Taylor's value in 2017 was mostly about 2 things, one being 3rd down

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

I think (just my opinion) that McD thought Peterman suited the offense in place better so the switch was made.   Rather then revamp an entire offense to fit one player he tried to insert one player into a already installed offense.

 

The problem was Peterman was just not ready.

 

Yes...I agree with this too.  Taylor wasn't running the offense how he wanted it and even though Peterman was a 5th round rookie, he felt he could run it better.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

My answer to your question is no.

 

Of course McDermott wants to score more points, but he's kidding himself if doesn't think the conservative, predictable style of play on offense has nothing to do with that. My point is all of that(or even most of that)is not on Tyrod as most want to put it on. A lot of that is on the coaching staff to stop being ultra conservative and predictable when they get a lead. 

McD is a defensive coach.....defensive coaches are by nature conservative and go with what they are comfortable at.

 

I really dont think we will ever see him trying to step on peoples neck's offensively like the pats do.......we have to hope that he recognizes its going to take a certain amount of points to beat the elite teams regardless of how well the d plays.

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

My answer to your question is no.

 

Of course McDermott wants to score more points, but he's kidding himself if doesn't think the conservative, predictable style of play on offense has nothing to do with that. My point is all of that(or even most of that)is not on Tyrod as most want to put it on. A lot of that is on the coaching staff to stop being ultra conservative and predictable when they get a lead. 

Yup, and the McCoy stats up above are telling. He had 7 runs for 46 yards against Miami in the first half of their first game, and he finished with 18 for 49. The Chiefs game was the same. That has nothing to do with Taylor and everything to do with unimaginative playcalling. There was a play last week where McCoy broke three tackles in very impressive fashion just to get back the LOS. That happened way too much this year; Shady hasn't lost a step at all either. I get McDermott's idea, and results are results, but the late-game rushing efforts have been terrible. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

My answer to your question is no.

 

Of course McDermott wants to score more points, but he's kidding himself if doesn't think the conservative, predictable style of play on offense has nothing to do with that. My point is all of that(or even most of that)is not on Tyrod as most want to put it on. A lot of that is on the coaching staff to stop being ultra conservative and predictable when they get a lead. 

I agree with this and has been mentioned several times before.

 

Dennison and Tyrod is not a good fit together. Dennison wants to run his system and his system only. Not a sign of good coaching. 

 

Then you saying he was satisfied with one TD a game was wrong?  

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

He's satisfied with having a lead and playing defense to maintain that lead. 

 

My overall point is the coaching staffs strategy on offense is more to blame then Tyrod for the lack of scoring. Ok?

 

You just can't admit you're wrong about a statement....you just can't do it.  Too much pride Scott.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Then you saying he was satisfied with one TD a game was wrong?  

Seriously, go through the game logs on PFR and check out the second half rushing when the Bills have a lead. It is pathetic. 

 

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You just can't admit you're wrong about a statement....you just can't do it.  Too much pride Scott.

You're not correct here.  He has a point. And he's not even really being critical of McDermott given that there is a logic to it.

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Seriously, go through the game logs on PFR and check out the second half rushing when the Bills have a lead. It is pathetic. 

 

You're not correct here.  He has a point. And he's not even really being critical of McDermott given that there is a logic to it.

 

Dave you weren't following the conversation.

He said McDermott was satisfied with 1 TD a game.  McDermott said in a press conference that he's concerned about us scoring points.  These are conflicting.

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Lol. Yea you got me. Sounds like you are the one with too much pride bud.?

 

It's not pride for me, I just wanted to see if you could do it.  That's all.  

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, Maine-iac said:

So why did we score almost 400 points last year?  If we are running so well this year that's not it.  Did we throw it so much better last year?  If it's just yards we should be scoring almost the same since the rushing attack is great like you say.   

 

It's right there in black and white ........... if anyone cares.

 

 

Last year we had 29 rushing TDs. This year we have 12. 

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Dave you weren't following the conversation.

He said McDermott was satisfied with 1 TD a game.  McDermott said in a press conference that he's concerned about us scoring points.  These are conflicting.

 

It's not pride for me, I just wanted to see if you could do it.  That's all.  

RwC, I went through every post in this thread and unless I completely missed it, ScottLaw never said the bolded comment above.

Edited January 3, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

RwC, I went through every post in this thread and unless I completely missed, ScottLaw never said the bolded comment above.

 

I asked him if McDermott was satisfied with 1 TD a game and he replied "yup".

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Last year we had 29 rushing TDs. This year we have 12. 

I'd like hear from someone with a little bit of expertise about the differential effects of Roman's inside zone scheme and Dennison's outside zone scheme on productivity. It seems to me that the former is more unique and hence a little harder to prepare for.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I asked him if McDermott was satisfied with 1 TD a game and he replied "yup".

Fair enough. He did clarify himself, however. You don't honestly believe that he thinks the coach doesn't want to score more, correct?

[Maine-iac]

Again the stats by qtr tell the story.  Taylor doesn't have some kind of exagerated playing from behind numbers and the running game is non existent in the second half.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2017_splits.htm#qtr_splits::none

 

Even scarier are the red zone numbers.  We cannot run the ball in the red zone.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2017_splits.htm#field_position_splits::none

 

Lastly go ahead and look at every play from the 3rd qtr all season.  Running is horrendous.  Ton of big plays brought back on penalties.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/play_finder.cgi?request=1&match=summary_all&year_min=2017&year_max=2017&team_id=buf&opp_id=&game_type=R&playoff_round=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=0&week_num_max=99&tr_gtlt=lt&ytg_gtlt=gt&yds_to_go=&yg_gtlt=gt&yards=&is_first_down=-1&fp_gtlt=gt&fp_tm_opp=team&fp_ydline=&type=PASS&type=RUSH&is_turnover=-1&is_scoring=-1&no_play=0&game_day_of_week=&game_result=&order_by=yards&quarter=3#all_plays::none

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I misinterpreted your question.

 

McDermott is satisfied with having a lead. Coaches want to win. Period.

 

My overall point was the coaching staff are mostly to blame for the lack of TDs and overall bad offensive production.

 

Is that clear enough for you?

 

How do you misinterpret a yes or no question when you only have two possible answers?  It couldn't have been more simple.

This is you trying to find some silver lining you're not wrong.  Geezus.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Royale with Cheese

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I'd like hear from someone with a little bit of expertise about the differential effects of Roman's inside zone scheme and Dennison's outside zone scheme on productivity. It seems to me that the former is more unique and hence a little harder to prepare for.

 

I think it's a mistake to term Roman's scheme "inside zone." I don't think it really fits into any box particularly.  It is a real hybrid run scheme it has plenty of power run / trap concepts, it mixes that with inside zone with outside zone with zone read.... it has everything in there. Dennison is much more of a classic outside zone scheme with fewer wrinkles. I would need to find the numbers again but with Roman's scheme and Roman's playcalling back in 2015 I seem to remember reading we had a slight bias towards more outside zone.  With Roman's scheme but Lynn calling plays in 2016 we ran a lot of inside zone. 

 

My personal view on why of those years 2016 was the most productive is that it forces Shady to go north and south more because that is where the lanes tend to be.  I think he has always had a tendency when you start him running more horizontal to the line of scrimmage to keep bouncing until he sees a home run opportunity.  Often if you just hit the hole that looks like a 3 or 4 yard gain and no more than that you find that suddenly there is grass infront of you.  Not to criticise Shady too much... he has been brilliant for us since he got here and I'd hate to think of our offense this year if it was without him but I think the inside zone kind of forces him north and south quicker and he is more effective when he does that and then uses his ability to make the guys at the second level miss in the open field rather than running 10 yards and making 2 guys miss behind the line of scrimmage for a 4 yard gain. 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it's a mistake to term Roman's scheme "inside zone." I don't think it really fits into any box particularly.  It is a real hybrid run scheme it has plenty of power run / trap concepts, it mixes that with inside zone with outside zone with zone read.... it has everything in there. Dennison is much more of a classic outside zone scheme with fewer wrinkles. I would need to find the numbers again but with Roman's scheme and Roman's playcalling back in 2015 I seem to remember reading we had a slight bias towards more outside zone.  With Roman's scheme but Lynn calling plays in 2016 we ran a lot of inside zone. 

 

My personal view on why of those years 2016 was the most productive is that it forces Shady to go north and south more because that is where the lanes tend to be.  I think he has always had a tendency when you start him running more horizontal to the line of scrimmage to keep bouncing until he sees a home run opportunity.  Often if you just hit the hole that looks like a 3 or 4 yard gain and no more than that you find that suddenly there is grass infront of you.  Not to criticise Shady too much... he has been brilliant for us since he got here and I'd hate to think of our offense this year if it was without him but I think the inside zone kind of forces him north and south quicker and he is more effective when he does that and then uses his ability to make the guys at the second level miss in the open field rather than running 10 yards and making 2 guys miss behind the line of scrimmage for a 4 yard gain. 

Fantastic! Thanks. Sounds like we're not running the right scheme for the talent we have.

[teef]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

YES HE WANTS TO SCORE MORE TDS.

 

Good? 

he just needs the qb that has the ability to do so.  

[teef]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

The same QB last year right? When the team was tops in scoring offensive TDs and big plays? 

 

Yep. All Tyrods fault.?

no one said it was all tyrods fault scott.  you come close to having a noraml conversation, and then you go all scott again.  as i've said before, i like tt, but do is really the qb you want to build around?  i don't.   if you don't think tyrod has some responsibility for the lack of production on offense, then i guess we just see things differently.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

The same QB last year right? When the team was tops in scoring offensive TDs and big plays? 

 

Yep. All Tyrods fault.?

 

We had 29 rushing TD's last year....

If he was the driving force behind the offensive scoring production...why did they cut his pay and put another walk out clause in the contract for this year?

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Fantastic! Thanks. Sounds like we're not running the right scheme for the talent we have.

 

To me if you are going to be a run first team in the NFL your first hire should be Greg Roman. He is the best run game designer in the business and it isn't even close in my opinion.  But don't hire him as OC. Let him be the guy behind the scenes on the blackboard like he is in Baltimore and get an OC to call his plays. Roman's playbook with Lynn's play calling was dynamic. 

 

The thing that the Shanahan, Kubiak, Dennison etc scheme has always done much better than a Roman offense over the years is build a passing game that compliments the run game so that the two are in sync. Roman's passing game is almost unconnected to his run game it appears like two different playbooks at times.  Sadly it hasn't worked for Dennison as well here because in order to have that single highly complimentary scheme you need your QB to do some of the things that don't suit Tyrod's skill set. I'm not enamoured with Dennison but I do think he has taken a slightly unfair amount of stick this year.  Everyone in the league knows what he runs so don't hire him and then ask him to run something else.  I actually think he has swallowed his pride and adjusted the run game as he has gone and the pass game in that Tyrod did more shotgun as the season progressed after a lot of under centre and pistol stuff early on.  But I never felt like they were a coordinator and QB match sadly.  We know Rico wasn't McDermott's first choice so maybe to an extent his hand was forced when other people went elsewhere.  One of the slight downsides of making the playoffs (not complaining) is that some of the hot young offensive coaches I'd have liked to consider if they replace Dennison are already interviewing elsewhere - Sean Ryan the Houston QB Coach has an interview to be OC in Cleveland for example.