The reasons why the Bills will not change O Coordinator in offseason - Per WGR on-air discussion

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Deonte Thompson was signed off the street in week 6 and started as many games as Matthews did. He was tied for most catches by a WR with Zay Jones, but had 23 fewer targets than Zay, and he had the most receiving yards of any of our WRs by 115 yards.

 

This is a guy who was cut by the Bears, who's biggest weakness going into the draft might just be WR

Doesn't this reflect well in Dennison?

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

Discussion on WGR arctually points to some valid reasons why a new OC is unlikely this offseason.  The primary points are:

 

• The QB situation is a complete unknown.  There is no guarantee the Bills land a top FA or a top prospect in the draft
• No OC worth their salt is going to come to a team with the QB position that is that undetermined and cloudy
• The Bills can’t tip their hand on offensive and draft strategies to outside OC candidates.  They will not be able to say either way that they will aggressively pursue a QB either through FA or the draft. Even if they do, the Bills fate probably involves a willing partner in the situation.
•  The WR corps is a mess.  So not only does the OC need to fix the QB role he would have to rebuild the WR position
• Shady is getting old by NFL RB standards as are Incognito and Woods.  No guarantee that the ground game remains solid in Buffalo.  
• McDermott is not a high profile coach who will “lift” the career of an OC that has his sights on a HC job
• The Bills have talent gaps on both sides of the ball.  Which do they give priority to?  No OC will want to come in if the Bills state that their priority is to first address the gaps on the D side of the ball.

 

The more I think about the above the more it would seem that the Bills have a very weak hand when it comes to the idea of brining in a “known” entity at OC.  Maybe some “up and comer” takes a flier but even that seems unlikely given there are not a lot of tools in the toolbox to work with.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

All facts.

 

If I would have said it people would have been in an outrage.

 

It's an ugly looking job if it opens up.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

Is there any reason he would not come back from his injury?  And while Zay had his problems, it seems to me many wrs take a few years to really establish themselves.  It's certainly too early to write him off.  Overall, however, we need more playmakers.  It would be nice to at least have one burner with decent hands at wr, for instance.

Someone like Marquise Goodwin.

[boyst]

26 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

The OC is getting pounded on by fans that want to point to him as the main problem over Tyrod. Fans that want Tyrod to stay another season or two are delusional in thinking OC#4 will help Tyrod be a better QB. It is not Tyrod that is the problem it is the OC. SMH

 

Zero reason to keep Tyrod and pay him all that money, he is not good enough period. He would be a horrible mentor and for a new OC to come in to scrap there scheme for just Tyrod is a disaster waiting to happen all over again. Need all QBs  on the same page not a special short bus scheme for Tyrod while other play a different one. IMO

Good thing you bolded that.

 

And I don't want Dennison gone because I think Taylor is better than he is.  I want Dennison gone because he played poor play calls constantly. 

 

Sure, we think of the run pass option Taylor kept but if dennison gave him that option and if Benjamin played the play correctly it'd be world of difference.

 

I want to know why Dennison benched Taylor to play Peterman when per many, many people from training camp thru week 4 we're saying Peterman is not grasping the speed of the NFL and the offense. This was from talks with people familiar with the organization and bottom line is simple: everyone on the team saw Peterman couldn't play at the NFL level in practice and here comes McD letting Dennison make the call to bench Taylor when we had a legitimate chance to make the playoffs.  The players were checked out that game for that reason. McDermott and Co. lost the team that day. We didn't recover.  But, that is on McDermott.

 

But Dennison seeing Peterman gave us a better chance is square peg round hole type of **** we saw him playing all season.

 

The fact that we called pass protection where Wood would get thrown around was a joke.  Taylor having to scramble outside around the pocket is a result of poor blocking in the middle. When we blocked much better with Kromer and a different offense those middle of the field passes Taylor seldom makes we're available and he would run and get yardage. I hated it but it was better than him rolling out of the pocket where if he passes he is throwing off of his front foot or going to run and not pick up the yardage he needs.

 

We lost on Sunday because we could not whore. The jaguars defense didn't stop us. They gave up drives left and right.  We failed offensively and if we win it would be the same story for the Jags offense losing, but our defense was much, much better.

 

Taylor is not going to win us a championship but he is better than going in unknown and the only opportunity we have for upgrade that I'd consider is Alex Smtih. (though, I've heard the Bills were considering all in for Cousins mid season).  We dumped Fitz and got stuck with Orton, Manuel, Tuel, Kolb, Leinert, Young, Celino and Barnes. ... That didn't work.   A rookie won't cost much so unless we are pulling the trigger and land the right vet we need to roll in to 2018 knowing we at least have Taylor and hope we can score something in the draft.

[Mat68]

The team on a whole exceeded expectations from many.  Off a successful year and still implementing his system I think for the most part Mcdermott's staff remains the same.  If Wrs were not running open than i could see a change.  After Sunday I think the issue was with Qb play.  That is going to be the biggest change this off-season Imo.  I think Buffalo is first going to target Cousins, than a vikings Qb, after that they will go all in for a Qb early in the draft.  Outside of Cousins or Keenum or even Bridgewater the rest of Qb market would be bridge Qbs.  If Buffalo doesnt get the interest from the aforementioned Qb I could see them picking up Taylors option and trading him on draft day.  

Edited January 9, 2018 by Mat68

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

Doesn't this reflect well in Dennison?

It reflects poorly on our FO, which created the need to even get Thompson in the first place. I don't think you can look at any of our offensive stats and say it reflects well on Dennison, honestly.

[nucci]

Coaches need jobs. Not many out there....

[PIZ]

I disagree with just about all of this:

• The QB situation is a complete unknown.  There is no guarantee the Bills land a top FA or a top prospect in the draft.  If they want to spend the money they can get a good QB.  If they want to give up draft picks, they can get a top QB from the draft.
• No OC worth their salt is going to come to a team with the QB position that is that undetermined and cloudy.  See above.
• The Bills can’t tip their hand on offensive and draft strategies to outside OC candidates.  They will not be able to say either way that they will aggressively pursue a QB either through FA or the draft. Even if they do, the Bills fate probably involves a willing partner in the situation.  Anyone who watched the Bills knows they are going to make big changes at QB.  All the OC needs to know is that they are 100% determined to get a top QB in place, and they want the OC to help them do so.  That would be exciting for any OC.
•  The WR corps is a mess.  So not only does the OC need to fix the QB role he would have to rebuild the WR position.  It is only a mess because the QB play was so terrible.
• Shady is getting old by NFL RB standards as are Incognito and Woods.  No guarantee that the ground game remains solid in Buffalo.  I believe they would have at least a few years left.  Also, Free Agency.  
• McDermott is not a high profile coach who will “lift” the career of an OC that has his sights on a HC job.  That didn’t stop McCoy from signing with the Broncos.  Any good OC would be excited by this.  Also, why does he have to be high profile.  Get a young up and comer.  Sean McVay worked with an unknown in Gruden at Washington, and look where he is at.  You pay him and he will sign.
• The Bills have talent gaps on both sides of the ball.  Which do they give priority to?  No OC will want to come in if the Bills state that their priority is to first address the gaps on the D side of the ball.  They just made the playoffs, have tons of draft equity, and enough $ to spend in FA.  They are not in cap hell.  This is a good thing.

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

The team on a whole exceeded expectations from many.  Off a successful year and still implementing his system I think for the most part Mcdermott's staff remains the same.  If Wrs were not running open than i could see the a change.  After Sunday I think the issue was with Qb play.  That is going to be the biggest change this off-season Imo.  I think Buffalo is first going to target Cousins, than a vikings Qb, after that they will go all in for a Qb early in the draft.  Outside of Cousins or Keenum or even Bridgewater the rest of Qb market would be bridge Qbs.  If Buffalo doesnt get the interest from the aforementioned Qb I could see them picking up his option and trade on draft day.  

I think the Minnesota qbs are bridge qbs.  Never saw much from Bridgewater and Keenum is having an outlier year, imo, with the benefit of an outstanding defense.  Cousins will cost more than the level of play he will deliver.  I hope we target a young qb in the draft.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

Shady may be getting older, but he doesn't appear to be really slowing down. 

 

 

Shady's ypc dropped nearly 1.5 yards.    He had 3-4 games this year where he just looked like he woke up with nothing.  He's turned into a consummate pro but if you don't think he's declined or can't at least see how that perception would be there then you aren't being impartial.    Realistically they need to cut his carries by about 100 to get his per touch production up and need to get another back in here who can give you high production.    I'm not talking about Tolbert matching his 4 ypc again either LOL.    

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Good read, thanks!

No problem HB.  

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Shady's ypc dropped nearly 1.5 yards.    He had 3-4 games this year where he just looked like he woke up with nothing.  He's turned into a consummate pro but if you don't think he's declined or can't at least see how that perception would be there then you aren't being impartial.    Realistically they need to cut his carries by about 100 to get his per touch production up and need to get another back in here who can give you high production.    I'm not talking about Tolbert matching his 4 ypc again either LOL.    

I don't trust a process that consistently used Tolbert as a number two back.  They made a lot of questionable personnel decisions on offense.  You can find good rbs later in the draft.  I keep pushing for Sony Michel, but he might go second round I suppose.

[PolishDave]

24 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I've been a big critic of Dennison, but I've been wondering how much of the offensive scheme is Dennison and how much is it McDermott?  In other words, what if McDermott told Dennison: run an offensive predicated on pocket passing, and Dennison simply complied.

Just thinking about this past season's offense, it at least appears that McDermott did not tell Dennison to run an offense based on Tyrod's skillset and strengths.  If he did, we would have seen more spread formations, bootlegs, QB options, etc; it would have looked more like a college offense.

 

Those discussions would have happened before McDermott agreed to hire Dennison.    McDermott had to be onboard with whatever offensive ideas Dennison had - otherwise he doesn't hire him to join his executive team.

 

But yes, as the season unfolded and Dennison was reluctant to revert back to last year's running attack while still trying to fix the passing game, then McDermott should have been much more involved and forced Dennison to do what was proven to work.    McDermott shares the blame for that.    He can fix it by admitting it was the wrong hire and moving on to someone he could have more confidence in as an offensive football expert.

[BillsVet]

 

Just now, davspo said:

Playoff team with a talented young coach and an owner who has buckets of money-  people still work for money right?

 

There are at least 6 teams who need an OC in 2018: IND, KC, OAK, NYG, CHI, and AZ.  Based on quarterback alone, at least 3 of those are better scenarios for someone who looking to be an OC.

 

Even if McD fired Dennison, during interviews all he can offer is a plan for what Buffalo wants to do at QB. And, as the OP noted, the interior OL is aging/less talented, McCoy will be 30 next season, and the WR group is weak save for Benjamin. Talking about draft picks is not going to win someone over the way it can a fan base.

 

Put yourself in a career-minded offensive assistant's shoes...would you sign up for what Buffalo offers? I wouldn't.

 

 

 

 

[nucci]

16 minutes ago, davspo said:

Playoff team with a talented young coach and an owner who has buckets of money-  people still work for money right?

Don't most NFL owners have buckets of money?  

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

There are at least 6 teams who need an OC in 2018: IND, KC, OAK, NYG, CHI, and AZ.  Based on quarterback alone, at least 3 of those are better scenarios for someone who looking to be an OC.

 

Even if McD fired Dennison, during interviews all he can offer is a plan for what Buffalo wants to do at QB. And, as the OP noted, the interior OL is aging/less talented, McCoy will be 30 next season, and the WR group is weak save for Benjamin. Talking about draft picks is not going to win someone over the way it can a fan base.

 

Put yourself in a career-minded offensive assistant's shoes...would you sign up for what Buffalo offers? I wouldn't.

I honestly don't see KC looking for an OC. Childress is still there, and will likely just resume playcalling duties as he was previously the Assistant OC I believe.

[xRUSHx]

7 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Good thing you bolded that.

 

And I don't want Dennison gone because I think Taylor is better than he is.  I want Dennison gone because he played poor play calls constantly. 

 

Sure, we think of the run pass option Taylor kept but if dennison gave him that option and if Benjamin played the play correctly it'd be world of difference.

 

I want to know why Dennison benched Taylor to play Peterman when per many, many people from training camp thru week 4 we're saying Peterman is not grasping the speed of the NFL and the offense. This was from talks with people familiar with the organization and bottom line is simple: everyone on the team saw Peterman couldn't play at the NFL level in practice and here comes McD letting Dennison make the call to bench Taylor when we had a legitimate chance to make the playoffs.  The players were checked out that game for that reason. McDermott and Co. lost the team that day. We didn't recover.  But, that is on McDermott.

 

But Dennison seeing Peterman gave us a better chance is square peg round hole type of **** we saw him playing all season.

 

The fact that we called pass protection where Wood would get thrown around was a joke.  Taylor having to scramble outside around the pocket is a result of poor blocking in the middle. When we blocked much better with Kromer and a different offense those middle of the field passes Taylor seldom makes we're available and he would run and get yardage. I hated it but it was better than him rolling out of the pocket where if he passes he is throwing off of his front foot or going to run and not pick up the yardage he needs.

 

We lost on Sunday because we could not whore. The jaguars defense didn't stop us. They gave up drives left and right.  We failed offensively and if we win it would be the same story for the Jags offense losing, but our defense was much, much better.

 

Taylor is not going to win us a championship but he is better than going in unknown and the only opportunity we have for upgrade that I'd consider is Alex Smtih. (though, I've heard the Bills were considering all in for Cousins mid season).  We dumped Fitz and got stuck with Orton, Manuel, Tuel, Kolb, Leinert, Young, Celino and Barnes. ... That didn't work.   A rookie won't cost much so unless we are pulling the trigger and land the right vet we need to roll in to 2018 knowing we at least have Taylor and hope we can score something in the draft.

I did not bold and see nothing in my post that made that happen, sorry about that.

 

IMO keeping Tyrod is not helping anything. His contract is too big for his not good enough play, having our OC use two schemes for his QBs since Taylor needs the short bus scheme. He is not a mentor look how bad Peterman looked I am sure Taylor pushed his team mates to play horribly in LA to help keep Tyrod as the starter for the rest of the year. Keeping Tyrod would have our rookie in a hole the entire time because of fans and Tyrod friends on the team that will push him to be the starter. They need to move on If they want to get better at the position, use his money for other positions. If this staff wants a Mario W type of locker room cancer keeping him is the right choice IMO.

[Buffalo_Gal]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

There are at least 6 teams who need an OC in 2018: IND, KC, OAK, NYG, CHI, and AZ.  Based on quarterback alone, at least 3 of those are better scenarios for someone who looking to be an OC.

 

Even if McD fired Dennison, during interviews all he can offer is a plan for what Buffalo wants to do at QB. And, as the OP noted, the interior OL is aging/less talented, McCoy will be 30 next season, and the WR group is weak save for Benjamin. Talking about draft picks is not going to win someone over the way it can a fan base.

 

Put yourself in a career-minded offensive assistant's shoes...would you sign up for what Buffalo offers? I wouldn't.

 

 

 

 

 Money + ego could work to Buffalo's advantage. 

Everyone ***** on Tyrod, but Dennison did him no favors this year. I think that was a case of hubris (or possibly the inability to adapt) on Dennison's part - "I'll MAKE him a pocket passer" - taking away Tyrod's legs (a positive). 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't trust a process that consistently used Tolbert as a number two back.  They made a lot of questionable personnel decisions on offense.  You can find good rbs later in the draft.  I keep pushing for Sony Michel, but he might go second round I suppose.

 

 

It's a very old team with a lot of holes to fill.   The O was unwatchable going from a high scoring, big play offense in 15'-16' to the junk we saw this past year but realistically the easiest unit to bolster is the defense.   They are potentially very good on D because they play hard and sound fundamental football but they gotta get some Jimmy's and Joe's in the front 7 so they don't turn to crap in the dog days of late Oct/Nov again.    I don't really want to see a RB in the first 3 rounds but I think that would be a a pseudo-defensive selection for the style of football they want to play....... so it's probably more likely than a WR/TE or even OL pick in those rounds.

[Happy]

6 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

But yes, as the season unfolded and Dennison was reluctant to revert back to last year's running attack while still trying to fix the passing game, then McDermott should have been much more involved and forced Dennison to do what was proven to work.    McDermott shares the blame for that.    He can fix it by admitting it was the wrong hire and moving on to someone he could have more confidence in as an offensive football expert.

 

Yeah, the whole thing is perplexing.  I don't get what goes through coach's and coordinator's minds sometimes.  They should have seen in camp that Tyrod was never going to work in a west coast type offense and heavily modified the scheme to suit Tyrod, since he was the best QB we had on the roster.