Why Sean McDermott Can't Make The Same Mistake Chan Gailey Did

[PolishDave]

6 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

How so? We were 9-7 this year, made the playoffs and were a TD away from advancing.  We still have all that cap space and a bunch of draft picks.

 

I'm thinking we win 10 next year MeV n if Rico stays.

 

REX Did pretty much the same.  His first year his D stunk up the joint. He kept his coordinator and hired his ineffective brother go "help".

 

I'm kind of torn on this. Our O underperformed no doubt. Perhaps a year of continuity may Improve things. Not sure.

 

The problem with your logic is that every other team in the NFL is thinking they are going to improve by a game or two at least.     Every team upgrades each year - at least they try to.   So your upgraded team is playing against other upgraded teams = parity.     To get ahead of other teams you need to take a step ahead (while they stay where they are) or (while they take a step back).

 

If the other teams take a step ahead in some areas, then you need to take two steps ahead to actually get better than them.    Get it?

 

Every year, Bills fans assume that because of improvements the Bills make in the off-season they are automatically going to have a better record the next year.    It doesn't work that way.    You have to improve much more than your opponents because most opponents are also improving.

[Thurman#1]

44 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

This is where the Wannstedt move was key.  We signed Mario. Moats, Carrington, Searcy,  Dareus, and Williams all started and played for a number of years.  Not all for us but enough that you can see other coordinators were able to get production out of them.  Wannstedt really did an awful job.  I think losing Searcy had a large effect of Rex later on.  I feel like having two CB's at safety and Mario in give up mode is a large part of why Rex was so bad against the run.

 

 

Agreed that Wanny was bad. But the thing that killed me about all those moves was the constant switch from 3-4 to 4-3 and back. You keep doing that and you will make good players into bad ones and you'll shed guys who then play well elsewhere.

 

But though Moats, Mario, Carrington, Searcy, and Dareus played elsewhere, there were no world-beaters in that group after they left Buffalo. Just decent players.

 

I just wish they'd have picked one scheme, 4-3 or 3-4, and when they fired a DC, they had then brought in a different DC who could at least have coached the same personnel lineup even if there were tweaks and differences between the systems. Instead they went back and forth and back and forth.

 

It's where the Rex move killed us. We moved from a very successful Schwartz 4-3 to a system that needed different guys.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Maine-iac]

You are right I don't think the back and forth helped anything but with that said Pettine had us top ten in defense and top 5 in passing defense with the 3-4 and largely the same people that Rex got after Schwartz.  Maybe Thurman was horrible.  I definately thought Rob Ryan was horrible, see the Saints, before he came over and Rex couldn't make an impact.  How anyone with Mario, Dareus, Kyle, and Hughes coudn't get a pass rush is beyond me.  I was hoping Ryan would bring Pettine in after he got done in Cleveland.

[hondo in seattle]

It's not just a Chan thing.  It's been a long time since we had good coordinators on both sides of the ball.   That's been a problem with every head coach since Marv.

[BuffaloBill]

No doubt that the selection of coordinators in combination with the presence of a solid QB makes or breaks a HC.  I think this is especially the case with the choice of coordinator who does not align with the HC’s specialty and background.  

[Buddo]

I don't think it's the same, at all. Edwards had next to no experience in running a D, whereas Dennison has been involved in Offenses, for years, although his play calling stints have been very limited.

 

People talk about changing OCs like it doesn't matter. It does. Something that has been commented on, a lot, this year, that I've rarely heard from commentators before, was how well some plays have been designed. That's Dennison. It's also been commented on, especially by Romo, that Taylor simply wasn't either seeing the opportunities, or in effect, not having the guts to take them.  Yet we still won more games than we lost.

 

Dennison's biggest weakness is in play calling, not iin the design of the offence. His second biggest weakness, is in the personnel he's been given to run the offense. As they aren't that good, Shady, and maybe Benjamin aside.

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

Good post.

 

But I'd argue that personnel was at least as much of a factor as the coordinator was.

 

The draft picks in 2010 were Spiller, Troup (might have been a terrific choice, but his back injury derailed his career), Carrington, Easley, Wang, Moats, Batten, Levi Brown and Kyle Calloway.

 

Then in 2011, with the #3 pick, Dareus, Aaron Williams, and then nothing, really, Kelvin Sheppard, Da'Norris Searcy, Hairston, Johnny White, Chris White, Justin Rogers and Michael Jasper.

 

 

 

I just want them to coldly analyze their problems and not make decisions out of loyalty. I'm not convinced that the problem is Dennison, but if they decide that he's a problem, let him go.

Absolutely spot on.  I'd wager if the Bills 'hit' on the draft and free agency on the offensive side of the ball Dennison's play calling is going to look a lot better.  But that won't necessarily mean he's a good OC.  Not being in the room with management and the coaches I don't have a real good idea on that.  All I see is what happens on Sunday.  What I see is an offense that was mostly ineffective with a few bright spots throughout the season.  Checking scoring I found it amazing the Bills offense did not score a 3rd quarter TD in the last 9 games and only 3 in the 4th (plus 1 in OT against the Colts) which came during garbage time in routs by the Saints and Chargers.  

 

To some extent systems and processes are overrated because you also need talent to make them work.  There's a balance to be found and its not there right now.  An infusion of talent is needed and then likely better use of them by the OC..    

Edited January 10, 2018 by All_Pro_Bills
spelling correction

[Doc]

A better QB will make Dennison look better. That being said, they can do better than Dennison. 

[BigBuff423]

I agree that McD needs to make the break now, and demonstrate that being capable and good at your responsibility extends to all positions, all staff....everyone at OBD. Also, I agree that NOW with some great OCs becoming available and NOT having the QB is the time to do it....

 

Darrell Bevell please!!

[Tenhigh]

I wouldbe fine keeping Rico around to draw up plays, but unless McD is telling him what type of scheme to run every game, we need to bring him in some help in that regard. 

[mjt328]

Rick Dennison forced a system on his players that didn't:

a) Fit the quarterback

b) Fit the offensive linemen

 

It's not surprising in the slightest that our offense took a big step backwards.  Many of us expected it the moment Dennison was hired.  One of my preseason predictions was that Dennison would be the "scapegoat" after the season, when the offense held the rest of the team back.  I didn't expect us to make the playoffs, but that prediction was spot on. 

 

With that said, this offseason we are almost certainly going to replace the quarterback.  Signs are pointing to us trading Cordy Glenn.  We need replacements at both right guard and right tackle.  Our left guard will be 35 when the season starts and our center will be 32.  So most of the pieces that didn't fit are on their way out the door.

 

Success in the NFL is about matching talent to scheme.  If Dennison had players that fit what he was trying to do, there is a good chance he would be more successful. 

[VirginiaMike]

9 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

With the speculation swirling about Rick Dennision, this situation made me remember back to 2010.  It was Chan Gailey's first year as coach of the Bills.  Now there are many difference between Gailey's first year and the inaugural season of Sean McDermott.  McDermott has way more power at OBD that Chan ever did.  Also overall his first year was successful, whereas Chan's way not. However there  is one similarity in regards to coordinators.

 

In Chan's first year, the Bills sucked big time and finished 4-12.  However, Chan was able to get surprising production on offense from a talent level that was average to below average.  While their record was dreadful, the Bills fought hard and lost 6 games by 1 score of less.  As you know Chan's background was offense and he was regarded as having a good mind on that side of the ball.  He basically ran the show and called plays - he was coach and OC.  The obvious problem with the Bills throughout the 2010 season was the defense.  There were some talented players on defense (Byrd, Whitner, Poz, Kyle) but by the end of the year it was clear the defense was costing the team games. They were ranked toward the bottom of the league in defense (#24) and were blown out the last two games of the year.

 

It was painfully obvious that Chan knew offense but needed more help with the defense.  It was also clear change needed to made.  Chan should have fired George Edwards( the current  "defensive coordinator" with in Minnesota - notice the air quotes), but instead, being the loyal person he is, Chan stood by his coordinator and brought him back in 2011.  The result?  An even worse defense ranked 26th in the league.  By that time, his hand was forced and he fired George.  Sadly, rather than reaching outside the organization to someone with fresh ideas and a difference perspective, he gave the reigns to Dave Wannstedt who was an assistant defensive coach.  It was an uninspiring choice and the results were barely better (22nd overall). And so, because Chan never could get competent people to run his defense he was fired and squandered away his last head coaching position in the NFL.

 

Back to 2017

 

The current situation with Rick Dennison reeks of the Chan/Edwards dilemma.  Like Chan, McDermott knows defense but it definitely appears he's going to need a stronger coordinator to run the other side of the ball.  I think most fans/media that know this team well, realize Dennison's overall uninspiring offense this season.  Like with George Edwards, you can point to a few factors that worked about Dennison (Tyrod, WR's) but overall the results this year were especially bad.  

 

I just hope that McDermott makes a better choice that Chan Gailey did with Edwards.  Because if the move isn't made this, there's a good chance they'll be making the move on season later.  

Nicely said -- Dilly Dilly

[Gordio]

Good post.  With that being said though it is all about the QB.  We have all seen the aerial shots of receivers running open throughout the year & Taylor flat out missing his read or throwing the ball 10 yards over the receiver's head.  Is it Dennison's fault his QB can't complete a pass farther than 10 yards?  Give Dennison a good QB & he will be fine. 

[cd1]

1 hour ago, Maine-iac said:

If Gailey had brought in Pettine  instead of Wannstedt he might still be a head coach.

 

THAT is the difference between a good and bad head coach.

 

I have been on the fence regarding Dennison. I actually would like to see him replaced.

 

HOWEVER, I can't help but remembering all of those receivers who were open play after play.  Could Dennison call a good game IF his QB was able to perform better? 

 

Also, with regard to our run game, is it our O line coach that needs replacing?

 

These questions make me hesitant to just blame it all on Dennison.

[Maine-iac]

15 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Rick Dennison forced a system on his players that didn't:

a) Fit the quarterback

b) Fit the offensive linemen

 

It's not surprising in the slightest that our offense took a big step backwards.  Many of us expected it the moment Dennison was hired.  One of my preseason predictions was that Dennison would be the "scapegoat" after the season, when the offense held the rest of the team back.  I didn't expect us to make the playoffs, but that prediction was spot on. 

 

With that said, this offseason we are almost certainly going to replace the quarterback.  Signs are pointing to us trading Cordy Glenn.  We need replacements at both right guard and right tackle.  Our left guard will be 35 when the season starts and our center will be 32.  So most of the pieces that didn't fit are on their way out the door.

 

Success in the NFL is about matching talent to scheme.  If Dennison had players that fit what he was trying to do, there is a good chance he would be more successful. 

I think it all starts with what you said in that they never expected to make the playoffs or be remotely competitive.  The gutted the WR corps and switched coordinators what did they reasonably expect out of the passing game?  Then mid season they started "throwing things at the wall to see what sticks".  They switched QB's back and forth and tried bringing in a WR who immediately got hurt.  All that said if you basicaly have a gutted roster on offense and a coordinator who wasn't your first pick and didn't leave you feeling all warm and fuzzy about what he has to offer wouldn't this be the perfect time to bring in someone better.  That said I'm not a large Mike McCoy fan either.

[DefenseWins]

I didn't think that Dennison was the problem at all this season. It was the QB period. There were plenty of plays there to have been made in this playoff game that TT clearly failed on. How is it the OC's "fault" that the QB cannot execute his offense? Does anyone not remember how awful TT had been playing prior to his benching? Do you think that McD benched TT on a mere whim? 

[Steptide]

The thing with McDermott is, I believe he knows what he's doing. If Dennison gets fired, then I will believe he was partially responsible for the offensive woes. If he is retained, then I'll have to believe most of the offensive problems fall on Tyrod and other players. I believe McDermott will absolutely do what's best

[VaMilBill]

13 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

How so? We were 9-7 this year, made the playoffs and were a TD away from advancing.  We still have all that cap space and a bunch of draft picks.

 

I'm thinking we win 10 next year MeV n if Rico stays.

 

REX Did pretty much the same.  His first year his D stunk up the joint. He kept his coordinator and hired his ineffective brother go "help".

 

I'm kind of torn on this. Our O underperformed no doubt. Perhaps a year of continuity may Improve things. Not sure.

Well it's my opinion. The Raiders severely regressed this year. The Bengals regressed this year. The Browns regressed. 

 

I make this point because I think this roster overachieved and normally games we lose (Atlanta, TB, Indy) we happened to win. On pretty lucky plays mind you. 

 

Even throughout the season you could see regression. Our defense stopped getting all the turnovers and we went into a slump. Our offense was abysmal pretty much since the Raiders game. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Those who chose not to learn from history’s mistakes are doomed to repeat them!!

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

We've had 2 different OC's by 2 different HC's and Tyrod Taylor has not been able to take his play to the next level, I believe it's safe to say that is who he is by now. With that being said, would Dennison be a solid OC with a better QB? He lead us to the 3rd best rushing attack, if we had a QB worth a damn I think he could be a very good OC, just my opinion.

Edited January 10, 2018 by BuffaloBillsGospel