like Smith. Especially if they are picks in the first 4 rounds. Alex Smith is a bridge qb, nothing more. San Francisco thought that and Kansas City thought it as well. That’s why both teams moved on from him, so they could try and get to the next level. Am I missing something here. Don’t the Bills already have something similar to that in Taylor. I get it, Smith is a better short game passer but Taylor has a better long ball. Both don’t turn ball over and both tend to play very conservative. Why give up picks when this team has so many holes. It’s crazy to me when the team would still be in the same position (looking for a franchise qb but with less picks). At this point, I like the idea of keeping Taylor for another year as the bridge. Keep Peterman as well and let them compete for their positions. Then identify best qb not named Darnold or Rosen (Cleveland and NYG are not trading out). It would cost too much capital to move up into top 2. Personally, I like Rudolph right now. It would be great to draft him at 21 or 22 but they may need to move up over the Jets and Ravens. So keep Taylor and Peterman and draft Rudolph. If Rudolph is ready in training camp the Bills trade Taylor to a qb needy team (injuries often happen like Tannehill). If he is not ready, start the winner of Taylor/Peterman until Rudolph is ready. Edited January 11, 2018 by racketmaster
jdonley1180 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) Snag Keenum in FA. Keenum wasn't even drafted. He came into the league as an UDFA, and bounced around practice squads for a few years, but never gave up. He worked his ass off to get where he is. This paired with his success in Minnesota will surely endear him to McDermott and Beane. Keenum has also played in Dennison's system when they were both with the Texans, so he's already familiar with the offense. Then I'd say draft Mayfield to hold the clipboard for a couple seasons. I'll admit I'm a fan of his but thats not the only reason im a proponent of drafting him. I really don't like the idea of trading away any of our extra picks in rounds 1-3 to move up the board and get a QB. We have a lot of positions that need to be upgraded on both sides of the ball and wagering precious draft picks on the success of a Rookie QB has always seemed crazy to me. I think Mayfield will be available in the late 1st round and maybe early in the 2nd. Mayfield character issues don't necessarily scream that he's a McDermott / Beane type of guy, but he is the first walk-on true freshman quarterback to start a season opener at a BCS school. At the least this shows resilience and work ethic, similar traits that have Keenum in the position he's in now. Theyre both Texas boys and Mayfield grew up watching Keenum play for the University of Houston, which happens to be his parents Alma Mater. Maybe McDermott and Beane think that Keenum is the perfect player as well as the right person to mentor Mayfield in his first few years in the NFL Edited January 11, 2018 by jdonley1180
VirginiaMike Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Batman1876 said: Every year (at least at the old board) the forum is flooded with QB threads regarding the draft and free agency. This year in particular there is a ton of options, lots of free agents and draft realevant QBs, and the Bills have clearly indicated a desire to make a change. So what do you think the team should do at the QB position? what would it take to get that done? and what risks do you see involved with it your preference? Here is what I would like to see happen o resolve the Bill's QB situation: 1. If the Bills's can pry Alex Smith away from KC (I expect them to go with Mahomes), they should. He is 33 years old and has likely up to 5 years of playing time left. He has 1 more year on his current contract so KC may just cut him, but we could get him in a trade for no more than a 2nd round pick, maybe a 3rd rounder. The reason I like him is that he is a good game manager and does take care of the ball. He can also read the field, which Tyrod can't do. The risk is that if we can't resign him, it's only a 1 year rental. 2. Have Peterman study under Smith. I think Peterman can play, but he needs time to learn and someone to learn it from. Edited January 11, 2018 by VirginiaMike
oldmanfan Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 Go after Cousins. My rationale? He is certainly the best FA QB out there. And I have mentioned before but in a recent SI article about him he is all about process, so he would really fit well with our HC. I know people clamor about how we haven't drafted our guy since Kelly, but the draft is an unknown with many first round QBs not cutting it. I would draft a guy that has worked in a pro style offense in college, that has played for 4 years, and that checks the boxes with respect to mental ability to process things quickly. I am not as big on measurable such as a huge arm, height, etc. To me the NFL game is more a mental than physical game when it comes to the QB position. Of course you have to have the minimal skill set, be able to throw an out, etc. But I'd be looking for a smart kid. So if a guy like a say Rudolph fits that profile, use one of your first round picks on him. Or maybe a second round pick on the kid from Western KY. Regardless, I want the majority of my picks in rounds 1-3 used to work on my O line and/or my front 7 on D> As long as football has been played you win up front, you win games. So I think we need to place emphasis there. So next year you have a guy in Cousins that hopefully is your guy for 10 years, then you have two young guys in Peterman and whomever they draft. Either of the young guys show they're ready you have trade potential.
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