Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 47 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: If you want to use preseason you want. I see zero INT's there. It's a double edged sword. When I use preseason stats people don't like it when I post Tyrod's QB rating of 27.9. 12 in the PHI game. Trust.... Also - He should have been able to get in sync after 10 or more games. The point of bringing up preseason, is that late-round draft picks who turn out to be sleeper starters, usually show their hand in TC and preseason. We are told all the time that Russ Wilson roared into his rookie TC and in TC/preseason clearly became the QB of choice over Flynn and TJax. Similar about Dak Prescott - that he came into rookie TC and preseason playing much better than anyone expected. The point isn't "# of INTs thrown in preseason", the point is when we saw Nate in preseason, he was completing overall about 50% of his passes for <6 ypc. Russ Wilson: closer to 64% and 8.5 ypc. Dak Prescott: 78%, 9 ypc Again, I'm not trying to bust the guy; I hope Eric Wood is correct that Peterman will grow into a good NFL QB. Why wouldn't I, he's our backup? My point is just that he hasn't done anything to change the expected career trajectory of a 5th yard draft pick, which is: hold the clipboard, be ready to play if the starter is injured, so I don't understand why people are all about giving him a career that involves more starts. Not because of judging him on one game, just because of what's usual for a 5th round pick who completes 50% of his preseason passes on a well-run team. Re sync: I haven't been through it myself, but to my understanding, there isn't a lot of extra time during the season for QB and WR to 'get in sync'. Presuming that some can be found - which of this year's WR has TT had 10 pre-game practice weeks to get in sync with? 1
grb Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: Right. So forget the draft. Limiting the conversation to just Peterman and Taylor, you are not impressed with the NFL skill set of one guy... that would mean that you are impressed with the NFL skill set of the other. You called him the "best QB on the team". Simple logic. Huh? It's no logic at all. Peterman could be the 100th worst quarterback on the planet and Taylor the 99th. I don't think logic is yer forte
starrymessenger Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Your attempted lecture aside, the insinuation that I have an allegiance to Taylor that is clouding my judgment is 100% incorrect. Anyone can see that he's limited in a number of ways and the Bills would be wise to upgrade. That has nothing to do with how I see Peterman and I've been consistent with what I have posted with regard to him going back to preseason. Here's to the Bills finding their franchise QB in the offseason. In the interim, I'm rooting for Taylor and the Bills to do as well as possible in the post season with the offseason taking care of itself. Go Bills! You have been upfront about Tyrod's limitations. That's why I said you might not fall into "that" category of poster. In that case the point is that your aversion to Peterman is IMO unreasonable and over the top given the limited sample size. Of course you may be right. But then you may also be wrong. If he turns into anything remotely good I will look forward to seeing what you have to say about it.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 Just now, starrymessenger said: You have been upfront about Tyrod's limitations. That's why I said you might not fall into "that" category of poster. In that case the point is that your aversion to Peterman is IMO unreasonable and over the top given the limited sample size. Of course you may be right. But then you may also be wrong. If he turns into anything remotely good I will look forward to seeing what you have to say about it. It's perfectly reasonable based on his physical traits, how he played in CFB, and what he's shown thus far in the NFL. He lasted until the 5th round for a reason. Is it possible that he exceeds expectations to become something more than a potential career backup? Sure, but I'm betting against it.
twoandfourteen Posted January 5, 2018 Author Posted January 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, grb said: Huh? It's no logic at all. Peterman could be the 100th worst quarterback on the planet and Taylor the 99th. I don't think logic is yer forte Let's use your hypothetical. Whatever it is that makes you rank Taylor at 99 and Peterman at 100 would be the thing that "impressed" you, relative to the other guy. It is the skill that one has that is -- in your opinion -- better than the other. Or it could be several skills that separate the two. What we are doing here is evaluating 26's "scouting report" on Peterman against a known entity, in this case it's Tyrod Taylor. So, using Taylor as the baseline, we're trying to figure out how much worse Peterman's skill set is, at least according to 26. 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The point of bringing up preseason, is that late-round draft picks who turn out to be sleeper starters, usually show their hand in TC and preseason. We are told all the time that Russ Wilson roared into his rookie TC and in TC/preseason clearly became the QB of choice over Flynn and TJax. Similar about Dak Prescott - that he came into rookie TC and preseason playing much better than anyone expected. The point isn't "# of INTs thrown in preseason", the point is when we saw Nate in preseason, he was completing overall about 50% of his passes for <6 ypc. Russ Wilson: closer to 64% and 8.5 ypc. Dak Prescott: 78%, 9 ypc Again, I'm not trying to bust the guy; I hope Eric Wood is correct that Peterman will grow into a good NFL QB. Why wouldn't I, he's our backup? My point is just that he hasn't done anything to change the expected career trajectory of a 5th yard draft pick, which is: hold the clipboard, be ready to play if the starter is injured, so I don't understand why people are all about giving him a career that involves more starts. Not because of judging him on one game, just because of what's usual for a 5th round pick who completes 50% of his preseason passes on a well-run team. Re sync: I haven't been through it myself, but to my understanding, there isn't a lot of extra time during the season for QB and WR to 'get in sync'. Presuming that some can be found - which of this year's WR has TT had 10 pre-game practice weeks to get in sync with? Excellent point -- I didn't know this, and for the Peterman nay-sayers it's much more effective than "5 INTS, HAHAHA". It's definitely interesting as far as identifying possible later round draft "gems". Also, I think the standard for QB play is so low around here that if a rookie comes in and makes a couple of strong throws into traffic (Peterman to KB in LA, for one example), it's probably more impressive around here than it would be on a team that has had stronger play from the position.
Wily Dog Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: Let's use your hypothetical. Whatever it is that makes you rank Taylor at 99 and Peterman at 100 would be the thing that "impressed" you, relative to the other guy. It is the skill that one has that is -- in your opinion -- better than the other. Or it could be several skills that separate the two. What we are doing here is evaluating 26's "scouting report" on Peterman against a known entity, in this case it's Tyrod Taylor. So, using Taylor as the baseline, we're trying to figure out how much worse Peterman's skill set is, at least according to 26. Excellent point -- I didn't know this, and for the Peterman nay-sayers it's much more effective than "5 INTS, HAHAHA". It's definitely interesting as far as identifying possible later round draft "gems". Also, I think the standard for QB play is so low around here that if a rookie comes in and makes a couple of strong throws into traffic (Peterman to KB in LA, for one example), it's probably more impressive around here than it would be on a team that has had stronger play from the position. The point being tha,t we have seen a low standard of QB play for many seasons and we were hopeful in TT's run that we would finally see a QB that could be like Kelly or a reasonable facsimile of him.We didn't not see that for two years and through the season. That is why some fans wanted to see our backup. It is what it is, as far as Peterman goes and I hope that next year he can be a starter for us. The nut is , we must trust TT to have a good game(s) and rally around him like true Bill's fans.
reddogblitz Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 Dumping a playoff QB for a fishing expedition for the next great golden armed "Franchise QB" is drought thinking. We're now post drought. Now it's about winning. If we can find a BETTER QB for 2018, go for it. Otherwise, put the other guy on the bench and continue winning with Hotrod.
starrymessenger Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 Tyrod is certainly the more reliable option at this time. But of the two he might not be next year. Tyrod has been in the league a long time. He is what he is and has always pretty much been. Peterman has been in the league a couple of months. To assume that eight months from now Tyrod will continue to be the more desireable starter assumes that Peterman cannot improve or cannot improve enuf to surpass him. I don't see any good and sufficient reason for necessarily coming to that conclusion, certainly not the fact that he was overmatched in his first start or was picked in the fifth round. That's just too easy. Neither at this point is there reason for saying that NP will definitely improve (enuf). But the word around the league seems to be that the Bills like him and see something there worth working with. Obviously I'm not a football professional and I'm not close to the action, don't get to see the practices etc...but as a fan my impression, and that's all that it can be at this point, aligns with that. 1
grb Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, starrymessenger said: Tyrod is certainly the more reliable option at this time. But of the two he might not be next year. I tend to believe the exact opposite : Taylor probably won't be around next year, because the two-headed McBeane clearly is itching to dump him; the Peterman Debacle proof enough of that. But I'd be surprised if they're comfortable going into 2018 with a shiny-new first-rounder and Peterman alone. Given the precarious career-security of your typical Bills coach and GM, I think they'll want a veteran option to avoid any possibility of team regression. Whether it's Taylor or another free-agent, they'll have a third quarterback. Given any sure thing free agent will probably cost as much (or more) than the 9 million cap savings from cutting Taylor, he may well be back. So then do they keep three quarterbacks? The rookie obviously won't be at risk. The veteran could get axed as did Cassel, but I think Peterman is more likely the odd man out.
starrymessenger Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 1 hour ago, grb said: I tend to believe the exact opposite : Taylor probably won't be around next year, because the two-headed McBeane clearly is itching to dump him; the Peterman Debacle proof enough of that. But I'd be surprised if they're comfortable going into 2018 with a shiny-new first-rounder and Peterman alone. Given the precarious career-security of your typical Bills coach and GM, I think they'll want a veteran option to avoid any possibility of team regression. Whether it's Taylor or another free-agent, they'll have a third quarterback. Given any sure thing free agent will probably cost as much (or more) than the 9 million cap savings from cutting Taylor, he may well be back. So then do they keep three quarterbacks? The rookie obviously won't be at risk. The veteran could get axed as did Cassel, but I think Peterman is more likely the odd man out. I think this has been discussed. Presumably if they opt for a vet he will be someone who is good enuf to start. Alex Smith, Teddy Bridgewater etc... One guy backing him up (presumably Peterman) and another on the PS if not on the active roster. That's sort of normal or at least not unusual. That of course assumes that they do not use the bulk of their draft capital to move up for someone they see as their franchise guy. In that case you might well not bring in a vet to start (so Peterman would be or would back up the starter, depending on who won the job, and you roll with two QBs). Or you bring into TC a lower level vet to back up as a security blanket and if he beats out Peterman (the result you seem inclined to believe) and they don't want to carry 3 QBs, then so be it.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 My god. I can’t wait for the Tyrod era to be over. These spinning arguments are stale as . The thread was about how surprising it was that so many HOF QBS has 5 INTs games and not Tyrod Taylor. 1
twoandfourteen Posted January 6, 2018 Author Posted January 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: My god. I can’t wait for the Tyrod era to be over. These spinning arguments are stale as . The thread was about how surprising it was that so many HOF QBS has 5 INTs games and not Tyrod Taylor. Actually, it wasn't even about that... It was about how many 5 INT games there have been since 1999 and how surprising it was to see that the Bills defense has caused the most. But your point still stands.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: Actually, it wasn't even about that... It was about how many 5 INT games there have been since 1999 and how surprising it was to see that the Bills defense has caused the most. But your point still stands. RE Bills alone is impressive!! I stand corrected. 1
Teddy KGB Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 2 hours ago, grb said: Peterman Debacle proof enough of that. 1
pennstate10 Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 Ahh..., the young'uns here. This is the greatest 5 INT game ever. Bills intercept a HOF QB 5 times, including three (3) pick 6's. Jets QB threw EIGHT (8) TD passes in that game. Problem was 3 of those TDs were for the Bills. Only game the Bills won that year.... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/196809290buf.htm
twoandfourteen Posted January 6, 2018 Author Posted January 6, 2018 1 hour ago, pennstate10 said: Ahh..., the young'uns here. This is the greatest 5 INT game ever. Bills intercept a HOF QB 5 times, including three (3) pick 6's. Jets QB threw EIGHT (8) TD passes in that game. Problem was 3 of those TDs were for the Bills. Only game the Bills won that year.... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/196809290buf.htm See, now this is the kind of thing we need more of around this place. Namath went for 280 on 43 attempts that day. I looked up how many games a QB threw for over 250 yds there were in 1968 -- I was kind of surprised that there were 62 of them, 30 in the AFL and 32 in the NFL. I would have guessed there would have been fewer than that. Here's a link to the full list if you're interested. http://pfref.com/tiny/hfLxB
Alphadawg7 Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 8 hours ago, garybusey said: At least 2 of the INTs were on Bills receivers making two boneheaded plays. The FB who had the ball bounce of his head and into the arms of a Charger should have an INT on his stat sheet. Pretty sure Zay dropped one as well that resulted in a pick. Yes - Peterman had a horrible game, but if you take his INTs in context I do not think the game was all time bad like many believe. Sorry this is NOT accurate at all. The single and ONLY int that was not on Peterman was the first one right off the FB's hands. The other 4 were horrible passes by a panicked rookie not ready to start. It was clear as day he should have been pulled after the 3rd pick. He wasn't capable of handling the pressure with our bad OL. Actually, it was a mistake to start him in the first place. Should have been prepared to PULL TT if he struggled at half time rather than benching him outright while we were the 6th seed. Keep in mind, Peterman only completed 50% of his passes in preseason playing against scrubs and backups mostly either on the bench or not even in the league. That is Tebow-esque. Its not like the kid lit it up early and showed he was ready. And I actually DO like Peterman, but man he wasn't ready and he was a deer in headlights the whole first half.
Mike in Horseheads Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 FACT... NP hit KB on a pass over the middle on the play he got hurt. Perfect pass in the WC offense anticipation. FACT.... NP hit KB with two nice pass's in the blizzard before he got hurt. And FACT, TT still can't find him.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 Just now, Mike in Horseheads said: FACT... NP hit KB on a pass over the middle on the play he got hurt. Perfect pass in the WC offense anticipation. FACT.... NP hit KB with two nice pass's in the blizzard before he got hurt. And FACT, TT still can't find him. And one was the toe snow drag swag for the first TD. 1
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