Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 15 hours ago, Boyst62 said: 10 posts in this thread. and what point have you made? your closest attempt besides the two buttons you love was saying that someone was wrong. real difficult, copypaste, real difficult. anyway, lets talk about this topic. you started it, lets discuss it. i'll wait here. patiently. i feel like singing tip toe to the window... will you be my flower? You're a Daisy if you do. 1
2003Contenders Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 I am not sure how accurate or meaningful this stat is. However, I would not be surprised. The WR corps remains a weak link for the team -- and was confounded by injuries to both Matthews and KB. Although Benjamin managed to play through his bum knee, clearly his speed was grotesquely diminished -- and he was hardly ever able to get any separation. Meanwhile, Tyrod's propensity for locking onto receivers and waiting until they came open rather than throwing with anticipation would have also been a factor in the receivers' separation stats. The team clearly needs an upgrade at both WR and QB positions -- which goes without saying and is hardly refutable. Hopefully a healthy KB and Matthews (if re-signed) in 2018 will make a difference.
Mr. WEO Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 16 hours ago, hemma said: 6.2 air yards. I said 5. 1.2 yards diff. BFD. I'd never noticed you, but you sure have my eyes on you now. He has 68,000 posts and you haven't noticed huh? Strong comeback. Anyway, your take was pretty lazy. 6.2 is better than Cousins, Carr, Brees, Dalton, Manning, Rodgers, Flacco.... 1
blacklabel Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 Going back to 2015 when they brought Roman in, they've emphasized so much on the run game that the passing game seems neglected. It's simplified, there's not a lot creativity involved and their route concepts aren't difficult for defenses to guard against. Combine that with a QB who 90% of the time doesn't throw it unless he sees his guy open and these are the kind of stats you end up with. McDermott didn't exactly give Dennison a vote of confidence during the season-ending press conference. I also wouldn't be surprised if he isn't exactly thrilled with the job WR coach Phil McGeoghan has done... or Juan Castillo... If they're going to draft and develop a guy, I don't see any use in replacing Taylor with a different bridge QB that's likely to cost more money and may not even be an upgrade. Get an OC that knows how to scheme around his players. Let TT do his thing for next season while the rookie learns and then move on in 2019 and have the OC tailor the offense to the new starter.
boyst Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 31 minutes ago, hemma said: KC's # looks very much like an outlier and the Bills may be too. When you look at individual players (A. Brown 2.6, Goodwin 2.2, etc) not sure there is much to be learned from any of these numbers. There is a lot to this if you know how to look at it for it's value. If you're going to look at adding Goodwin to your roster you look at the important stats first. Especially of your own team. You see the brown can be open easily and does so. You see he racks up yards and contributes but you realize that you need a WR to take the top off of him so he can do what he does best - YAC. So, you look at a fast WR who can catch in small windows and be used anywhere on the field in a way that mmust draw coverage. You don't need YAC from this guy but you need his speed to draw a safety even if he doesn't go deep. Goodwin is emerging as a Wr who can do that and with his 1000 yards in SF he now seems like he is on the right path. He would kill it in Pittsburgh right now because they could use someone like him. His numbers show that he can exploit a mismatch but his film shows he's not a number 1 or even 2. He will give you a huge bang for the buck as a #3 and #3. He will catch with no one around him because teams will not and should not dictate coverage for him in a system with bona fide wrs. I expect his 2018 numbers to be nearly in half unless SF brings in a few other pass catchers. They need a #1. If not to Watkins tag I'd see him going there with another WR big bodynand that offense would be the Rams of 2017 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He has 68,000 posts and you haven't noticed huh? Strong comeback. Anyway, your take was pretty lazy. 6.2 is better than Cousins, Carr, Brees, Dalton, Manning, Rodgers, Flacco.... I wouldn't say he has 68k posts. He has 40k pastes. He has 20k non topic snark replies. And 8k telling people they're wrong without evidence. He's easy to over look. No one reads the author of the article. Just the article.
Mr. WEO Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: I wouldn't say he has 68k posts. He has 40k pastes. He has 20k non topic snark replies. And 8k telling people they're wrong without evidence. He's easy to over look. No one reads the author of the article. Just the article. I disagree
hemma Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He has 68,000 posts and you haven't noticed huh? Strong comeback. Anyway, your take was pretty lazy. 6.2 is better than Cousins, Carr, Brees, Dalton, Manning, Rodgers, Flacco.... You can say that 6.2 is more, but not necessarily better. Brees to Kamara as an example. Same goes for post counts.
Mr. WEO Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, hemma said: You can say that 6.2 is more, but not necessarily better. Brees to Kamara as an example. Same goes for post counts. It proves false your original response, which is what 26 called you out on.
Mat68 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 Seems like an irrelevant stat and does not correlate to offensive passing success. Bottom third are all good offenses in there. 1
hemma Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It proves false your original response, which is what 26 called you out on. You know, I don't really want to argue with everyone just for the sake of arguing, but, I said: "5 yard passes don't require a whole lot of separation." and in my mind given that they are Pros, that remains true, be it for Brees or Taylor. Anyway, I think the fact that I joined this forum after the demise of BBMB had a lot more to do with the type of response I received than my actual comment. I suspect that this site's owner(s) are grateful for the additional traffic, but I may be wrong. Anyway, if they send me a note asking me to get lost, I'll certainly comply. A lower dose of Bills' talk probably wouldn't be a bad thing. Edited January 11, 2018 by hemma
Comebackkid Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 17 hours ago, Commonsense said: For those being fair, this should have some mention while they are debating Dennison's future. I would guess his genius route calling doesn't do the wrs any favors
boyst Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: It proves false your original response, which is what 26 called you out on. How? How is it false. Several say it. I've not seen an articulate rebuttle yet.
Mr. WEO Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 29 minutes ago, hemma said: You know, I don't really want to argue with everyone just for the sake of arguing, but, I said: "5 yard passes don't require a whole lot of separation." and in my mind given that they are Pros, that remains true, be it for Brees or Taylor. Anyway, I think the fact that I joined this forum after the demise of BBMB had a lot more to do with the type of response I received than my actual comment. I suspect that this site's owner(s) are grateful for the additional traffic, but I may be wrong. Anyway, if they send me a note asking me to get lost, I'll certainly comply. A lower dose of Bills' talk probably wouldn't be a bad thing. You were clearly implying TT only throws 5 yd passes. Anyway, stick around. No one is saying get lost. 1 minute ago, Boyst62 said: How? How is it false. Several say it. I've not seen an articulate rebuttle yet. See above.
ndirish1978 Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, PolishDave said: I know a lot of guys rag on you for pasting things from other sources. Just want to chime in and say I think you add a tremendous amount of value to this site by bringing in those outside sources without me having to go look for them myself. So anyway. Thanks. Sincerely. Agreed, thanks CB 18 hours ago, hemma said: 6.2 air yards. I said 5. 1.2 yards diff. BFD. I'd never noticed you, but you sure have my eyes on you now. What a pathetic overinflated sense of self-importance. You've been around here for a cup of coffee and anyone is supposed to care that you haven't noticed them? Not to mention the guy you're ripping on actually adds value to this board, while you add none. Take a walk. 17 hours ago, PolishDave said: After seeing the entire list, I am wondering how meaningful the stat really is. I don't see much correlation between separation and excellent passing games. Seems to be a bit all over the place. The main issue I have with this this stat is it is a reflection of 2 things and it doesn't really tell us which if those things was the issue in general: 1- the receivers aren't getting separation (which is true) and 2- the QB holds on to the ball for too long, waits for receivers to look open and then throws the ball once the coverage has had a change to recover and catch up (also true). The one thing I think it is helpful for is showing that the passing game is NOT good. Edited January 11, 2018 by ndirish1978 1 1
boyst Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: You were clearly implying TT only throws 5 yd passes. Anyway, stick around. No one is saying get lost. See above. Which part?
Mr. WEO Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 49 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Which part? First sentence.
Luka Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 18 hours ago, HappyDays said: I would say it's the opposite, when QBs extend the play that's when you see receivers get wide open. Tyrod has made that happen more than a few times. A common belief about Tyrod is he waits until receivers become college open before he throws the ball, but this statistic proves that is way off. Anyone can look at the film and see the receivers aren't getting separation. Not that it matters, Tyrod will be gone next year and hopefully we have a better receiving corps. You can say whatever you like, whether or not it's right is an entirely different story. When GOOD QB's extend plays, they get guys open because they are looking downfield. When Tyrod "extends a play" he's usually turning his back to the receivers to loop out of the pocket. While he's doing this he's missing any chance he has to find one of those openings that happen down field. Cover 1 went over the Jags game and there were a lot of opportunities that were missed. Tyrod would be a much different QB if he had pocket presence and stepped up when teams rush the edges to keep him contained. But if it hasn't happened yet it isn't going to happen.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 FWIW.....the universally respected Greg Cosell from NFL Films NFL Matchup was on WGR this am and said the Bills biggest offensive need was an explosive WR. It's not lost on the people who actually understand the X's and O's. Bills royally botched the WR situation this year..........trading Watkins totally changed the dynamic of the Bills offense. Not being able to stretch the defense vertically......much more than Dennison's middling OC work............ squashed the Bills previously dynamic running game and caused big drops in production from McCoy and Taylor.
boyst Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: First sentence. That he only only throws 5 yard passes? There is 90 degrees of separation between what he originally understood the article to be talking about and where we've taken the conversation. The fact remains that no argument has been made to say that this information matters nor is this article worthy of major discussion other than fodder for an offseason that looks like it's going to be very long I have yet to see one articulate point which would make me sway either way and calling his dad up pointless
Malazan Posted January 11, 2018 Posted January 11, 2018 21 hours ago, hemma said: Did you suddenly become a jackass or has that been long-term problem? I'm guessing the latter. No, the watkins trade sent him off the deep end.
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