Buffalo716 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) The most polarizing QB prospect in this class, Josh Allen, has coaches and scouts alike drooling over what they can mold this kid into. OVERVIEW The 6'5 230 pound JR looks the part. Josh Allen is an impressive athlete for a bigger guy. He shakes off defensive lineman with ease as he scrambles around to make a play. He has a quick release and arm strength more closely linked to a howitzer than a human. While his physical attributes are off the charts he certainly has a long way to go to becoming a refined passer. Touch, is not really is Josh's vocabulary yet. At short ranges he consistently throws uncatchable balls due to lack of touch and improper mechanics but he makes up for some of his short area shortcomings with an impressive deep ball and the ability to throw a WR open At times he displays too much faith in his arm which leads to poor decisions. He believes he can fit balls into windows that aren't there which leads to his never say die attitude. He never gives up on a play whether it is with his arm or legs which leads to big plays and some negative ones as well. Josh Allen is big, strong, young and shows plenty of promise. His arm strength is top notch and he routinely makes throws few others can. But he is still a raw QB who must work on the nuances of the QB position. If Josh can work out some issues in his mechanics and improve his ability to read the field the sky is the limit STRENGTHS - High end arm strength - Very good deep ball -Good accuracy on mid level throws -Great size -Very good athlete -throws on run well -has worked under center -good at extending plays -makes bigtime throws -plays with heart NEGATIVES - Not a nuanced passer - lacks touch on short throws - needs work on footwork - misses routine throws -sees windows that aren't there -throws up too many 50/50 balls -aggressiveness is a double edged sword - can improve vision when reading the field Bottom Line All in all josh Allen is a highly thought of prospect who will go off the board probably in the early part of the first round. His size, Athleticism and raw arm talent is enough to make plenty of GMs drool over and he's the perfect prospect to mold behind an established vet GRADE 78.6 ( high end PROSPECT) Edited January 18, 2018 by Buffalo716 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: NEGATIVES - Not a nuanced passer - lacks touch on short throws - needs work on footwork - misses routine throws -sees windows that aren't there -throws up too many 50/50 balls Those are very troubling negatives. Are there any examples of a guy coming in with these issues and actually correcting them? I'm drawing a blank trying to think of someone. Specifically the missing routine throws. It isn't going to get easier and the windows will get smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, section122 said: Those are very troubling negatives. Are there any examples of a guy coming in with these issues and actually correcting them? I'm drawing a blank trying to think of someone. Specifically the missing routine throws. It isn't going to get easier and the windows will get smaller. Off the top of my head No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: Off the top of my head No Yeah me either but I am sure there are some. This is an interesting year wrt the qb position. There are going to be so many camps even if/when the Bills draft a qb people are going to be mad. I haven't dove in yet but watched a lot of Mayfield and Darnold this year. I see the hype for Darnold and get why its there but he screams bust to me at the next level. I like Mayfield's moxy and style of play. Gonna be an interesting offseason! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, section122 said: Yeah me either but I am sure there are some. This is an interesting year wrt the qb position. There are going to be so many camps even if/when the Bills draft a qb people are going to be mad. I haven't dove in yet but watched a lot of Mayfield and Darnold this year. I see the hype for Darnold and get why its there but he screams bust to me at the next level. I like Mayfield's moxy and style of play. Gonna be an interesting offseason! Yea I'm sure there are a few examples just not any recent 1st round picks that I could think of from the last 10-20 years off my head I think Baker is the exact opposite of Allen as a passer. I will do one on Baker as well but I see Baker as a refined passer already able to play in an NFL west coast scheme he is a rythem passer who can throw to all levels with good touch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 58 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Yea I'm sure there are a few examples just not any recent 1st round picks that I could think of from the last 10-20 years off my head I think Baker is the exact opposite of Allen as a passer. I will do one on Baker as well but I see Baker as a refined passer already able to play in an NFL west coast scheme he is a rythem passer who can throw to all levels with good touch Sweet I look forward to it. Do you plan on going through all the top guys? Jackson, Mayfield, Rudolph, and Allen look to be the guys the Bills have a shot at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 49 minutes ago, section122 said: Sweet I look forward to it. Do you plan on going through all the top guys? Jackson, Mayfield, Rudolph, and Allen look to be the guys the Bills have a shot at. Yes. It takes a while to do so I can only do about 5-8 guys a year depending on the crop Allen, Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, and Jackson are all locks I will also do Mason Rudolph and maybe 1-2 other guys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: The most polarizing QB prospect in this class, Josh Allen, has coaches and scouts alike drooling over what they can mold this kid into. OVERVIEW The 6'5 230 pound JR looks the part. Josh Allen is an impressive athlete for a bigger guy. He shakes off defensive lineman with ease as he scrambles around to make a play. He has a quick release and arm strength more closely linked to a howitzer than a human. While his physical attributes are off the charts he certainly has a long way to go to becoming a refined passer. Touch, is not really is Josh's vocabulary yet. At short ranges he consistently throws uncatchable balls due to lack of touch and improper mechanics but he makes up for some of his short area shortcomings with an impressive deep ball and the ability to throw a WR open At times he displays too much faith in his arm which leads to poor decisions. He believes he can fit balls into windows that aren't there which leads to his never say die attitude. He never gives up on a play whether it is with his arm or legs which leads to big plays and some negative ones as well. Josh Allen is big, strong, young and shows plenty of promise. His arm strength is top notch and he routinely makes throws few others can. But he is still a raw QB who must work on the nuances of the QB position. If Josh can work out some issues in his mechanics and improve his ability to read the field the sky is the limit STRENGTHS - High end arm strength - Very good deep ball -Good accuracy on mid level throws -Great size -Very good athlete -throws on run well -has worked under center -good at extending plays -makes bigtime throws -plays with heart NEGATIVES - Not a nuanced passer - lacks touch on short throws - needs work on footwork - misses routine throws -sees windows that aren't there -throws up too many 50/50 balls -aggressiveness is a double edged sword - can improve vision when reading the field Bottom Line All in all josh Allen is a highly thought of prospect who will go off the board probably in the early part of the first round. His size, Athleticism and raw arm talent is enough to make plenty of GMs drool over and he's the perfect prospect to mold behind an established vet I am a huge Josh Allen fan. I think your assessment is fair and do want to say some of my thoughts. I bolded one of your positives because this is the biggest thing I learned about Allen from 2016 to 2017. In 2016 he was a first year starter and the lights of being a public figure and leader may have been a little bright for him. This year, he was the heart and competitive fire of that Wyoming team. With him injured Wyo lost to San Jose St - maybe the worst D1 program in the country this year - for heavens sake! What I saw this year from Allen was a competitiveness in the mold of Phillip Rivers. I knew from 2016 his physical abilities, in 2017 you got to see his heart. To get to some of his negatives. He is not a nuanced passer. He never attended big time QB camps bc he was a country boy playing multiple sports. He has basically risen to his stature based on his immense talent without much molding. Even at Wyoming, Bohl is a defensive coach not meant to develop great QBs. If you can get a good QB coach with Allen, even one of those gurus like Big Ben went to, I think he would develop fast. Do i think Allen will ever become a franchise QB? I think the odds are stacked against him BUT they are stacked against ever QB coming out of college. In the end, Allen’s god given abilities is going to give him an edge in the NFL. He can hit throws and windows no one else can. That will give him a chance because it’ll let him get away with more things until he gets better used to the game. He will be perfect in a cold weather, open stadium team that lets him air it out a lot, not bubble screens. I think Denver is going to draft him and that’ll be a great spot for him. Pittsburgh would also be great. As would Buffalo. I’m really rooting for the kid and will be ecstatic if he is a Bill. IMO, he is just shy of what Big Ben was coming out but with a more fiery attitude. 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: Yes. It takes a while to do so I can only do about 5-8 guys a year depending on the crop Allen, Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, and Jackson are all locks I will also do Mason Rudolph and maybe 1-2 other guys I’d suggest Mike White from WKU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, LEBills said: I am a huge Josh Allen fan. I think your assessment is fair and do want to say some of my thoughts. I bolded one of your positives because this is the biggest thing I learned about Allen from 2016 to 2017. In 2016 he was a first year starter and the lights of being a public figure and leader may have been a little bright for him. This year, he was the heart and competitive fire of that Wyoming team. With him injured Wyo lost to San Jose St - maybe the worst D1 program in the country this year - for heavens sake! What I saw this year from Allen was a competitiveness in the mold of Phillip Rivers. I knew from 2016 his physical abilities, in 2017 you got to see his heart. To get to some of his negatives. He is not a nuanced passer. He never attended big time QB camps bc he was a country boy playing multiple sports. He has basically risen to his stature based on his immense talent without much molding. Even at Wyoming, Bohl is a defensive coach not meant to develop great QBs. If you can get a good QB coach with Allen, even one of those gurus like Big Ben went to, I think he would develop fast. Do i think Allen will ever become a franchise QB? I think the odds are stacked against him BUT they are stacked against ever QB coming out of college. In the end, Allen’s god given abilities is going to give him an edge in the NFL. He can hit throws and windows no one else can. That will give him a chance because it’ll let him get away with more things until he gets better used to the game. He will be perfect in a cold weather, open stadium team that lets him air it out a lot, not bubble screens. I think Denver is going to draft him and that’ll be a great spot for him. Pittsburgh would also be great. As would Buffalo. I’m really rooting for the kid and will be ecstatic if he is a Bill. IMO, he is just shy of what Big Ben was coming out but with a more fiery attitude. I agree with a lot of what you have to say. him not growing up in the big time passing camps definitely hurt his recruiting and his development a bit but his God given talent is why he will be drafted so high Edited January 11, 2018 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 56% as a sophomore. 56.3% as a junior. These are troubling numbers. For or someone who’s expected to be a high pick, you’d think he’d be able to complete more passes. And It has nothing to do with the talent he throws to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 51 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: 56% as a sophomore. 56.3% as a junior. These are troubling numbers. For or someone who’s expected to be a high pick, you’d think he’d be able to complete more passes. And It has nothing to do with the talent he throws to. He didnt get inflated spread numbers. No smoke screens for a third of his passes. Imo one of the biggest take aways with Allen is he has won more games at Wyoming than and Qb in a 2 year stretch since at minimum 1989. They were 2-10 before he arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 It's amazing that a 56% passer with a terrible QBR from the Mountain West is being talked about as a 1st rounder. Being tall is awesome. 52 minutes ago, Mat68 said: He didnt get inflated spread numbers. No smoke screens for a third of his passes. Imo one of the biggest take aways with Allen is he has won more games at Wyoming than and Qb in a 2 year stretch since at minimum 1989. They were 2-10 before he arrived. I don't have the time but the amount of college Qbs who complete less than 60% who become successful NFL Qbs is very rare. There was a ton of hype about Connor Cook coming out, who completed less than 60% of his passes. In the Big Ten. Cook got beat out in camp by EJ. If we were a team like GB, maybe I could get behind a project like Allen. But when a team hasn't developed a qb in over 30 years, you need a more complete one in the first round. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Yea I'm sure there are a few examples just not any recent 1st round picks that I could think of from the last 10-20 years off my head I think Baker is the exact opposite of Allen as a passer. I will do one on Baker as well but I see Baker as a refined passer already able to play in an NFL west coast scheme he is a rythem passer who can throw to all levels with good touch Which is why we should draft Mayfield. C'mon Cleveland get Allen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said: Which is why we should draft Mayfield. C'mon Cleveland get Allen! I really am starting to get a little QB man crush on Baker and that doesnt happen often I usually am pretty reserved especially about QBs but some people just have "it". He can sling a football no doubt. Much better than a guy his size should be able too. ive seen him rip it 55-60 yards backfoot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: I really am starting to get a little QB man crush on Baker and that doesnt happen often I usually am pretty reserved especially about QBs but some people just have "it". He can sling a football no doubt. Much better than a guy his size should be able too. ive seen him rip it 55-60 yards backfoot Amen brother. I didn't like him last year because he was Oklahoma spread and small. However every year I watch all the QBs weather I like them or not and he just kept impressing me and now Im all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It's amazing that a 56% passer with a terrible QBR from the Mountain West is being talked about as a 1st rounder. Being tall is awesome. I don't have the time but the amount of college Qbs who complete less than 60% who become successful NFL Qbs is very rare. There was a ton of hype about Connor Cook coming out, who completed less than 60% of his passes. In the Big Ten. Cook got beat out in camp by EJ. If we were a team like GB, maybe I could get behind a project like Allen. But when a team hasn't developed a qb in over 30 years, you need a more complete one in the first round. No less than qbs under 6'1 or Qbs from the Big12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Keep him.. you can't mold a QB that has never demonstrated consitent accuracy in College ALl I see is EJ Manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Son Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I could see us drafting him to sit and develop for a year or two behind an Alex Smith type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 3 hours ago, ddaryl said: Keep him.. you can't mold a QB that has never demonstrated consitent accuracy in College ALl I see is EJ Manual And yet Manuel had 65.1 69.9 65.3 68.0 For his four years of completion percentages in college. I'm not saying Allen is accurate, but there is more to a QB's accuracy than college stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Woodman19 said: And yet Manuel had 65.1 69.9 65.3 68.0 For his four years of completion percentages in college. I'm not saying Allen is accurate, but there is more to a QB's accuracy than college stats. This is true.. but he also came in with lots of question marks about his accuracy just the same. and his 1st 2 years he had less than 100 attempts. His college game plan was divide the field in half.. SO EJ's ability to progress through full reads was a huge unknown since he was never required to do it You will find a good amount of 60 + % career college passers not make it in the NFL. You will be EXTREMELY HARD PRESSED to find any college QB whom had a sub 60% completion pct... do much of anything at the pro level... As it stands right now I think Allen's pro career will be similar to Manuels. maybe Allen breaks the trend but if your a gambling man the odds are greatly stacked against this BUT this part of the quote below is exactly what they used to sell EJ Quote His size, Athleticism and raw arm talent is enough to make plenty of GMs drool over and he's the perfect prospect to mold behind an established vet Edited January 11, 2018 by ddaryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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