YoloinOhio Posted January 4, 2018 Author Posted January 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said: Scott MAJ Bobby has some sort of weird infatuation with Whaley. Whaley literally didnt do anything. He actually asked Rex according MAJBobby’s own rumor article he posted. Now now, I disagree he didn’t do *anything*. I heard he carefully and correctly chose the Pinot noir over the merlot for the yacht party.
MAJBobby Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said: Scott MAJ Bobby has some sort of weird infatuation with Whaley. Whaley literally didnt do anything. He actually asked Rex according MAJBobby’s own rumor article he posted. GM of the team at the time last I checked. Hmmm Yep 1 minute ago, Rico said: That’s the bottom line approach, which all kidding aside, I can truly respect. The bottom line line on Whaley is that he was a FAILURE as asst. GM and a FAILURE as GM. No surprise that the team finally made the playoffs as soon as this chump was sent packing and all his signature moves were trashed. ROONEY RULE. Yes he was a failure as a GM. Much like GMTM he was a much better scout than GM. However like i said was the GM when the Best player on the team was acquired
Alphadawg7 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Rico said: That’s the bottom line approach, which all kidding aside, I can truly respect. The bottom line line on Whaley is that he was a FAILURE as asst. GM and a FAILURE as GM. No surprise that the team finally made the playoffs as soon as this chump was sent packing and all his signature moves were trashed. ROONEY RULE. LMAO...we made the playoffs because we got rid of the failure Ryan Brothers. Not to mention Whaley DRASTICALLY improved our secondary BEFORE he left. You realize Hyde, Poyer, and Tre are all here because of Whaley and are one of the biggest reasons for our defensive turnaround behind firing the Ryan brothers right? And the defensive improvement and better coaching are the REASON we made the playoffs this year too right? Whaley hired McD too by the way. Seriously, the stuff people say here is utterly absurd at times. You guys should be THANKING Whaley, he made the playoffs THIS year possible with his work AS the GM before he left. Edited January 4, 2018 by Alphadawg7
GunnerBill Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: By far the absolute worst part of this organization was the Ryan brothers, who were NOT Whaley's choice to being with and the reason he got fired. And this is from someone who initially loved the Rex Ryan hire and has since realized just how bad he and his brother were after watching them destroy our defense with over complicated crap. Hear, hear.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) Why did we make the playoffs this year: Better coaching. Rex was chosen by Pegs, not Whaley. McD was hired by WHALEY just like Marrone was who led us to 9-7 in his. first year with an awful offense and has now taken Jags to playoffs in first year as HC. Better defense: Major improvements by getting rid of Ryan brothers, but also MASSIVE over haul of the secondary. All 3 players, among the NFL leaders in Interceptions too, that turned it around (Hyde, Poyer, and Tre) all here because of WHALEY. McCoy: Also here because of WHALEY...not to mention Clay and Incognito. In fact, all of our best players on offense this year except for KB were here because of WHALEY. In addition: All of our best players on defense were all here also because of WHALEY. Whaley did a LOT of this team but was saddled with a terrible coaching hire that dismantled the defense of this team at a time where our offense made a major turnaround. That defensive liability, terrible coaching, and a horrible streak of injury bad luck is what held this team down the previous 2 years before McD. This whole QB crap is nonsense. Nix forced EJ onto him, which led to him trying to make something of him and add some peices around him. Marrone wanted a Vet, so he got top available Vet at the time. Then Rex wanted TT and he went and got the new coach the QB he wanted. That QB then turned the offense into the highest scoring period in Bills history behind only the early SB years while the Ryan experiment (thanks to the Pegs) imploded the defense and made it a massive liability. I like Beane too even though I don't agree with everything he has done, but the Whaley hate is ridiculous around here as he gets blamed for things not his fault while also not getting credit for so many really good things he did. Edited January 4, 2018 by Alphadawg7
GaryPinC Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 18 hours ago, Magox said: His three main problems were A) Didn't have a clear vision and plan of action. B) Didn't know how to properly value talent C) Was unable to sell himself enough to ownership to have more control C) was symptomatic of A) and his lack of communication skills, IMO. I liked Doug Whaley. He made some mistakes but did a decent job bringing in talent, especially with the constant coaching overhauls. Also agree that he didn't always properly value talent. For me, Pegula being happily willing to hand over control of the roster to McDermott upon his arrival told me everything I needed to know about Whaley's vision and plan: he had none or was totally ineffective at communicating it. The mess surrounding Rex's firing also speaks to Whaley's lack of presence. In business, you have to earn control. Especially since Whaley was new to the title with zero track record previously. And in complete fairness to Whaley, he was groomed to the position by first-time GM Buddy Nix, who seemed more interested in bringing in talent than enacting and executing a detailed 5 year plan for the franchise. I hope Doug finds a better mentor first if he wishes to ascend to GM again.
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Why did we make the playoffs this year: Better coaching. Rex was chosen by Pegs, not Whaley. McD was hired by WHALEY just like Marrone was who led us to 9-7 in his. first year with an awful offense and has now taken Jags to playoffs in first year as HC. Better defense: Major improvements by getting rid of Ryan brothers, but also MASSIVE over haul of the secondary. All 3 players, among the NFL leaders in Interceptions too, that turned it around (Hyde, Poyer, and Tre) all here because of WHALEY. McCoy: Also here because of WHALEY...not to mention Clay and Incognito. In fact, all of our best players on offense this year except for KB were here because of WHALEY. In addition: All of our best players on defense were all here also because of WHALEY. Whaley did a LOT of this team but was saddled with a terrible coaching hire that dismantled the defense of this team at a time where our offense made a major turnaround. That defensive liability, terrible coaching, and a horrible streak of injury bad luck is what held this team down the previous 2 years before McD. This whole QB crap is nonsense. Nix forced EJ onto him, which led to him trying to make something of him and add some peices around him. Marrone wanted a Vet, so he got top available Vet at the time. Then Rex wanted TT and he went and got the new coach the QB he wanted. That QB then turned the offense into the highest scoring period in Bills history behind only the early SB years while the Ryan experiment (thanks to the Pegs) imploded the defense and made it a massive liability. I like Beane too even though I don't agree with everything he has done, but the Whaley hate is ridiculous around here as he gets blamed for things not his fault while also not getting credit for so many really good things he did. This is the stuff the Whaley people have to convince themselves of before they try to convince the rest of us. It's a heavy lift. EJ wasn't "forced" on Whaley. Nix was a lame duck GM and everyone knew the Bills were going to draft a QB because of the miserable failure of Nix and Whaley at scouting and picking one before that. Whaley has told us in his own words how he was all for the Rex pick (his purported "top choice" of Hue Jackson was infinitely worse and indicative of how clueless Whaley is). There should be no doubt that Pegula, who as a guy who knows nothing about staffing an NFL team, relied heavily on Whaley and Russ in picking the HC. Whaley was FIRED by Pegula for that error in judgment. As soon as Pegula fired Rex, everyone knew that Whaley was a lame duck. It's widely assumed that McD was running the draft board--even replacing Whaley's picks with his own. He was given that authority by Pegula.
GunnerBill Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: There should be no doubt that Pegula, who as a guy who knows nothing about staffing an NFL team, relied heavily on Whaley and Russ in picking the HC. The Pegulas picked Rex. They fell for him at hello. They realised their error and corrected. Maybe the fact that Whaley was not strong enough a personality to talk them out of their dumb error did lead in part to his firing - that is fair. Edited January 4, 2018 by GunnerBill
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The Pegulas picked Rex. They fell for him at hello. They realised their error and corrected. Maybe the fact that Whaley was not strong enough a personality to talk them out of their dumb error did lead in part to his firing - that is fair. Whaley disagrees with your characterization of the hiring of Rex. You need to go back and read what the Pegulas and Whaley said about the process, immediately after. It's the opposite of what you have just written.
GunnerBill Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: Whaley disagrees with your characterization of the hiring of Rex. You need to go back and read what the Pegulas and Whaley said about the process, immediately after. It's the opposite of what you have just written. Whaley's bit is. Pegula's isn't. "He was one of the last guys we saw and he had a really impressive interview. So we said okay let's go for Rex"
Bill_with_it Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, MAJBobby said: GM of the team at the time last I checked. Hmmm Yep Yes he was a failure as a GM. Much like GMTM he was a much better scout than GM. However like i said was the GM when the Best player on the team was acquired Im sure the backup qb to tom brady when he won all those superbowls can claim he was an integral part of the team. You are just über yikes today.
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Whaley's bit is. Pegula's isn't. "He was one of the last guys we saw and he had a really impressive interview. So we said okay let's go for Rex" They were in complete agreement, there is no hint otherwise. Even Kim Pegula said he wasn't high on their list before they started, but Whaley told them "you have to keep an open mind", and "how do you know?", "you just know".. The Whaley goes into great detail why HE thought Rex was the man for the job. But you and others want to pretend that Whaley was blinking "T-O-R-T-U-R-E" in Morse code while the cameras were rolling at the Hanoi Hilton when he gave those immediate post hiring interviews. 1 1
GunnerBill Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: They were in complete agreement, there is no hint otherwise. Even Kim Pegula said he wasn't high on their list before they started, but Whaley told them "you have to keep an open mind", and "how do you know?", "you just know".. The Whaley goes into great detail why HE thought Rex was the man for the job. But you and others want to pretend that Whaley was blinking "T-O-R-T-U-R-E" in Morse code while the cameras were rolling at the Hanoi Hilton when he gave those immediate post hiring interviews. No I don't pretend that. I have accepted numerous times that he obviously felt he could work with Rex successfully even though he was not his number 1 choice. But the Pegulas would have hired Rex Ryan without Whaley's say so. They'd have moved him on. It is exactly what they did this time too. McDermott was their guy... and this time they did see that it wasn't going to work with Whaley and move Whaley on.
Magox Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No I don't pretend that. I have accepted numerous times that he obviously felt he could work with Rex successfully even though he was not his number 1 choice. But the Pegulas would have hired Rex Ryan without Whaley's say so. They'd have moved him on. It is exactly what they did this time too. McDermott was their guy... and this time they did see that it wasn't going to work with Whaley and move Whaley on. Which goes back to my premise that Whaley was not able to sell his vision nor plan of action to the Pegula's.
GunnerBill Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Magox said: Which goes back to my premise that Whaley was not able to sell his vision nor plan of action to the Pegula's. And I agree he wasn't.
Wayne Arnold Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Whaley's bit is. Pegula's isn't. "He was one of the last guys we saw and he had a really impressive interview. So we said okay let's go for Rex" Then Whaley told the Pegulas how much of a mistake it would be. Oh wait...no he didn't.
Socal-805 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 21 hours ago, Dr. K said: I'm glad to hear it. I have gotten very tired of all the Whaley bashing that has gone on here for years. I fully expect him to be successful at his next GM job. You're kidding????
wppete Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 Ive always liked Whaley. Hope it works out for him and he finds a good team.
GunnerBill Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Then Whaley told the Pegulas how much of a mistake it would be. Oh wait...no he didn't. I have never argued he did. People have always taken me saying that the Pegulas have hired their Head Coaches and they have been their choices as some sort of defense of Doug Whaley. It isn't intended that way it is just the accurate protrayal of what happened. Whaley either wasn't strong enough or a good enough communicator to disagree or he was compliant neither of which reflects well on him. 1
Socal-805 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 20 hours ago, yungmack said: He built TWO rosters for the Bills, for Marrone and for Ryan, brought in a ton of pro FAs who've contributed, and oversaw the most recent draft. His draft picks are all over the NFL, most doing just fine. And still some people think GM is beyond his capabilities. I wonder why that is? Can't pick a Coach and can't find a QB? Also stupid contracts and trades?? 1
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