So what happens if TT plays well against the jags and we win?

[billsbackto81]

This is what I see.

Record: (9-7)	Division: (3-3)
vs AFC: (7-5)	vs NFC: (2-2)
Home: (6-2)	Road: (3-5)
Place: 2nd
Team Rankings: Through Week 16 Total Offense: 29th Passing: 32nd Rushing: 6th Total Defense: 25th Passing: 18th Rushing: 30th   Nuff said! I'm sooooo happy with making the playoffs but this has to be one of the worse teams (statistically)  to ever make a post season. Maybe even more so than the division winning Seahawks a few years back at 7-9. Remember BeastQuake!   Don't care though. We are in and everyone is 0-0 at this point. If we progress, fantastic! If not, we have laid the ground work for a bright future with a promising coach and front office and a boatload of picks.

Edited January 2, 2018 by billsbackto81

[MAJBobby]

18 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

I just dont agree with this language.....it makes it look like Tyrod was making mistakes during games and the team was overcoming it to win.

 

That is NOT the case....if anything it is Tyrod's lack of mistakes (by that I mean turning the ball over) which is also reason we are in the post season for the first time in 17 years.

 

Was our defense great this year?  No it was not.

 

Did we keep up those insane turnover differentials to win games?  No we did not.

 

Did we run the ball as well as we did last year?  no we did not.

 

Im not saying that he didnt leave plays on the field....he clearly did.   That does not mean that we win in SPITE of him....it means that he isnt "the reason" why we win......I am saying that is Shady (which means trouble for us this weekend)

 

I think we should draft a qb high.....I would like to see what a offense in Buffalo woudl look like with a prolific accurate passer.....but we did not win "in spite" of Tyrod Taylor

 

What game just one did we win when the defense was having issues and the offense particularly Taylor covered for them maybe 1. 

 

Now how many times did the defense cover for the Offense and taylor not being able to close out a game because they cannot stay on the field. 6

[manbeast]

9 hours ago, MJS said:

Playing very well for Tyrod is 230 yards and 2 TD's, something which is average for most other QB's in this league.

 

I'm all for bringing Tyrod back as a bridge QB, but there is no way you can build around him. You still have to go all in to get a passing QB.

I have no problem with bringing in competition, but let's not create the TT curse.

[Real McClappy]

19 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The defensive league ratings against the run and the pass were about the same place that Tyrod was in the league ratings. And you can't say turnovers were the difference because Tyrod was #1 in the league in that category. The defense had several atrocious games, so you cannot use that as an argument either.

Go look at every game the Bills won this year and note pts against. The D is a MAJOR reason why the Bills are in the playoffs!  the handful of bad games you point to are what 100% skews the overall D stats on the year. There were 10-11 solid ass D performances games this year.

 

For the record: I hope Tyrod plays like Joe Montana in the playoffs. I'm not here to bash him

Edited January 2, 2018 by Real McCoy

[Kelly the Dog]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The defense improved from 27th to 15th in DVOA and the offense sank from 10th to 26th. That's kind of a wash, so what might explain the shift from 7-9/8-8 to 9-7 (I think they would have gone 8-8 last year if they didn't tank the final game)? ST went from 22nd in 2016 to 10th this year. Carpenter was basically zero wins above replacement last year, and Hauschka was one win above replacement.  The Bills went from a 76 percent kicker to an 88 percent kicker, and the 88 percent guy also made a LOT of lower percentage long kicks. Huge improvement.

The point was only that the defense wasnt the reason the Bills made the playoffs any more than Tyrod was. Tyrod was Tyrod, which is pretty good but surely not great and capable of playing lousy. The defense was pretty good but surely not great and capable of playing lousy. The one thing they did great was turnovers, which is also the one thing he does great. Haushcka was clearly a difference maker.

[racketmaster]

I have no problem drafting another QB and continuing to groom Peterman for either a backup role or potential starter down the road. But, I also do not just want to kick Taylor to the curb without a solid answer. If used properly, Taylor can be and has been an effective starter.

*He is several games above .500 in his career with the Bills (and don't even try and argue that this was all defense and special teams or coaching)

*Rarely turns over the ball (I know this is boring but turnovers are huge and not turning over the ball keeps teams in games)

*Running threat (teams must game plan for Taylor's running ability - disciplined pass rushes help our offensive line, spies and less straight man coverage help wrs, when running zone read it helps our rbs as Taylor must be accounted for etc.)

*Ability to throw deep ball (we don't have any true deep threats this year (Thompson is best we have) but Taylor has shown in the past that he can deliver a good deep ball

*Can wear down defenses when they have to chase Taylor around all game (taking longer to deliver the ball and scrambling around in the pocket can be an advantage to hit big scramble drill plays as well as wearing down defenses. 

*Calm and rarely gets flustered. Demeanor calms teammates and helps with avoiding turnovers. 

*Good teammate and respected leader. Mature and works hard. 

 

We also know he has limitations.

*Lack of height causes some deflections and lack of vision for 3 step drops in the pocket

*Limited anticipation. Taylor does not throw with the same anticipation that good pocket passers throw with.

*Situational awareness. Taylor sometimes lacks this (not throwing the ball away to avoid needless sacks, has improved in 2 minute situations but still too slow in getting plays off, knowing when to be more aggressive and take chances in situations that call for it)

*Being more patient when rolling out. Sometimes it would be better to float backwards a bit to buy more time rather than hastily run toward sidelines causing himself to run out of room too soon (see how Wilson manipulates defensive pass rushers when out of pocket)

 

All in all, Taylor ends up being an above average qb. He has good games and bad games (just like every other above average qb). But there are only a few qbs in the league (one being in our division) that cause the Bills to be at a significant disadvantage when playing them). He will not ever be the 300 yard passer type that throws for 2-3 tds and 1-2 picks. It's just not his game. He is probably more Kaepernick than Wilson as a passer. But he is an overall better qb than Kaepernick. 

 

So this week, he is the better overall qb (against Bortles). But Bortles has the better overall team. Can Bortles get hot, sure he can and maybe he will. He will face a limited pass rush and has a great defense to bail him out and set him up for good field position. Plus he has a stable of good rbs to rely on and is facing a team that has trouble stopping the run. But going into this week, who would swap Taylor for Bortles? Put Bortles on the Bills and Taylor on the Jags this week and it is most likely a blowout for the Jags. Long story short, just don't throw away a solid qb without a solid answer. 

 

[LeGOATski]

16 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

This is what I see.

Record: (9-7)	Division: (3-3)
vs AFC: (7-5)	vs NFC: (2-2)
Home: (6-2)	Road: (3-5)
Place: 2nd
Team Rankings: Through Week 16 Total Offense: 29th Passing: 32nd Rushing: 6th Total Defense: 25th Passing: 18th Rushing: 30th   Nuff said! I'm sooooo happy with making the playoffs but this has to be one of the worse teams (statistically)  to ever make a post season. Maybe even more so than the division winning Seahawks a few years back at 7-9. Remember BeastQuake!   Don't care though. We are in and everyone is 0-0 at this point. If we progress, fantastic! If not, we have laid the ground work for a bright future with a promising coach and front office and a boatload of picks.

That's pretty crazy.

[cba fan]

52 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

They should move on from him. That is my point. 

 

Is he an 18M cap hit QB?

I agree with you. He is not worth an 18 mill cap hit.

 

However that is not the options available in regards to TT. His contract is a sunk cost and choices now are

 

18 mill cap hit if keep him.

8.640 cap hit if cut.

 

So it cost 9.36 mill cap hit to keep him for 2018 as a bridge. Less then Cutler and Bradford cost Dolphins/Vikes this year.

 

I agree with you to move on. Unless he goes all Joe Flacco and wins Super Bowl I say move on unless no viable alternative presents itself.

Edited January 2, 2018 by cba fan

[manbeast]

We are in the playoffs because of a team effort.  Tyrod is part of that.  Thank God the team we root for doesn't think like it's fans anymore.  I think that is why they got rid of the players they did.  I think those guys were me guys and finger pointers.  TT did enough to win and didn't do things to lose.  Like Fitzy.  I'll take it and if someone can earn the job over him then great, but he's our QB so get over it.

I think most understand that he isn't great but he isn't a bad QB like some try and make it out to be. How long did it take the Ravens to find a better QB than Dilfer.

Edited January 2, 2018 by manbeast

[John from Riverside]

19 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

What game just one did we win when the defense was having issues and the offense particularly Taylor covered for them maybe 1. 

 

Now how many times did the defense cover for the Offense and taylor not being able to close out a game because they cannot stay on the field. 6

So you are saying that our defense was a strength this year....is that what you are saying?

 

They were better then I expected them to be in year 1 of a defensive switch......but we also lost Marcel and had virtually no pass rush the majority of the year that did not come from Huges

 

but

 

Look at what we have been playing with on offense the majority of the year

 

Our 2nd round rookie had the yips

Mathews could not stay healthy and was not effective when he was

We didnt get Kelvin till later in the year

The OL has had problems with pass protection all year

Tolbert?  I really dont even need to say anything past that.....Cadet comes in and is instantly better when tells you something about our running back stable

Clay has been injured

 

Im not using injuries as a excuse for Tyrod Taylor.....but the fact is that we did trade away guys/lose guys in free agency that were counted in in previous years and THEN we also had injuries on offense.

 

To top it all off.....we inserted another QB in the lineup (which is one of  the main reasons why I think we draft a qb high) and he fell on his face......which tells you something about TT's play.....while not great it at least didnt HURT the team when he was on the field......should we want more then that?   Of course......but there again is that whole "in spite" words you used....he didnt carry but we did not win "in spite"

 

It is what it is.....TT is a bridge qb.

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

So you are saying that our defense was a strength this year....is that what you are saying?

 

They were better then I expected them to be in year 1 of a defensive switch......but we also lost Marcel and had virtually no pass rush the majority of the year that did not come from Huges

 

but

 

Look at what we have been playing with on offense the majority of the year

 

Our 2nd round rookie had the yips

Mathews could not stay healthy and was not effective when he was

We didnt get Kelvin till later in the year

The OL has had problems with pass protection all year

Tolbert?  I really dont even need to say anything past that.....Cadet comes in and is instantly better when tells you something about our running back stable

Clay has been injured

 

Im not using injuries as a excuse for Tyrod Taylor.....but the fact is that we did trade away guys/lose guys in free agency that were counted in in previous years and THEN we also had injuries on offense.

 

To top it all off.....we inserted another QB in the lineup (which is one of  the main reasons why I think we draft a qb high) and he fell on his face......which tells you something about TT's play.....while not great it at least didnt HURT the team when he was on the field......should we want more then that?   Of course......but there again is that whole "in spite" words you used....he didnt carry but we did not win "in spite"

 

It is what it is.....TT is a bridge qb.

The defense absolutely is and was a strength of the team. 

 

And the rest are just recycled excuses over the last three years. 

 

Look what happened in San Fran when they go get a legit QB  

 

he done after this year as he should be

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

The defense absolutely is and was a strength of the team. 

 

And the rest are just recycled excuses over the last three years. 

 

Look what happened in San Fran when they go get a legit QB  

 

he done after this year as he should be

Sorry Bobby....that is just a weak answer.

 

The difference in the recycled answer's is in this particular year they did in fact make the playoffs.

[manbeast]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

The defense absolutely is and was a strength of the team. 

 

And the rest are just recycled excuses over the last three years. 

 

Look what happened in San Fran when they go get a legit QB  

 

he done after this year as he should be

They will bring in competition but Tyrod will be on this team next year.

2 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

Sorry Bobby....that is just a weak answer.

 

The difference in the recycled answer's is in this particular year they did in fact make the playoffs.

I actually think he might be secretly mad about it.

[SaviorPeterman]

I don't think anything changes with this team's offseason plan at QB short of a SB appearance with TT being the reason why we get there.

 

Best case for both TT and Bills is that he plays well enough to steal a win in Jax and ups his trade value in the offseason.

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

I don't think anything changes with this team's offseason plan at QB short of a SB appearance with TT being the reason why we get there.

 

Best case for both TT and Bills is that he plays well enough to steal a win in Jax and ups his trade value in the offseason.

This is entirely possible

 

I am not saying that I expect Tyrod to stay....frankly given the actions of the team (trading away even more talented players like Marcel and Sammy) this could very well be the plan.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I'm not even convinced they will draft a rookie(in the first or second round at least). I could see them saying let's use this draft to fix the lines as opposed to using the picks to move up and take a QB.

 

Im hoping they go after a QB, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they don't. 

 

 

Yeah, unfortunately I could see that too........and they should have learned by now that you are better off in the long run if you take that quarterback.   

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

He was responding to a post in which I also said the offense was bad and even though I didn’t think the d was very good it was still better than the offense as whole over the year. 

 

So maybe read read what I posted first. If this is in fact still in response to what I said. 

Maybe I did.  I said what I said and meant what I said.     

 

The Defense improved over last season.   The Offense .....  the jury is still out.  No, actually its in -  I see pluses and minuses.   more heave on the minus side. 

 

Buffalo vs NE 2017 ....   H 3-23 (ouch it hurts to type that) and A 16-37   [I nailed the game score prediction on the nose for NE*]

Buffalo vs NE 2016 ....   A 16-0 (w/o Brady and injured 3rd stringer)  and  H 25-41

 

Improved Defense and poorer Offense.   

3 points AT HOME!!!!    

[2003Contenders]

40 minutes ago, cba fan said:

I agree with you. He is not worth an 18 mill cap hit.

 

However that is not the options available in regards to TT. His contract is a sunk cost and choices now are

 

18 mill cap hit if keep him.

8.640 cap hit if cut.

 

So it cost 9.36 mill cap hit to keep him for 2018 as a bridge. Less then Cutler and Bradford cost Dolphins/Vikes this year.

 

I agree with you to move on. Unless he goes all Joe Flacco and wins Super Bowl I say move on unless no viable alternative presents itself.

 

Very reasonable observations. Add also, though, that bringing in a viable veteran alternative would in all likelihood cost north of the $18 mil that Tyrod would have received PLUS the $8.64 mil dead cap for releasing him.

 

I honestly do not think what happens in the playoffs will make much difference. The book (both good and bad) is out on Tyrod. While it would be great to see him play out of his mind in the post-season, nothing he has done historically would indicate that is likely to be the case. (Fingers crossed that he does!) 

 

That said, his leadership, occasional big play, mobility and ability to protect the football (as we have seen) can be enough to win the obligatory 9-10 games to contend for a playoff spot each year. I am not going to over-analyze the fact that McD did bench Tyrod against the Chargers. While it certainly indicates that he was hoping to catch lightening in the bottle and explore the potential of an immediate upgrade at the position, we would be remiss if we overlooked the fact that his re-inserting Tyrod into the lineup salvaged the season. My suspicion is that OBD views the situation like many of us: Taylor is not a franchise QB, the team would love to find an upgrade -- but the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

The Bills have something this year in the off-season that they have not had in the past: draft capital. They have the ammunition to move up if they really want to grab one of the top-rated QBs. Conversely, they could sit tight and use the two first rounders and two second round draft picks to hopefully fortify multiple positions (possibly including the QB position). While the team would certainly be better with a true franchise QB, they would also be better with help at OL, LB, DL, and other positions as well.

 

We will have to trust the scouts and coaches to do what makes the most sense for the team as a whole over the long haul.

 

But that is getting WAY ahead of ourselves. After all, there is a playoff game to play on Sunday!

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

54 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

Sorry Bobby....that is just a weak answer.

 

The difference in the recycled answer's is in this particular year they did in fact make the playoffs.

No it is not John.  

 

See my last post

 

D was better,  O was worse 

The Head Coach and the guys he brought in alone improved this team.

 

Tentative Taylor regressed where it matters most  -  Red Zone and points on the board.  14 spots lower

 

2016 Red Zone TD scoring 

Rank 7    64.81%

 

2017 Red Zone TD scoring 

Rank 21    52.27%

 

Now go ahead Taylorites and blame the OC & HC.    The same OC & HC that improved 3rd down conversions!

Edited January 2, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[SaviorPeterman]

24 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

This is entirely possible

 

I am not saying that I expect Tyrod to stay....frankly given the actions of the team (trading away even more talented players like Marcel and Sammy) this could very well be the plan.

 

Regardless of my own views on NP, TT and the Bills QB situation, I've felt for a while that this regime simply doesn't want TT. Hence the reason he was benched against the Chargers and probably would have stayed there if not for NP's debut being such an epic disaster and forcing McD's hand to go back to TT.

 

But things can always change and TT engineering a deep playoff run would be one of them. Because quite frankly I think we all know this defense isn't good enough to carry this team very far in the postseason. Might be good enough to squeak by St Doug and Blake Bortles but we have zero chance against the Pats and Steelers unless we magically find a passing game.