Starr Almighty Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 It clearly states separation when the ball is released TT doesn't throw it until he sees you open, due to no anticipation that gives the defense time to close the gaps. I know the WRs aren't burners but Pitt is towards the bottom and that's because Big Ben throws into tight windows.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said: It clearly states separation when the ball is released TT doesn't throw it until he sees you open, due to no anticipation that gives the defense time to close the gaps. I know the WRs aren't burners but Pitt is towards the bottom and that's because Big Ben throws into tight windows. Ben also holds the ball forever.
boyst Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: May be some correlation between big plays though. I didn’t really dig in but feel intuitively like KC and Seattle hit a lot of big plays. look at 2016 Kelvin Benjamin 1.8 yards of separtions vs 2 this year. of course, we know he is a big WR who isn't fast and can catch the ball in traffic and runs over the middle. he was tied for last in the league last year with the almighty newton as qb. goodwin had 2.8 in 2016, 2.2 this year, despite 962 yards vs 413 last year. watkins 2.5 in 2016. 2017 2.5 every... WR... was... better... with... tyrod... taylor... 1
26CornerBlitz Posted January 11, 2018 Author Posted January 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said: It clearly states separation when the ball is released TT doesn't throw it until he sees you open, due to no anticipation that gives the defense time to close the gaps. I know the WRs aren't burners but Pitt is towards the bottom and that's because Big Ben throws into tight windows.
Starr Almighty Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: Ben also holds the ball forever. That he does but I think it's with him wanting to throw that deep ball more often than not.
boyst Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, PolishDave said: Clearly this chart suggests the opposite of what you stated. It suggests Tyrod did in fact throw the ball to better covered receivers. In other words "harder passes to complete" this is clearly the case; i'm a bit surprised. he threw the ball quite well to covered WR's.
Starr Almighty Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Am I reading this wrong or did it prove what I said to be fact?
Kirby Jackson Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said: That he does but I think it's with him wanting to throw that deep ball more often than not. Totally agree, I was just saying that may have something to do with it. It’s interesting though that the guys that hold it longest have least separation. I would have thought that as plays went on guys broke free?
boyst Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Starr Almighty said: Am I reading this wrong or did it prove what I said to be fact? it is not conclusive, necessarily. this is where the eye test vs. stats will always battle. taylor does throw in to tight windows. short passes with usually an under defender closest. one thing that we must keep in mind is that we do not remember the incomplete passes as much as those which were complete.
Tuco Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 So is the stat cause or effect? Is it the cause of why TT never throws the ball (oh, excuse me, takes longer to throw the ball than any other QB)? Or is it the effect that you get when the QB predetermines his receiver then stares at him until he either comes open or doesn't? Lots of quarterbacks create separation for their receivers by looking off safeties and pump faking. TT . . . not so much. Is there a stat for that? So again? Is the stat a cause or an effect? 1
billieve420 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, PolishDave said: After seeing the entire list, I am wondering how meaningful the stat really is. I don't see much correlation between separation and excellent passing games. Seems to be a bit all over the place. KC where they incorporated a lot of college spread principles is what I wished the Bills had run with Tyrod here. McCoy would have been our Kareem Hunt. We have a bunch of possession receivers with a QB who struggles to throw guys open. Smaller faster receivers who are able to get open in space is what fits Tyrod’s skill set. He looked much better throwing to Watkins, Woods, and company when they were actually on the field than our current WR group. Anytime we started to gain some chemistry another guy would go down.
Royale with Cheese Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 I’m not sure how much these stats matter since the Eagles, Pats and Lions are in the bottom 5. The Pats and Lions finished in the top 3 passing and Wentz was until he tore his ACL. These are largely effected by the offense you run. 2
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 I don't think it is all the QB. If you have a group of receivers like Gronk, benjamin and Evans they don't need as much separation. If you have Desean, Tyreke etc. they will gain more separation.
papazoid Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 first thought is that KC's Alex Smith may not enjoy the same success if he has buffalo's WR's to throw to 1
PolishDave Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, billieve420 said: KC where they incorporated a lot of college spread principles is what I wished the Bills had run with Tyrod here. McCoy would have been our Kareem Hunt. We have a bunch of possession receivers with a QB who struggles to throw guys open. Smaller faster receivers who are able to get open in space is what fits Tyrod’s skill set. He looked much better throwing to Watkins, Woods, and company when they were actually on the field than our current WR group. Anytime we started to gain some chemistry another guy would go down. Yeah. It is entirely possible that running a spread offense as your base offense would have allowed Tyrod to produce much better. It would have been a lot, lot more exciting. That's for sure. The guy doesn't throw many picks. In the past couple of years prior to this one I noticed that most of his big passing plays came out of shotgun or on roll outs where he was either flushed out of the pocket or on designed roll outs. I think the guy is one of the best improvisers in the NFL (I know people will disagree with that.) I don't think it is highly disputable. His athleticism is off the charts. Needed to exploit that by letting him extend pass plays way longer than a normal QB could and by having receivers run separating routes instead of bunching routes. That creates more openness as time ticks on. In those situations Tyrod made plays that would destroy defenses. And I think he could have done that to a lot of teams on 1/2 of their possessions if there was enough emphasis on it. Oh well. Onward and upward. 1
Chicken Boo Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 So were just going to pretend Tyrod releases the ball at the end of his drop, when he's supposed to? C'mon son... 1
Teddy KGB Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, 34-78-83 said: but I thought we could blame all failures 100% on one player? Sure is less messy that way... 1
Kirby Jackson Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: So were just going to pretend Tyrod releases the ball at the end of his drop, when he's supposed to? C'mon son... I don’t think anyone is saying that. I think what it shows, and any reasonable person can see, the Bills problems aren’t either/or, they are both. You can add coaching and design as well. The offense didn’t struggle for “A” reason, it struggled for a variety of reasons. Edited January 11, 2018 by Kirby Jackson
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