twoandfourteen Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, dneveu said: http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Cant-Miss-Play-Bills-QB-Tyrod-Taylor-rolls-out-throws-a-44-yard-bomb-to-TE-Charles-Clay/cb422d41-dab9-45b2-9619-7fac5b44995b There's one. Any others? He's been a starting QB for 43 games in the NFL, surely there are tons big-time throws. We'll wait.
plenzmd1 Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, hemma said: I wonder how many of you have read all of Tony's books? I mean read, not just skim. Anyone? Kornheiser, Tony (1983). The Baby Chase. New York: Atheneum. pp. 212 pages. ISBN 0-689-11354-4. Kornheiser, Tony (1995). Pumping Irony: Working Out the Angst of a Lifetime. New York: Times Books. ISBN 0-8129-2474-6. Kornheiser, Tony (1997). Bald as I Wanna Be. New York: Villard. pp. 304 pages. ISBN 0-375-50037-5. Kornheiser, Tony (2002). I’m Back for More Cash: a Tony Kornheiser collection (Because You Can’t Take Two Hundred Newspapers into the Bathroom). New York: Villard. pp. 379 pages. ISBN 0-375-50754-X. Hmm, I am a huge TK fan, did not know of that 83 book, will have to check it out. I have been reading/listening to TK going on 30 years now, guys been part of my daily routine for a long long time. Love him...he is not always accurate with his sports take outside of the DC teams, but entertaining as hell.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: There's one. Any others? He's been a starting QB for 43 games in the NFL, surely there are tons big-time throws. We'll wait. I'm sure there are many - I'm at work so I'm not going to go down that road. Why are people on here so hostile when I say that he's made plays? It's possible for someone to make plays, and also not be a good fit or good starting QB. Edited January 9, 2018 by dneveu
Dr. Who Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Hmm, I am a huge TK fan, did not know of that 83 book, will have to check it out. I have been reading/listening to TK going on 30 years now, guys been part of my daily routine for a long long time. Love him...he is not always accurate with his sports take outside of the DC teams, but entertaining as hell. I only watch him on PTI, but I think he's amusing.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: There was certainly a contingent that thought TT wasnt the right fit. But they were quickly silenced by the CoT who believed Roman and Lynn held back TT and he would be "unleashed" with Rico to average 175 passing yards per game. Well I don't know about "unleashed". But there were experts who questioned the design of the passing game under Roman (Trent Dilfer and I think Brian Billick for two) and at least in theory, better passing design and coaching could have helped Taylor take a step. Even in preseason when it was clear Taylor was struggling in Rico's system, the explanation from OBD was that they were deliberately asking Taylor to do things that he wasn't comfortable with to develop him, and the regular season would be different. I confess to taking a gulp of that Kool-aid, but then the season started and it was evident that 1) we had significantly downgraded, not to say decimated, our WR corps 2) Dennison had no intention of tailoring his play calling towards Taylor's strengths. So the Kool-aid got barfed up right quickly. I'm sometimes not apt to recognize what people pass off as "trolling" or "sarcasm": you do know that Taylor averaged >200 ypg in 2015 and 2016 and had no double-digit passing games eg, his performance was significantly better? 6 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: There's one. Any others? He's been a starting QB for 43 games in the NFL, surely there are tons big-time throws. We'll wait. Oh, for Toast's sake, you can go to Youtube and type "Tyrod Taylor TD" or "Tyrod Taylor Highlights" with the best of us. Cut it out. 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 3 wins,14 losses when passing more than 30 times 3 games with 3 points in 16 games 3 games with a rating under 45 That spells top notch backup to me
grb Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: Worst ever in history is hyperbole or non-sense, but I still think Tyrod is a mediocre starter on a really good day and generally, yes, a pretty good backup. Bottom third of NFL qbs are starters because there aren't 32 starter quality qbs in the NFL. They should all be backups if it weren't for the dearth of quality at the position. Three points : "Worst ever in history" isn't hyperbole or nonsense; it's brain-dead imbecilic feces-for-brains idiocy (which is a bit worst). "Taylor is only a back-up" is hyperbole or nonsense (which is still bad) Saying starters aren't starters because they're not all Aaron Rodgers (merely one of the top 33 players on the planet) just ain't good logic IMO. 1
BringBackOrton Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well I don't know about "unleashed". But there were experts who questioned the design of the passing game under Roman (Trent Dilfer and I think Brian Billick for two) and at least in theory, better passing design and coaching could have helped Taylor take a step. Even in preseason when it was clear Taylor was struggling in Rico's system, the explanation from OBD was that they were deliberately asking Taylor to do things that he wasn't comfortable with to develop him, and the regular season would be different. I confess to taking a gulp of that Kool-aid, but then the season started and it was evident that 1) we had significantly downgraded, not to say decimated, our WR corps 2) Dennison had no intention of tailoring his play calling towards Taylor's strengths. So the Kool-aid got barfed up right quickly. I'm sometimes not apt to recognize what people pass off as "trolling" or "sarcasm": you do know that Taylor averaged >200 ypg in 2015 and 2016 and had no double-digit passing games eg, his performance was significantly better? Oh, for Toast's sake, you can go to Youtube and type "Tyrod Taylor TD" or "Tyrod Taylor Highlights" with the best of us. Cut it out. Yes, Taylor was better in 2015/2016. And he had his critics still. Those critics were told it was Roman/Lynn's and the WR's faults. Roman was shitcanned. Taylor got a new OC, one that was going to be way better for Taylor. Taylor got worse. His critics were told it was Rico's and the WR's faults Do you see a pattern here? 1
Dr. Who Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, grb said: Three points : "Worst ever in history" isn't hyperbole or nonsense; it's brain-dead imbecilic feces-for-brains idiocy (which is a bit worst). "Taylor is only a back-up" is hyperbole or nonsense (which is still bad) Saying starters aren't starters because they're not all Aaron Rodgers (merely one of the top 33 players on the planet) just ain't good logic IMO. I don't see the logical inference of the Aaron Rodgers point. Aaron Rodgers is a top three franchise qb. There's a wide gulf between Aaron Rodgers and, say, Andy Dalton. Dalton is a modestly talented qb, but I think legitimately a starter. Surely the concept here is not ridiculously abstruse?
Heavy Kevi Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Hmm, I am a huge TK fan, did not know of that 83 book, will have to check it out. I have been reading/listening to TK going on 30 years now, guys been part of my daily routine for a long long time. Love him...he is not always accurate with his sports take outside of the DC teams, but entertaining as hell. Well, you say TK, and I think Tsuyoshi Kosaka... Inventor of the "TK guard", aka "butterfly guard" or "evelator"... Now I'm going to spend the week watching old UFC and Pride fights. Thanks a ton. Anyway, carry on.
Jay_Fixit Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, dneveu said: http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Cant-Miss-Play-Bills-QB-Tyrod-Taylor-rolls-out-throws-a-44-yard-b omb-to-TE-Charles-Clay/cb422d41-dab9-45b2-9619-7fac5b44995b Hahaha. Most QB’s can make that throw. QB avoids rush, gently steps to his right and throws isn’t really a unique throw. But yes, his athleticism allows him to throw the football when he’d probably be dead to rights. Edited January 9, 2018 by Jay_Fixit
twoandfourteen Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 21 minutes ago, dneveu said: I'm sure there are many - I'm at work so I'm not going to go down that road. Why are people on here so hostile when I say that he's made plays? It's possible for someone to make plays, and also not be a good fit or good starting QB. It was an honest question. No hostility. I can't think of any big plays from this year, or any other really eye-popping throws from any other year aside from the bomb to Harvin against the Colts and the Sammy game against the Chiefs. 21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Oh, for Toast's sake, you can go to Youtube and type "Tyrod Taylor TD" or "Tyrod Taylor Highlights" with the best of us. Cut it out. But the justification for my question was the "only throws that he and Russell Wilson" can make part. Surely those plays would immediately come to mind, no? What he was talking about is a far different thing than hitting a wide open Nick O'leary for 6 against the packed-it-in Dolphins.
grb Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: I don't see the logical inference of the Aaron Rodgers point. Aaron Rodgers is a top three franchise qb. There's a wide gulf between Aaron Rodgers and, say, Andy Dalton. Dalton is a modestly talented qb, but I think legitimately a starter. Surely the concept here is not ridiculously abstruse? OK : I'll bite : Exactly how many of the best 32 quarterbacks playing football somehow don't qualify to be called "starters" ? Is it Taylor alone, or are there five more, ten more, a score more?
Rob's House Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 This thread is embarrassing. Since when did hyperbole become a cardinal sin? Yes, the guy made a slightly exaggerated off-hand comment to accentuate his clear point that if you strip away his superior athletic ability you're left with a really really bad NFL QB. So what? Is anyone honestly disputing that point? If you're ripping Tony Kornholer and YOU look like the jackass, you're doing something horribly wrong. Also, hyper-literal people rarely get laid. You should work on that.
grb Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: It was an honest question. No hostility. I can't think of any big plays from this year, or any other really eye-popping throws from any other year aside from the bomb to Harvin against the Colts and the Sammy game against the Chiefs. No, it's not an "honest question". It's either blind hate or pure trolling. Here's an honest question : If you can't find any exceptional plays from Taylor over the last three seasons, what would you do when asked about exceptional plays by other quarterbacks? I'll supply the answer : You'd either find none - which would be stupid - or you'd suddenly start seeing "exception" in others which you refused to see in Taylor - which would be hypocrisy. So : Stupidity or hypocrisy? (Another question, but at least it's multiple choice)
twoandfourteen Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 43 minutes ago, grb said: Two Points : You want absurd? The obsession of some people insisting Taylor is nothing more than a "back-up". You see this over and over, and it's never anything more than stupid. Newsflash : Taylor's floor is still high up into the bottom third of quarterbacks. That's the worst case. If he has any choice in the matter, he'll go where he can start. Also : No one will trade for him to be a back-up. Ergo : Taylor will start, because he'll be a starting option for multiple teams. The "logic" for this "back-up" meme seems to be : "I don't like Taylor therefore he must be the 33rd worst quarterback in the league". That ain't very convincing logic. This one never gets old : The "worst passer" Kornheiser has ever seen did this the 15 games (over two seasons) he had Woods and Watkins on the field : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 Ints Gosh : Think what Taylor would have accomplished if he wasn't the worst ever in all of history....... Kinda boggles the mind, doesn't it? He is absolutely a backup quality player, nothing more. Take a look here if you want some numbers: Sure looks like a game-managing backup to me. He is somewhere in the 35-30 range as far as NFL QBs are concerned, but I like my QBs to actually be able to throw for yards and TDs so I'd put him closer to 35-38. But at this level, I can see the value in having a backup who won't throw INTs, so I can see why most would slot him at 34 or 35. There is absolutely no justification or evidence that puts him in the top 15 or even top 25 of players at the position. None.
Rob's House Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, grb said: OK : I'll bite : Exactly how many of the best 32 quarterbacks playing football somehow don't qualify to be called "starters" ? Is it Taylor alone, or are there five more, ten more, a score more? Up until a few weeks ago Jimmy Garoffalo was one.
twoandfourteen Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, grb said: No, it's not an "honest question". It's either blind hate or pure trolling. Here's an honest question : If you can't find any exceptional plays from Taylor over the last three seasons, what would you do when asked about exceptional plays by other quarterbacks? I'll supply the answer : You'd either find none - which would be stupid - or you'd suddenly start seeing "exception" in others which you refused to see in Taylor - which would be hypocrisy. So : Stupidity or hypocrisy? (Another question, but at least it's multiple choice) Brees and Newton sure filled up the highlights in one day yesterday. Dalton hit one of the biggest passes in Bills history just last week. Those are the ones that immediately came to mind before I finished even reading your post. Taylor can't make any of those plays. I wish he could, because I'd like to have him as the face of the franchise. But he's been put in a position he doesn't have the skill for, and is better suited as a quality #2. Edited January 9, 2018 by twoandfourteen
Dr. Who Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, grb said: OK : I'll bite : Exactly how many of the best 32 quarterbacks playing football somehow don't qualify to be called "starters" ? Is it Taylor alone, or are there five more, ten more, a score more? Some young qbs are question marks. Is Kizer going to turn into a starter quality qb? I dunno. Probably not, but maybe. Carr and Mariotta regressed this year, for whatever reason, but I wouldn't say they're not starters. I'm starting to wonder about Mariotta, however. Some teams actually were forced to start backups because of injury (Colts/Texans.) The Niners before the Garoppolo trade did not have a starter quality qb. I don't think Bortles is a good qb, but you could argue. Jets, Broncos, Cardinals don't have starter quality qbs. Trubisky did not play like a starter, but he's still young so he might improve to justify his draft status. Taylor is below a Dalton or a Tannehill, who I think are marginal starters, but better than backup. Cutler is probably done and not very good. Taylor is below Dalton and in the ballpark of Jets and Broncos qbs, though Josh McCown sees the field better and is a more reliable passer. (I never implied there were twenty backups starting. You mentioned bottom third of the league, did you not? Anyway, this year, Taylor is in the bottom nine, imo.)
grb Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: ...... so I'd put him closer to 35-38. So when Taylor starts next year, it will be because at least three to six NFL general managers (with their coaches) lack your intellectual acumen? Edited January 9, 2018 by grb
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