JohnC Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: You might think that..... but I think given then choice he would go to Denver. I'm in the DC/Md area. The talk is that Denver is willing to aggressively go after Cousins. The Redskins are now more open to dealing him if he isn't willing to sing with them. It appears that because Cousins doesn't want to be in Washington the organization is willing to get a deal done. It is getting tired of being strung out by the qb. You and I have been in sync on the qb issue. We had the opportunity to select either Watkins or Mahomes with our first round pick last year. It was a mistake to let that opportunity pass. Ask Cleveland if they regret passing on Goff, Wentz or Watkisn (with their second first round pick last year)? Now we are discussing how much to give up to acquire a high end prospect in the draft. This dilatory approach to the qb position has handcuffed this franchise for so long that it has become part of the fabric of the operation. I'm not wedded to any qb. But assuming that Darnold or Rosen are not available I'm getting more intrigued with Mayfield. His production is off the charts. I believe that he can play sooner than most of the prospects in this class. Let's be clear that getting a good qb prospect on board is not going to instantly elevate this team. It takes time to develop the prospect. And more importantly this team has plenty of needs to address before the Bills can become a serious team. Without a doubt the direction is positive and the organizational structure is in place to move forward.
TFBillsfan Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 Please no to Alex Smith aka Trent Edwards! I’d rather keep Taylor. Improve the roster with your draft capital and move up into the teens if necessary for a QB. With Cousins, Manning, Bridgewater, Smith, Keenum and Bradford potentially all available it will push some QB’s down. If somehow Baker is there mid teens go get him! Guy just looks like a Buffalo Bill and you don’t lose much of your draft capital!
starrymessenger Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 Since we are not likely getting one of the top QBs regardless, keep the picks, use the draft and FA to fill the needs. Get a vet who can start and mentor. Stay put and draft a developmental guy with good size, a big accurate arm and good intangibles (like the kid from W. Kentucky). And next year we challenge for the division. JMO.
xRUSHx Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Isn't it just two in the first since Kelly? Losman (traded up) and EJ (traded down)? Just goes to show it isn't about whether you give up picks or gain picks or stand pat it is about good talent evaluation. If the Bills spend both 1sts and a 2nd on a QB after a trade up and it turns out it is the right QB then the trade up will never ever matter because it is easily worth the cost. If they trade back get another extra 2nd and then pick the wrong QB the extra picks are worthless as well.... because they will be no closer to solving the most important position on the team. I want to see them make a move for a top prospect QB, they have the picks and it is a good draft to pick one so I have my fingers crossed they move up to grab one of the top dogs this draft as oppose to waiting a couple rounds to grab the scraps left in the later rounds to get another Peterman longshot talent.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 27 minutes ago, DCBongo said: depending on Sunday, Id keep Tyrod for one more year and be willing to trade both 1st round picks to move up. I would not give up too much to move up as the team as plenty of holes to patch. I say sit and wait and see if a QB comes to you. Bills drafted plenty of 1st round QB's and outside of #12, they weren't worth spit. This is incorrect. In the entire history of the franchise, the Bills have drafted 3 1st round QBs, NONE with their first or original 1st round pick. Kelly was their second 1st round pick of the day. Losman came after they didnt offer enough to move up to get Big Ben, and after they picked Lee Evans. EJ was a trade down (a smart move in a QB-weak draft) That's it. This franchise has never once taken the QB position seriously, and it shows in it's overall status. Time to get serious when you are sitting on a ton of draft capital going into one of the best QB classes in over a decade. 2 1
K-9 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 10 hours ago, Domdab99 said: Darnold looks so much like a Sanchez/Leinart bust, it's scary The one key thing that separates him is his arm. Sanchez and especially Leinart just never possessed that kind of arm. That said, he’s got a LONG development road ahead of him. He needs to go to a team that will let him carry a clipboard and let him learn.
kota Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 get a QB. We need dominance so we dont' have to squeek into the playoffs every year. A strong defense and Tyrod may give us 9-7 or 10-6 seasons but that isn't enough. We need first round byes and home games again!!!!
xRUSHx Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, kota said: get a QB. We need dominance so we dont' have to squeek into the playoffs every year. A strong defense and Tyrod may give us 9-7 or 10-6 seasons but that isn't enough. We need first round byes and home games again!!!! We need to get this team to a playoff level not wish for a miracle that another team can help us get in. It took a few decades for it to happen once.
K-9 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: This is incorrect. In the entire history of the franchise, the Bills have drafted 3 1st round QBs, NONE with their first or original 1st round pick. Kelly was their second 1st round pick of the day. Losman came after they didnt offer enough to move up to get Big Ben, and after they picked Lee Evans. EJ was a trade down (a smart move in a QB-weak draft) That's it. This franchise has never once taken the QB position seriously, and it shows in it's overall status. Time to get serious when you are sitting on a ton of draft capital going into one of the best QB classes in over a decade. We need to include the #1 picks invested in trades as well. That’s not saying we shouldn’t have invested more over the years, just that we’ve invested more #1s into the QB position than meets the eye.
BigBuff423 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, starrymessenger said: Since we are not likely getting one of the top QBs regardless, keep the picks, use the draft and FA to fill the needs. Get a vet who can start and mentor. Stay put and draft a developmental guy with good size, a big accurate arm and good intangibles (like the kid from W. Kentucky). And next year we challenge for the division. JMO. I'm not trying to pick on you here, but you realize what you outlined as a "developmental guy", is pretty close to a franchise caliber QB that goes in the top 10? Good size Big arm Accurate Intangibles / Leadership There's not much left except for Pro Style Offense experience and history of using audibles at the line....which very, very few do. So, if you're taking a "developmental guy", you're probably taking a guy who is missing the big arm or the accuracy or the size....I don't think you can teach or coach too much of the intangibles, to some degree, but either you have good character by the time you enter the NFL, or you don't.... Edited January 4, 2018 by BigBuff423
Chadwick Bay Chad Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 We will be trading for Alex Smith or signing Case Keeumum
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Nope. We surrendered our 3rd rounder. ...and I believe a 7th...........
starrymessenger Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said: I'm not trying to pick on you here, but you realize what you outlined as a "developmental guy", pretty is a franchise caliber QB that goes in the top 10? Good size Big arm Accurate Intangibles / Leadership There's not much left except for Pro Style Offense experience and history of using audibles at the line....which very, very few do. So, if you're taking a "developmental guy", you're probably taking a guy who is missing the big arm or the accuracy or the size....I don't think you can teach or coach too much of the intangibles, to some degree, but either you have good character by the time you enter the NFL, or you don't.... Mike White. Bills like him. Even if he's a draft riser he should be available late first or maybe even in the second. Rosen and Darnold are gone. I'm not packaging a bunch of first round picks and maybe some second(s) for Allen, Rudolph, Mayfield. Too many flaws to justify it IMO. Too many holes to fill. I'd rather see Roquan Smith, Marcell Ateman, Vita Vea type guys than say Rudolph, whose ceiling (assuming he can transition) is Andy Dalton, and whose floor is Bryce Petty. JMO.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, K-9 said: We need to include the #1 picks invested in trades as well. That’s not saying we shouldn’t have invested more over the years, just that we’ve invested more #1s into the QB position than meets the eye. Good point: Blew a 2005 1st round pick in the trade-in to get Losman Sent a 1st to New England for an over the hill Bledsoe Blew a 1st on Rob Johnson in 1998 All this shows me is how poor Ralph's organization was a valuing and finding QBs. Let's get serious for once.
BigBuff423 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, starrymessenger said: Mike White. Bills like him. Even if he's a draft riser he should be available late first or maybe even in the second. Rosen and Darnold are gone. I'm not packaging a bunch of first round picks and maybe some second(s) for Allen, Rudolph, Mayfield. Too many flaws to justify it IMO. Too many holes to fill. I'd rather see Roquan Smith, Marcell Ateman, Vita Vea type guys than say Rudolph, whose ceiling (assuming he can transition) is Andy Dalton, and whose floor is Bryce Petty. JMO. And that may be the way to go, I'm not offering my opinion on what I think the Bills should do until FA comes around the Draft is just days away, I was merely pointing out that it seems incongruent to place the tag of "developmental guy" and then list those qualities that make him developmental when those same qualities nearly make him a top 10 QB....so, if we're going to take a developmental guy, he will need to have a larger issue with his quarterbacking skills than some other unknown. If his arm is elite, his accuracy is good to elite, he's a good leader and has the intangibles and is of prototypical NFL QB size, there's not much left to make him a developmental guy, that was my only point. Edit: in looking through some scouting reviews, so it's not just my take, Mike White's arm is about average, so I would have to disagree that he has a "big" arm, which explains why he's currently projected to go somewhere between the 6th round and UDFA. Edited January 4, 2018 by BigBuff423
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 10 hours ago, Domdab99 said: Darnold looks so much like a Sanchez/Leinart bust, it's scary This draft could totally be like the 2012 draft where the most successful QB to date has ended up being some third round unknown “not ‘something’ enough guy” with a litany of busts along the way.
K-9 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Good point: Blew a 2005 1st round pick in the trade-in to get Losman Sent a 1st to New England for an over the hill Bledsoe Blew a 1st on Rob Johnson in 1998 All this shows me is how poor Ralph's organization was a valuing and finding QBs. Let's get serious for once. So two on Losman and one each on Rojo and Bedsore. Four in 20 years. How does that compare to others around the league, I wonder?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, K-9 said: So two on Losman and one each on Rojo and Bedsore. Four in 20 years. How does that compare to others around the league, I wonder? And one on Manuel.
K-9 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: And one on Manuel. Good catch. So five #1s in 20 years; one every four years on average. How does that compare league wide over that time span?
GunnerBill Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...and I believe a 7th........... Yep. The 7th we got from the Cardale Jones trade.
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