ddaryl Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 50 minutes ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said: Probably a 2018 2nd and a 2019 3rd..... But Maybe ‘18&’19 2nd rd picks at worst. Honestly I think a 2nd and a 5th this year Smith could be had.... Alex Smith has value for sure. KC might try for a first and no one is gonna give a team a 1st for a 34 yr old QB. Our late 2nd and 5th could do it, or be super enticing. Unless there is a bidding war a late 2nd should do. Might be able to trade down one of ousr 2nds and gain a pick bck possibly IMO.. 2 - 2nds is definitely not going to happen IMO But a 34 year old QB is a such a dice roll.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: To continue to develop as an offense, especially if they keep Dennison, the Bills have to make a QB change. There's no question. That said, I really hate the idea of driving a QB change by what you can "sell to the fan base". Nix got a lot of things wrong, but when he said "if you make decisions based on the fans, you'll be sitting with them soon", he was right. I think you are being too strict with your philosophy here. I am not talking about abandoning a young player who is developing to please an ignorant impatient fan base. In Tyrod's case he is a place holder it is very obvious and he has been unable to develop beyond that. It is unreasonable I think to expect fans to pretend he is anything else and we would most of us know there is no chance for a really good season next year with him at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEN-CAL17 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, BadLandsMeanie said: I think so too but unless they watch him, they will go by his stats which have him as an above average QB game manager. Desperate fans will cling to hope,as we know all too well. I bet he lands somewhere Sad thing is he will land somewhere to mold a Rookie, a bridge as they are calling it here. And I just cringe at the thought of that. I’ll take Alex Smith Bradford etc if we are gonna play the bridge game just to ensure my guy gets the correct mentor ship,that alone is worth forking out some dough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 24 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Can someone dial up Videos of Tyrod's short comings so OP can see what we are dealing with? I think he knows. His point is that Smith is an improved, more advanced version of some of the same shortcomings. Listen to what he's saying. Listen carefully. "Two years ago we didn't have a WR catch a TD pass the whole season. Granted, we didn't have any good WR, but that's hard to do in a league set up to encourage passing". I live in MO and they televise a lot of KC here since the Rams left town. Smith has had a great year this year, in part because Kareem Hunt has had velcro hands, Tyreek Hill has developed as a young burner WR and Kelce is a huge target and typically very robust. I'm not saying Smith isn't a better QB than Tyrod right now, because he is, but you can see the shadow of Tyrod in him. He needs pieces around him. Who we got? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Did...did you not read the part about where he lost his WR1, 2, 3 and 4, and was pushed into a system that does not suit his talents? Because that perfectly explains why he regressed, yet we won more games. What exactly did he do with Sammy and Woods last season in the second half of games (and the season before)? Very little. The Turtle went into his shell over and over and over. Clay is still good, , Shady can still catch, O'Leary has been good, KB is good, Thompson turned out to be a good pickup. Stone hands Zay Jones and his drops matter but not all together. Before you say it - the departed were also absent due to injuries. Accept TT is gone and we can move onto the next huge question at QB. Hopefully a big improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: Would that "every week" include the week 9 Jets, week 10 Saints, and week 11 Chargers game? Because personally those games, it kind of looked to me like our D was "phoning it in" I've made the point before, but just what WR was Taylor supposed to throw >50 yards to? We had a scrap heap at WR this year, Benjamin gave us 6 hampered games and Zay "Stone hands" Jones can't be what they hoped for as a WR. Effectively you'll be paying $24.4M for the QB position next year on a 1 year rental of Smith. So effectively you are saying for about the same cost next year as TT would cost us, we can bet a better QB in Smith. I'm all in on that. Add a first round QB with time to develop as our possible future without wasting day one picks by trading up, upgrade our Oline with a day one draft choice, a Dline guy day one. Add a WR and use the rest of the picks on building up depth. Get a couple impact players in FA, hopefully a Poyer, Hyde type of player that won't break the cap, and we are moving forward. One more year later and another draft and we are finally a legitimate contender. Staying with TT next year is not moving forward, or getting closer to being a legitimate contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said: Sad thing is he will land somewhere to mold a Rookie, a bridge as they are calling it here. And I just cringe at the thought of that. I’ll take Alex Smith Bradford etc if we are gonna play the bridge game just to ensure my guy gets the correct mentor ship,that alone is worth forking out some dough. Yeah, God forbid a young QB develops Tyrod's habits for working out, preparation, and professionalism just like Tyrod learned them from Flacco. Vet QBs aren't teaching rookies throwing mechanics, that'd be the QB coach and OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Turtle Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) What is this obsession with spending draft assets and cap space on a QB that, at best, will get you a first round loss in the playoffs? Cousins? Smith? Are the Bills trying to win a Super Bowl or trying to be marginally better than the Taylor-led Bills. For once a Bills front office needs to man up and get a franchise QB. Once you have THAT guy start him. Use the money that would have been spent on losers like Smith or Cousins on building the team around the rookie. If you spend a 1st round pick on a QB, that QB should be able to start day one. If he's not ready, you wasted that pick. Edited January 9, 2018 by Perry Turtle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm not saying Smith isn't a better QB than Tyrod right now, because he is, but you can see the shadow of Tyrod in him. He needs pieces around him. Who we got? Bingo. He has the 2nd best TE in the league and perhaps the best deep threat in the league. What do we have? Bucky Brooks always talks about QBs as trucks or trailers. Either your QB is a truck (Brady, Rodgers, etc) and can pull everything behind him, or he's a trailer and he needs to be pulled by a truck. There are no trucks available to us, either Tyrod, Smith, Peterman, Bradford or a rookie, it's all the same. We need a better truck if we want to pull one of these trailers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: I think you are being too strict with your philosophy here. I am not talking about abandoning a young player who is developing to please an ignorant impatient fan base. In Tyrod's case he is a place holder it is very obvious and he has been unable to develop beyond that. It is unreasonable I think to expect fans to pretend he is anything else and we would most of us know there is no chance for a really good season next year with him at QB. My point is that the decision should be driven by what is best for the team and its development, not by what they expect fans to pretend. From a football business sense, there would be dumber decisions than to throw all our draft capital at the very best young QB we can draft (if there's someone they like), keep Tyrod on the roster as a backup and fallback, maybe bring in a low price FA to compete as backup and trade Tyrod if there's a preseason injury, and put salary cap money into upgrading WR and TE. I think if the team brings in Smith without a significant upgrade at WR (and don't bet the rent on Benjamin to come back from the knee injury), we are going to be disappointed at what we see. What I personally want is for the team to go full-bore after signing Cousins. I think he is the deal and it could be similar to N'Orleans getting Brees for the right team. Because he would be a FA signing, we could structure his contract to manage Taylor's dead cap hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: I think there are so many teams desperate for an established QB, that Smith will return more than a 4th. I could see a team giving up a 2nd. You are likely correct, but I don't think it should be us. I don't think Smith with this team puts us over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think he knows. His point is that Smith is an improved, more advanced version of some of the same shortcomings. Listen to what he's saying. Listen carefully. "Two years ago we didn't have a WR catch a TD pass the whole season. Granted, we didn't have any good WR, but that's hard to do in a league set up to encourage passing". I live in MO and they televise a lot of KC here since the Rams left town. Smith has had a great year this year, in part because Kareem Hunt has had velcro hands, Tyreek Hill has developed as a young burner WR and Kelce is a huge target and typically very robust. I'm not saying Smith isn't a better QB than Tyrod right now, because he is, but you can see the shadow of Tyrod in him. He needs pieces around him. Who we got? You are totally ignoring what Smith can do at the LOS and the impact it has on the end result of a game. The most Tyrod has done in his time here is run an RPO. https://www.arrowheadpride.com/platform/amp/2015/7/10/8920501/kansas-city-chiefs-importance-packaged-plays-alex-smith The talk about Arians should hit home, he didn't want any part of college QBs who did nothing at the LOS in college. Edited January 9, 2018 by Commonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, simpleman said: So effectively you are saying for about the same cost next year as TT would cost us, we can bet a better QB in Smith. I'm all in on that. Add a first round QB with time to develop as our possible future without wasting day one picks by trading up, upgrade our Oline with a day one draft choice, a Dline guy day one. Add a WR and use the rest of the picks on building up depth. Get a couple impact players in FA, hopefully a Poyer, Hyde type of player that won't break the cap, and we are moving forward. One more year later and another draft and we are finally a legitimate contender. Staying with TT next year is not moving forward, or getting closer to being a legitimate contender. No, I'm saying that we can rent Smith for 1 year for 50% more than TT would cost us (Smith salary plus TT dead cap), and trading for him will likely cost us draft capital and give us a poor return unless we significantly upgrade at WR. How'd last year's 2nd round pick work out? 1 minute ago, H2o said: You are likely correct, but I don't think it should be us. I don't think Smith with this team puts us over the top. I agree with you. He's a better QB than Taylor if you give him pieces to work with. He's not the guy who can elevate a "goon squad" of WR. 2 minutes ago, Commonsense said: You are totally ignoring what Smith can do at the LOS and the impact it has on the end result of a game. The most Tyrod has done in his time here is run an RPO. https://www.arrowheadpride.com/platform/amp/2015/7/10/8920501/kansas-city-chiefs-importance-packaged-plays-alex-smith I'm not actually. Are you actually reading what I've written? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: ...I know you are being sarcastic, I just don't know what about. 1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: It's a direct quote from the guy you're trying to have a conversation with... OK its been a full day and you still can't see I was trolling !!!!! Taylor sucked Sunday. 44.2 rating, 17/37 (that puts him at 3 wins 14 losses with 30 or more passes), 0 TD and 1 INT! Dropped balls.... How many? 6 or 7? Hell I'll even give you 10. That leaves 20 uncatchable passes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: No, I'm saying that we can rent Smith for 1 year for 50% more than TT would cost us (Smith salary plus TT dead cap), and trading for him will likely cost us draft capital and give us a poor return unless we significantly upgrade at WR. How'd last year's 2nd round pick work out? I agree with you. He's a better QB than Taylor if you give him pieces to work with. He's not the guy who can elevate a "goon squad" of WR. I'm not actually. Are you actually reading what I've written? You just said Smith has a shadow of Taylor, how they operate at the LOS is the biggest difference between the two guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: Smith is obviously not a long term answer but if we draft a QB in the first this year, Smith at least allows you to remain competitive in the playoff race and not taking a step back with a rookie. He's a better stop gap than Taylor IMO. ding ding ding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I read everything you wrote. You are talking about the Albert Wilsons of the world actually having an impact on the success or failure of a QB. He is as JAG as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You do realize that from 3 years of film, I could pull some similar moments on TT. You do realize that, right? Really? Please go find me game winning touchdown drives in Divisional playoff games from Tyrod. I'll make it easier, just go find me playoff touchdowns from Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: OK its been a full day and you still can't see I was trolling !!!!! Taylor sucked Sunday. 44.2 rating, 17/37 (that puts him at 3 wins 14 losses with 30 or more passes), 0 TD and 1 INT! Dropped balls.... How many? 6 or 7? Hell I'll even give you 10. That leaves 20 uncatchable passes! Trolling is generally entertaining. Yesterday's and today's posts were just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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