Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: When you take a team that went to the playoff and cut 49 players and keep 22, that is just ridiculous and can't be taken very seriously. Stop feeding the trolls. TSW has been inundated with this crap lately. So dull.
Buffalo03 Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 I would not let Clay go. He is a competent QB away from being a top 10 tight end
BillsFan692 Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 Trading ZayJones is ridiculous. First of all we traded up for him but more importantly it was only his rookie season! Honestly that is laughable I would keep clay and zay Benjamin and McCoy and id try to get a stud in free agency wr, I hope we go for cousins. I want Alex Smith like I want herpes.
WMDman Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 People need to be patient with Zay...look at Agholor in Philadelphia
LABILLBACKER Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 Let's start with TT Ducasse Tolbert DiMarco You guys can fight over the 2nd-3rd string guys. 12 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said: Trading ZayJones is ridiculous. First of all we traded up for him but more importantly it was only his rookie season! Honestly that is laughable I would keep clay and zay Benjamin and McCoy and id try to get a stud in free agency wr, I hope we go for cousins. I want Alex Smith like I want herpes. Cousins is not worth a penny over 25, he'll want 34. Forget it. Rent Alex Smith for a year while we develop Allen, Mayfield or Rudolph....keep Peterman as #3 insurance.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Let's start with TT Ducasse Tolbert DiMarco You guys can fight over the 2nd-3rd string guys. TT is gone. Ducasse stays. They have him on the cheap until 2020. Tolbert is gone, hopefully. DiMarco I’d release. 1.5 mill dead cap figure, but I think we can do better. He’s been underwhelming.
Bubba Gump Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 Thank God this pillow biter isn't running the Bills. He would make a 17 year drought seem like a week. SMH
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Badthingsman said: Here is the current roster including the injured and practice squad. A couple of tough decisions, but not many. I cleaned the clock pretty good so will need to grab quite a few special teams players. Name Status Alexander, Lorenzo Keep Anderson, Colt Let Go Benjamin, Kelvin Keep Borders, Breon Let Go Bray, Quan Let Go Brown, Preston Keep Butler, Jeremy Let Go Cadet, Travaris Let Go Capi, Cap Let Go Carter, Cory Let Go Clay, Charles Let Go Croom, Jason Let Go Davis, Ryan Keep Dawkins, Dion Keep DiMarco, Patrick Let Go Ducasse, Vladimir Keep Dupre, Malachi Let Go Ferguson, Reid Let Go Gaines, E.J. Keep Glenn, Cordy Let Go Green, Aaron Let Go Groy, Ryan Keep Hatley, Rickey Let Go Hauschka, Stephen Keep Henderson, Seantrel Let Go Holmes, Andre Let Go Hughes, Jerry Keep Humber, Ramon Let Go Hyde, Micah Keep Incognito, Richie Keep James, Josh Let Go Johnson, Leonard Let Go Jones, Taiwan Let Go Jones, Zay Let Go Lacey, Deon Let Go Lawson, Shaq Keep Lee, Khari Let Go Lewis, Marquavius Let Go Marlowe, Dean Let Go Matthews, Jordan Let Go McCoy, LeSean Keep McDermott, Conor Let Go Milano, Matt Keep Miller, John Let Go Mills, Jordan Keep Murphy, Marcus Let Go O'Leary, Nick Keep Peterman, Nathan Let Go Pitts, Lafayette Let Go Poyer, Jordan Keep Redmond, Adam Let Go Reilly, Brandon Let Go Schmidt, Colton Let Go Tate, Brandon Let Go Taylor, Tyrod Let Go Thomas, Logan Let Go Thomas, Shamarko Let Go Thompson, Deonte Let Go Thornton, Cedric Let Go Tolbert, Mike Let Go Towbridge, Keith Let Go Vallejo, Tanner Let Go Washington, Adolphus Keep Webb, Joe Let Go Wesley, De'Ondre Let Go White, Tre'Davious Keep Williams, Kyle Let Go Wood, Eric Keep Woodson-Luster, Xavier Let Go Wright, Shareece Let Go Yarbrough, Eddie Keep Your approach seems to be to get rid of everyone you haven't heard of. But on a well-run team, it's those unheralded depth guys, properly developed, who become next year or the year after starters and keep the salary cap in balance. In particular, a lot of these are guys Beane and McDermott brought in, so if they're all worthless, we're in deep deep doodoo. Getting rid of Colton Schmidt, who was arguably our MVP as punter at times, and Reid Ferguson, who has done a capable job as our LS and is signed to an entirely reasonable contract through 2018, is particularly puzzling. 7 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Why are we only keeping 22 members of a playoff roster and letting go of 31, several of which are under contract and would actually cost us money to cut? Indeed, LOL! Especially let's cut a 2nd round rookie because he had a bad year, LOL. Cutting Zay Jones would cost us $3M and save us -$1.5M while keeping him is $770k salary. Keep! As a purely practical matter, the Bills have $38M in salary cap right now. Cutting Charles Clay (leading our passing yards btw), Cordy Glenn, Tyrod Taylor, Patrick Dimarco, and Andre Holmes would generate $30M of dead cap (accelerated bonuses or guaranteed money) while saving $15.4M. Then there are a number of guys labeled "Keep" who must be resigned - Preston Brown, EJ Gaines - and a bunch of guys to replace on DL, OL, LB, WR who can't all be rookies. I don't think we're going to generate $33M dead cap while saving only $13M, resign or sign replacements, sign our rookies, etc etc. Clay in particular makes no sense to cut this year - he's produced, and he generates $0 savings and $9 M cap hit. Cordy Glenn and Tyrod Taylor are the most likely veteran cuts from a cap perspective. As a constructive suggestion, BadThingsMan, you might want to pull aside the 3 ST "must haves" (K, P, LS). Then separate your list into free agents (who cost us nothing to walk, but must be resigned if kept) and players under contract (who have a dead money hit from amortized bonuses and a savings from salary). Edited January 9, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
folz Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 Good topic to start the offseason OP, but you do have to at least think about who is under contract, who's a FA, etc. The following list isn't exhaustive because there are a lot of role players, depth players, and young guys that I just don't know enough about, and I'm not looking much at salary cap/money, but at least it takes into account FAs, etc. and may be a better jumping off point for discussion: Unrestricted Free Agents Kyle Williams DT If he wants back in, I'm all for it, would probably take a team friendly deal Jordan Matthews WR If he doesn't cost too much, I say bring him back (2nd best WR on the team currently) Shareece Wright CB Let go Brandon Tate WR Let go Mike Tolbert RB Let go Ramon Humber LB Could be back if contract is reasonable as depth, but won't overpay as LB will be addressed in offseason Joe Webb QB Let go Leonard Johnson CB Bring him back Cedric Thornton DT Let go Taiwan Jones RB Let go Shamarko Thomas S Let go Travaris Cadet RB Let go Deonte Thompson WR Let go Preston Brown LB Let go E.J. Gaines CB Sign him Seantrell Henderson OT Let go Restricted Free Agents Logan Thomas TE Tender Jeremy Butler WR No Tender Nick O'Leary TE Tender 2nd Year Players (Won't give up on 2017 draftees yet) Tre White CB Keep Zay Jones WR Keep Dion Dawkins OT Keep Matt Milano LB Keep Nathan Peterman QB Keep Tanner Vallejo LB Keep Also Under Contract---(ps) denotes player currently on the practice squad ???? don't know enough about the player...could stay or go depending on how the coaches feel about them, most will probably be here through spring at least Alexander, Lorenzo LB Keep Anderson, Colt S Let Go (too many injuries) Benjamin, Kelvin WR Keep Borders, Breon CB ???? Bray, Quan WR (ps) ???? Capi, Cap DE Keep Carter, Cory P (ps) Let go Clay, Charles TE Keep Croom, Jason TE (ps) ???? Davis, Ryan DE Keep DiMarco, Patrick FB Keep Ducasse, Vladimir OG Could keep (as backup only-upgrade needed) Dupre, Malachi WR ???? Ferguson, Reid LS Keep Glenn, Cordy OT Let Go (if it helps cap and/or coaches are sold on Dion at LT rather than RT) Green, Aaron RB (ps) ???? Groy, Ryan C/OG Keep Hatley, Rickey DT ???? Hauschka, Stephen K Keep Holmes, Andre WR Let Go Hughes, Jerry DE Keep Hyde, Micah S Keep Incognito, Richie OG Keep James, Josh OT (ps) ???? Lacey, Deon LB ???? Lawson, Shaq DE Keep Lee, Khari TE ???? Lewis, Marquavius DE (ps) ???? Marlowe, Dean S (ps) ???? McCoy, LeSean RB Keep McDermott, Conor OT Keep Miller, John OG Let Go (Is he really worse than Ducasse?) Mills, Jordan OT Keep (swing tackle...hopefully RT is upgraded) Murphy, Marcus RB Keep (at least through the spring to see what he's got) Pitts, Lafayette CB Let Go Poyer, Jordan S Keep Redmond, Adam C (ps) ???? Reilly, Brandon WR Keep Schmidt, Colton P Keep Taylor, Tyrod QB Let Go Towbridge, Keith TE ???? Washington, Adolphus DT Keep Wesley, De'Ondre OT (ps) ???? Wood, Eric C Keep Woodson-Luster, Xavier LB (ps) ???? Yarbrough, Eddie DE Keep
MJS Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 Wow, I tried to go through your list, but you let go WAY too many people. Zay Jones? He is a rookie! You have to bring guys back until you have a viable replacement. You can't just clean house again. We did that in 2017, pretty much.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 Im not sure there are enough catholic free agents and or former panthers to back fill that many cuts. 5 hours ago, WMDman said: People need to be patient with Zay...look at Agholor in Philadelphia He can be a very good WR in this league. Just have to fix the hands/head issue this off season....
Irv Posted January 9, 2018 Author Posted January 9, 2018 5 hours ago, folz said: Good topic to start the offseason OP, but you do have to at least think about who is under contract, who's a FA, etc. The following list isn't exhaustive because there are a lot of role players, depth players, and young guys that I just don't know enough about, and I'm not looking much at salary cap/money, but at least it takes into account FAs, etc. and may be a better jumping off point for discussion: Unrestricted Free Agents Kyle Williams DT If he wants back in, I'm all for it, would probably take a team friendly deal Jordan Matthews WR If he doesn't cost too much, I say bring him back (2nd best WR on the team currently) Shareece Wright CB Let go Brandon Tate WR Let go Mike Tolbert RB Let go Ramon Humber LB Could be back if contract is reasonable as depth, but won't overpay as LB will be addressed in offseason Joe Webb QB Let go Leonard Johnson CB Bring him back Cedric Thornton DT Let go Taiwan Jones RB Let go Shamarko Thomas S Let go Travaris Cadet RB Let go Deonte Thompson WR Let go Preston Brown LB Let go E.J. Gaines CB Sign him Seantrell Henderson OT Let go Restricted Free Agents Logan Thomas TE Tender Jeremy Butler WR No Tender Nick O'Leary TE Tender 2nd Year Players (Won't give up on 2017 draftees yet) Tre White CB Keep Zay Jones WR Keep Dion Dawkins OT Keep Matt Milano LB Keep Nathan Peterman QB Keep Tanner Vallejo LB Keep Also Under Contract---(ps) denotes player currently on the practice squad ???? don't know enough about the player...could stay or go depending on how the coaches feel about them, most will probably be here through spring at least Alexander, Lorenzo LB Keep Anderson, Colt S Let Go (too many injuries) Benjamin, Kelvin WR Keep Borders, Breon CB ???? Bray, Quan WR (ps) ???? Capi, Cap DE Keep Carter, Cory P (ps) Let go Clay, Charles TE Keep Croom, Jason TE (ps) ???? Davis, Ryan DE Keep DiMarco, Patrick FB Keep Ducasse, Vladimir OG Could keep (as backup only-upgrade needed) Dupre, Malachi WR ???? Ferguson, Reid LS Keep Glenn, Cordy OT Let Go (if it helps cap and/or coaches are sold on Dion at LT rather than RT) Green, Aaron RB (ps) ???? Groy, Ryan C/OG Keep Hatley, Rickey DT ???? Hauschka, Stephen K Keep Holmes, Andre WR Let Go Hughes, Jerry DE Keep Hyde, Micah S Keep Incognito, Richie OG Keep James, Josh OT (ps) ???? Lacey, Deon LB ???? Lawson, Shaq DE Keep Lee, Khari TE ???? Lewis, Marquavius DE (ps) ???? Marlowe, Dean S (ps) ???? McCoy, LeSean RB Keep McDermott, Conor OT Keep Miller, John OG Let Go (Is he really worse than Ducasse?) Mills, Jordan OT Keep (swing tackle...hopefully RT is upgraded) Murphy, Marcus RB Keep (at least through the spring to see what he's got) Pitts, Lafayette CB Let Go Poyer, Jordan S Keep Redmond, Adam C (ps) ???? Reilly, Brandon WR Keep Schmidt, Colton P Keep Taylor, Tyrod QB Let Go Towbridge, Keith TE ???? Washington, Adolphus DT Keep Wesley, De'Ondre OT (ps) ???? Wood, Eric C Keep Woodson-Luster, Xavier LB (ps) ???? Yarbrough, Eddie DE Keep Finally someone who has an original thought! Zay Jones is not the answer. He could not get open. The handful of times he did get open he turned into Roberto Duran. Move on. Schmidt can go. Clay needs to go. Injured and over paid. Logan Thomas? C'mon. So far my list stays solid. 12 hours ago, yungmack said: I know this will never happen -- too many players to be replaced, cap and contract money difficulties, etc. -- but a wholesale house cleaning is very attractive and might do a world of good. Bold to cut Clay, Matthews, Thompson and Zay but I agree. I'd also send Benjamin on his way. If Glenn is healthy I keep him. Same for Henderson. If Kyle wants to play another year, I keep him, largely because it's too big a "lift" to work in two brand new starting DTs. I think you make a rational (and unpopular with a certain segment around here) decision to keep Brown, Lawson and Washington. But the one bit of "crazy" that I don't understand is cutting Schmidt. Can you explain how you arrived at that choice? Nice piece of analysis all in all. Thank you for the kind words. Punters are replaceable. It's a toss up between Dennison and Schmidt if you had to pinpoint who lost the game for us on Sunday.
Royale with Cheese Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Badthingsman said: Finally someone who has an original thought! Zay Jones is not the answer. He could not get open. The handful of times he did get open he turned into Roberto Duran. Move on. Schmidt can go. Clay needs to go. Injured and over paid. Logan Thomas? C'mon. So far my list stays solid. Thank you for the kind words. Punters are replaceable. It's a toss up between Dennison and Schmidt if you had to pinpoint who lost the game for us on Sunday. You are blaming Schmidt for our loss when we scored 3 points? You're not serious are you?
Irv Posted January 9, 2018 Author Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: You are blaming Schmidt for our loss when we scored 3 points? You're not serious are you? I just did.
Royale with Cheese Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Badthingsman said: I just did. It's pretty bizarre. One punt was the biggest difference in the game....that's pretty amazing.
Irv Posted January 9, 2018 Author Posted January 9, 2018 51 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: It's pretty bizarre. One punt was the biggest difference in the game....that's pretty amazing. I know I agree. It was a turning point.
Royale with Cheese Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Badthingsman said: I know I agree. It was a turning point. You know I wasn't agree with you. We're you expecting to win the game 3-0 or something?
Irv Posted January 9, 2018 Author Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: You know I wasn't agree with you. We're you expecting to win the game 3-0 or something? Oh. My bad. I thought we were agreeing on how that punt hurt us so badly. Take away the awful punt and run the ball on first and goal from the 1 and we win. So I guess we agree the punt plus the horrible play calling contributed equally to the loss. 17 hours ago, Woodman19 said: So you are going to bring in 30 new players in a single offseason? Yes. They did 38 last year including in-season trades and moves. Edited January 9, 2018 by Badthingsman
Royale with Cheese Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Badthingsman said: Oh. My bad. I thought we were agreeing on how that punt hurt us so badly. Take away the awful punt and run the ball on first and goal from the 1 and we win. So I guess we agree the punt plus the horrible play calling contributed equally to the loss. Well then blame Taylor on the goal line because he's the one who decided to throw it. No, I don't think the punt contributed to the loss in any way. I wasn't expecting to win the game 3-0 but looks like you were. When you hold a team to 10 points, you should win. It was the lowest scoring output in a playoff game in over 20 years and you're blaming one punt LOL.
Irv Posted January 9, 2018 Author Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: Well then blame Taylor on the goal line because he's the one who decided to throw it. No, I don't think the punt contributed to the loss in any way. I wasn't expecting to win the game 3-0 but looks like you were. When you hold a team to 10 points, you should win. It was the lowest scoring output in a playoff game in over 20 years and you're blaming one punt LOL. Yes. I agree with you. It was the difference. Edited January 9, 2018 by Badthingsman
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