The reasons why the Bills will not change O Coordinator in offseason - Per WGR on-air discussion

[NewEra]

I’d be shocked if he weren’t retained.  Not because I like him, but because we made the playoffs and did so with a not so good QB and no passing attack. 

 

 

Castillo on the other hand..... good riddance.  He’s awful, yet will probably be retained as well.

[dollars 2 donuts]

The Shady thing is ridiculous because, as opposed to QB, WR or even LT, I believe RB is one of the few positions where you don't have to groom a replacement.  If Shady is bad or is dropping off in 2018 or 2019, then you just draft a high RB that you like in 2019 or 2020.  

[Heavy Kevi]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

Discussion on WGR arctually points to some valid reasons why a new OC is unlikely this offseason.  The primary points are:

 

• The QB situation is a complete unknown.  There is no guarantee the Bills land a top FA or a top prospect in the draft
• No OC worth their salt is going to come to a team with the QB position that is that undetermined and cloudy
• The Bills can’t tip their hand on offensive and draft strategies to outside OC candidates.  They will not be able to say either way that they will aggressively pursue a QB either through FA or the draft. Even if they do, the Bills fate probably involves a willing partner in the situation.
•  The WR corps is a mess.  So not only does the OC need to fix the QB role he would have to rebuild the WR position
• Shady is getting old by NFL RB standards as are Incognito and Woods.  No guarantee that the ground game remains solid in Buffalo.  
• McDermott is not a high profile coach who will “lift” the career of an OC that has his sights on a HC job
• The Bills have talent gaps on both sides of the ball.  Which do they give priority to?  No OC will want to come in if the Bills state that their priority is to first address the gaps on the D side of the ball.

 

The more I think about the above the more it would seem that the Bills have a very weak hand when it comes to the idea of brining in a “known” entity at OC.  Maybe some “up and comer” takes a flier but even that seems unlikely given there are not a lot of tools in the toolbox to work with.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think if they make it clear they will get a QB, thus is no longer a problem. They don't have to tip their hand, but everyone knows they have cap room and/or draft picks for whatever they want to do. 

 

Also, how would the OC have to build a WR corps? That's the coaches job, and really Benjamin should be a fantastic start if it's a rookie. Big ol' hands target that competes for the ball, like a faster TE that can run good routes. 

 

That said, keeping Rico around would not surprise me in the least, though I would welcome a change. The year you get a new QB is a great time to make the switch.

[PolishDave]

13 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Yeah, the whole thing is perplexing.  I don't get what goes through coach's and coordinator's minds sometimes.  They should have seen in camp that Tyrod was never going to work in a west coast type offense and heavily modified the scheme to suit Tyrod, since he was the best QB we had on the roster.

 

Coming into this season I was hoping for the NFL version of backyard ball with Tyrod, McCoy and Watkins being the main offensive weapons.    I wanted to see Tyrod running outside the pocket repeatedly by design - getting the defense to choose between tackling him or covering Watkins/Shady - and then watching Tyrod destroy defenses in the process.

 

I think he has that in him - if he is partnered with the right coach - Anthony Lynn might be that guy - another year or two with him and who knows how it would have ended up.    

 

Instead we got the best backyard football QB being forced to play Tom Brady ball - and he failed.   No big surprise.   Although I did expect Tyrod to be a little better at it than he ended up being.

 

Enough is enough.   I'm done with the dual threat thing for a while. - It ran its course and predictably failed.    Give me the best offensive line in football and a decent pocket passer who likes to throw deep please.

 

Oh...And please, please give me an offensive coordinator who likes to have his QB throw deep regularly - early and often - even when winning a game.   I am done with the guy who wants to stretch defenses horizontally instead of vertically.

Edited January 9, 2018 by PolishDave

[BuffaloBill]

46 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I'm hoping Matthews stays. KB, Matthews, Jones, Thompson...also Clay, O'Leary. It's a solid group. KB is the type of WR that can take over a game. Just need a passer.

 

 

Yeah Mathews and Benjamin really did not get a chance to prove themselves this year.  The team still lacks a true #1 as it is a stretch to say either of those guys fits that role.  Not to mention they may not sign Mathews to a contract depending on what he may get as he hits FA market.  On top of this Zay Jones had a hugely productive college career that has not translated to the pros.  How much of this he owns vs how much the system or Tyrod’s play comes into the equation is left up to question.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Deonte Thompson was signed off the street in week 6 and started as many games as Matthews did. He was tied for most catches by a WR with Zay Jones, but had 23 fewer targets than Zay, and he had the most receiving yards of any of our WRs by 115 yards.

 

This is a guy who was cut by the Bears, who's biggest weakness going into the draft might just be WR

 

Deonte Thompson had a YPC  of 14.6 and 2 TD's.   As I said he did OK.  I do not think I said he was great.

 

As to the Bills picking up FA's  -  lets see how things unfold.   WRT to FA's street or otherwise.  In the following list "was let go by" means their former team didn't keep them for whatever reason. 

 

I look at these people and think ....  wow what a pickup.  Not they suck because they were let go.

 

Lorenzio Alexander - a 4 team cast off. 

Jerry Hughes was let go by the Colts

Micah Hyde was let go by the Packers

Jordan Poyer was let go by the Browns

Stephen Hauschka  was let go by the Seahawks

 

[PolishDave]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Yeah Mathews and Benjamin really did not get a chance to prove themselves this year.  The team still lacks a true #1 as it is a stretch to say either of those guys fits that role.  Not to mention they may not sign Mathews to a contract depending on what he may get as he hits FA market.  On top of this Zay Jones had a hugely productive college career that has not translated to the pros.  How much of this he owns vs how much the system or Tyrod’s play comes into the equation is left up to question.

 

 

 

If Zay Jones doesn't start balling, he is going to hold this team back for years.   You know this staff is going to keep playing him.   If he busts, he will be an albatross for some time.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, PolishDave said:

 

If Zay Jones doesn't start balling, he is going to hold this team back for years.   You know this staff is going to keep playing him.   If he busts, he will be an albatross for some time.

the average life span of an NFL player is still 3 years.  

 

If Zay keeps on the way he is he won't make it to the trade deadline in Oct 2018. 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

6 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Deonte Thompson had a YPC  of 14.6 and 2 TD's.   As I said he did OK.  I do not think I said he was great.

 

As to the Bills picking up FA's  -  lets see how things unfold.   WRT to FA's street or otherwise.  In the following list "was let go by" means their former team didn't keep them for whatever reason. 

 

I look at these people and think ....  wow what a pickup.  Not they suck because they were let go.

 

Lorenzio Alexander - a 4 team cast off. 

Jerry Hughes was let go by the Colts

Micah Hyde was let go by the Packers

Jordan Poyer was let go by the Browns

Stephen Hauschka  was let go by the Seahawks

You understand the difference between Free Agents, being Traded for, and being cut mid-season, right?

[Seanbillsfan2206]

1 hour ago, xRUSHx said:

Haha, a QB that fits Denns system?

 How about a real pocket QB not a RB pretending to be a QB, one that can audible, throw and can use the system given. A true QB that can be used with most OCs. That would be a great start IMO. This short bus Taylor made system will not help any OC out that's for sure.

Yes that pretty much breaks it down. Get that QB

[PolishDave]

5 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

the average life span of an NFL player is still 3 years.  

 

If Zay keeps on the way he is he won't make it to the trade deadline in Oct 2018. 

 

 

I have a feeling if he plays at his current level they will be tempted to keep him at least another year after next.   Maybe not though.   This year he wasn't any better than many off-the-street retread receivers that can be had for a dime a dozen.

 

He was supposed to be an impact player right away.   This is why draft picks should hold less value in people's minds than a proven player.

 

With luck, he flourishes in a new system with a better passer.

Edited January 9, 2018 by PolishDave

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

Sal .C,, the new Paul Hamilton, lots of noise (at 100mph), but never says anything.

[dave mcbride]

53 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Shady's ypc dropped nearly 1.5 yards.    He had 3-4 games this year where he just looked like he woke up with nothing.  He's turned into a consummate pro but if you don't think he's declined or can't at least see how that perception would be there then you aren't being impartial.    Realistically they need to cut his carries by about 100 to get his per touch production up and need to get another back in here who can give you high production.    I'm not talking about Tolbert matching his 4 ypc again either LOL.    

I fundamentally disagree with this. The first Dolphins game was a classic case. The Bills mixed it up on offense in the first half, and he had 8 carries for 46 yards. He finished with 20 for 50. It happened in game after game (think the Chiefs game too) because whenever the Bills got a lead, they turtled and slammed McCoy into 8-man fronts repeatedly.  And just think of the second Miami game, where he had three highlight-reel level broken tackles just to make it back to the LOS on one play. Moreover, as Gunner Bill noted, the outside zone scheme is a bad fit for a guy that likes to bounce it outside. The inside zone scheme forces him to stay inside, which is what he needs. The Bills run game was both badly designed and badly play-called, particularly in second halves of games. 

 

PS: versus Atlanta, he started out with 15 carries for 77 yards. Turtle mode happens in the fourth, and he ends up with 20-76. It happened a LOT. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by dave mcbride

[BillsfanAZ]

I am not a fan of conservative play calling unless it is warranted. Unfortunately I dont see Dennison going anywhere. Better QB play and more talent at WR would have yielded more offense. Only the coaches and players know for sure exactly what went wrong on the plays. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[JM57]

2 hours ago, ddaryl said:

Watching all 22 game tape shows how often our WR's were open and TT just couldn't deliver, or some of our TE's and WR's couldn't hold onto the ball.

 

Right now its all about the QB position and a upgrade to the O skill positions and much less about the OC job

Just because the receivers were open and not thrown to does not mean it is a dynamic offensive system, nor does it mean that the guy calling the plays is the best option. I'm sick and tired of watching boring, average or below average offense. Dennison could have 11 perennial Pro Bowlers on offense and it would still be a bland boring system

[PolishDave]

1 minute ago, JM57 said:

Just because the receivers were open and not thrown to does not mean it is a dynamic offensive system, nor does it mean that the guy calling the plays is the best option. I'm sick and tired of watching boring, average or below average offense. Dennison could have 11 perennial Pro Bowlers on offense and it would still be a bland boring system

 

Funny thing is I believe we were having these discussions back in week 2 and so many people on this board said we needed to give Dennison a chance and that it was too early to be saying he isn't good enough.

 

Turns out - he got the whole season (as he should have) and his biggest dumpster fire games of offensive production came towards the end of the season.

 

Little did we know that we were seeing Dennison's GOOD offense at the beginning of the season.  

 

I just don't think Dennison is NFL caliber offensive coordinator material.   Based on his history, he is only successful when an NFL hall of fame QB is running his offense.   Hit the road Jack.   And don't ya come back no more.

[boyst]

54 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

I did not bold and see nothing in my post that made that happen, sorry about that.

 

IMO keeping Tyrod is not helping anything. His contract is too big for his not good enough play, having our OC use two schemes for his QBs since Taylor needs the short bus scheme. He is not a mentor look how bad Peterman looked I am sure Taylor pushed his team mates to play horribly in LA to help keep Tyrod as the starter for the rest of the year. Keeping Tyrod would have our rookie in a hole the entire time because of fans and Tyrod friends on the team that will push him to be the starter. They need to move on If they want to get better at the position, use his money for other positions. If this staff wants a Mario W type of locker room cancer keeping him is the right choice IMO.

He is still friendly to the cap.  Keeping two rookies and their contract makes up for spending on him

 

As far as Taylor being what the fans want I see McDermott being a strong enough coach to nix that kind of issue. 

[PolishDave]

Just now, Boyst62 said:

He is still friendly to the cap.  Keeping two rookies and their contract makes up for spending on him

 

As far as Taylor being what the fans want I see McDermott being a strong enough coach to nix that kind of issue. 

 

Do you think there is any real possibility Tyrod stays and Dennison goes?   They can't possibly coexist on the same team again.  Can they?

 

Even if keeping Tyrod and ditching Dennison is a viable option, I don't see any way that happens with how poorly Tyrod played towards the end of this season.

[BobChalmers]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Actually last year we had a pretty good WR corps.  Dennison/McBeane blew it up.  Maybe for the best in the long run - time will tell - but the fact is what they brought in contributed way less than what they gave up.

 

Actually the "pretty good WR corps" was injured half the 2016 season.

5 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Do you think there is any real possibility Tyrod stays and Dennison goes?   They can't possibly coexist on the same team again.  Can they?

 

 

I just can't imagine Tyrod being retained after the way Chris Brown publicly called him out yesterday.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

5 minutes ago, BobChalmers said:

 

Actually the "pretty good WR corps" was injured half the 2016 season.

 

I just can't imagine Tyrod being retained after the way Chris Brown publicly called him out yesterday.

When did this happen?