dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2018 Author Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: While I don't like to be Grinch-like and am, in fact, super enthused right now, I feel like I should mention something that concerns me. Someone (PFF?) once did an analysis that determined that turnover differential is a stat that doesn't typically sustain from year to year. Teams that are statistically good (or bad) on offense or defense are likely to be good (or bad) the following year. Turnover differential, on the other hand, seems to go up and down almost randomly from season to season. If we want to continue earning playoff berths, we're going to have to become proficient at something less fickle than turnovers. The Bills' turnover differential in recent history (Going back to when they became a run-heavy team post-Gailey): 2013: +3 2014: +7 2015: +6 2016: +6 2017: +9 They were -13 in 2012. Edited January 1, 2018 by dave mcbride
xsoldier54 Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: While I don't like to be Grinch-like and am, in fact, super enthused right now, I feel like I should mention something that concerns me. Someone (PFF?) once did an analysis that determined that turnover differential is a stat that doesn't typically sustain from year to year. Teams that are statistically good (or bad) on offense or defense are likely to be good (or bad) the following year. Turnover differential, on the other hand, seems to go up and down almost randomly from season to season. If we want to continue earning playoff berths, we're going to have to become proficient at something less fickle than turnovers. Just enjoy the playoff game and stop worrying about stupid ****. They made it. Who cares how they made it? This team will be better next year than this and will continue to improve and be consistent as long as McDermott is HC. This team was not supposed to make the playoffs. People were picking them to win 4 or 5 games. They won 9 and made the playoffs in the first year of this new Coach/GM tandom. I am extremely optimistic about the future of this team, regardless of turnover ratio or any other statistic. 1
hondo in seattle Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: The Bills' turnover differential in recent history (Going back to when they became a run-heavy team post-Gailey): 2013: +3 2014: +7 2015: +6 2016: +6 2017: +9 They were -13 in 2012. I'm not sure this invalidates my point but it is interesting we keep finishing with positive differentials despite changes in scheme and personnel.
Big Blitz Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6. However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records. They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three. **A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. And the Chargers deciding to go with the Korean kicker over Lambo may have cost them at least 1 win. 1
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2018 Author Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: And the Chargers deciding to go with the Korean kicker over Lambo may have cost them at least 1 win. Blair Walsh (Hauschka's replacement) probably cost the Seahawks a full game too overall. He wasn't the full reason they lost yesterday, but he missed a go-ahead 48 yard FG with 30 seconds left yesterday. He was shaky all year -- 72.4 percent. Edited January 1, 2018 by dave mcbride
reddogblitz Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said: Someone is a unhappy camper lol. Thanks, Marvin, Dalton and Boyd. This is the dumbest TAKE ever.but,I expected it. We made the playoffs, but we still suck and are just lucky. So dumb 1 hour ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said: Someone is a unhappy camper lol. Thanks, Marvin, Dalton and Boyd. This is the dumbest TAKE ever.but,I expected it. We made the playoffs, but we still suck and are just lucky. So dumb
FearLess Price Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 48 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: I really hope so man. I have a feeling Marrone is going to be conservative as hell and just try to pound the rock against our D though. This is great stuff to be chatting about though for the first time in along time. Most def. We have a few young ballhawks back there and with Bortles playing as shakey as he does sometimes, Marrone is gonna Marrone. Its gonna come down to, 1. can we run on Jax and 2. stop them from running on us. Neither Bortles or Tyrod are QBs built to play from behind. 1
Domdab99 Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 Last I checked, teams won games by having more points than the other team, and made the playoffs by having one of the top 6 records in the conference. You don't get in with style points because you have a QB who throws for 300 yards a game or a WR who led the league in catches.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6. However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records. They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three. **A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. So?
Niagara Dude Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6. However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records. They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three. **A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. Loser type of post, most are thrilled to death that we are in and you complain. Had we not made it you would have been bitching about our curse, you make your owns breaks.
Just Joshin' Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 So turnovers are luck and can not be coached. Technique, film study and positional play have no impact. Interesting theory.
Billsfan1972 Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said: Loser type of post, most are thrilled to death that we are in and you complain. Had we not made it you would have been bitching about our curse, you make your owns breaks. Actually there were plenty of posters hoping for a 4-12 season and to trust the process. Many wanted Peterman as the QB earlier and no part of the playoffs, because they had so much confidence in McDermott & McBeane...... Too lazy to find them but they were continual complaints about Tyrod and that he may screw it all up and get the Bills in the playoffs and they were unhappy...... Stating facts and statistical #'s is quote interesting. 2 minutes ago, Dalton said: So turnovers are luck and can not be coached. Technique, film study and positional play have no impact. Interesting theory. Pretty sure Peterman agrees with you on that one. The differential was a statistical anomaly and and moreso a reflection of Tyrod holding on to the ball and being conservative on offense.
cba fan Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Turnovers--the only reason the bills made the playoffs The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6. However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records. They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three. **A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. Turnovers--the only reason the..(insert any NFL team name)..made the playoffs. says every NFL team who ever made the playoffs or missed the playoffs. Edited January 1, 2018 by cba fan
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2018 Author Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said: Loser type of post, most are thrilled to death that we are in and you complain. Had we not made it you would have been bitching about our curse, you make your owns breaks. I suggest reading what I wrote and my second post in the thread. Or are we supposed to dispense with any analysis at all and simply shout down anyone who brings in some numbers? This isn't a celebratory instagram site. and I don't kvetch about "curses", so I don't know where you're coming from with that. 38 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: This is the dumbest TAKE ever.but,I expected it. We made the playoffs, but we still suck and are just lucky. So dumb This is the dumbest TAKE ever.but,I expected it. We made the playoffs, but we still suck and are just lucky. So dumb ???? Edited January 1, 2018 by dave mcbride
grb Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said: Correct, look down by Kizer and Simien http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?statisticCategory=PASSING Ravens 9-7 Cowboys 9-7 Chargers 9-7 Seahawks 9-7 Lions 9-7. Lions stink but we are awesome. Made me look. And what did I find? Taylor is 18th in the NFL by the league's passer rating, just ahead of Dak Prescott, Derek Carr, and (yes) Andy Dalton. He sits just behind Matt Ryan. Of course all those other quarterbacks have much more to work with. We can only imagine Taylor playing behind Dak's o-line, throwing to Derek or Matt's targets, or having a deep threat like Green again. Edited January 1, 2018 by grb 1
DaBills51 Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: The Bills were statistically bad or at best mediocre in virtually every category except one: turnovers. They were 6th in raw rushing yardage, but only because they ran it so much. They were actually just 14th in rushing ypa after finishing first last year. Their pythagorean (statistically expected) record was 6.4-9.6. However, their offense surrendered the 6th fewest turnovers in the league and their defense finished 9th in takeaways. Importantly, Tyrod Taylor had the lowest interception percentage (1.0) of any quarterback in the *entire league*. Obviously, that had a material impact on the team's fortunes; teams so weak in so many major categories shouldn't have winning records. They were seventh in turnover differential, and if you take away the statistical blip that was the first half of the Chargers game, they are in the top two or three. **A tip of the cap to Hauschka too; his excellence was probably good for one additional win above expectations too. Signing him was like the Indians getting Andrew Miller in 2016. Found this pretty interesting: "Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. And from 2007 to 2016, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. In the decade of the ’70s, when turnover rates were much higher, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. From 1950 to 2016, the average winning percentage of teams that won the turnover battle was 78%, too." http://www.footballperspective.com/winning-the-turnover-battle/ Really, it's pretty amazing how that percentage hasn't changed at all when you consider all of the changes in the league over that time. People can also downplay Taylor's limited turnovers all they want, but the stats don't lie. I'm going to do a breakdown shortly of all QBs with 30+ games played over the past 3 years to see their turnovers per game (including INTs and Fumbles). My assumption is that Taylor will be at least top 10, and likely top 5. 2
dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2018 Author Posted January 1, 2018 1 minute ago, DaBills51 said: Found this pretty interesting: "Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. And from 2007 to 2016, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. In the decade of the ’70s, when turnover rates were much higher, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. From 1950 to 2016, the average winning percentage of teams that won the turnover battle was 78%, too." http://www.footballperspective.com/winning-the-turnover-battle/ Really, it's pretty amazing how that percentage hasn't changed at all when you consider all of the changes in the league over that time. People can also downplay Taylor's limited turnovers all they want, but the stats don't lie. I'm going to do a breakdown shortly of all QBs with 30+ games played over the past 3 years to see their turnovers per game (including INTs and Fumbles). My assumption is that Taylor will be at least top 10, and likely top 5. That's awesome! Good find.
LA Grant Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 Biggest reason we made the playoffs: Turnover differential -- QB who does not throw INTs, and a RB who rarely fumbles. Not turning the ball over is our offense's biggest strength. It's not sexy but it is effective, especially when you have an elite secondary like we do. IIRC, Hyde and Poyer both have 5 INTs, plus the outstanding play from Tre'Davious White. This is the biggest reason the Bills won 9 games. Biggest reason we almost did not make the playoffs: Lack of talent -- Outside of the secondary, every position on the roster is thin. RB -- Keep McCoy, and our FA pick-ups have been decent, but we need a younger stud RB to split carries with Shady in 2018. QB -- Keep Tyrod, but draft for the franchise guy, and bring in a veteran QB2 like Fitz. When Tyrod struggles, or if he's unwilling to take chances in a 4th quarter situation, take him out. But his game-managing is part of the biggest reason we won games, and that is valuable. Go into Training Camp with four QBs -- Tyrod, Fitz-type, Peterman, and rookie -- and keep the best 3, then trade the one you don't want for his value. WR / TE -- I think we are set after the Benjamin trade... assuming Matthews doesn't return, which I don't think he's really a good fit here even though I really liked him in Philly, you need another guy like Thompson -- a true downfield threat. OL -- we need some help on the interior, but we're not in terrible shape. Eric Wood is old & not good, Incognito is old & his play is declining, and starting guys like Vlad Ducasse and Jordan Mills isn't ideal. If you believe the trade rumors, it seems like the organization wants to move on from Cordy but he's the best player on the OL so I hope they keep him, and Dion Dawkins looked good. Need more talent, tho. DL -- we need talent across the board. Kyle is done after this year, god bless him. Hughes had a down year in sacks and pressure, but at least he cut down on the penalties. Shaq Lawson didn't impress, wonder if he would be better suited for OLB? LB -- Matt Milano looks great. Preston Brown is solid, as was Lorenzo. But going to need at least one new starter here. Secondary -- best position on the team, we're pretty set, just add some depth.
Doc Brown Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) After suffering three straight blowouts we had I thought of this quote by Parcells. "I talked to the team a lot about staying power. You never find out if you have that until you've been beaten down a few times." Point differential aside, this team did a great job of staying focused after the Chargers game and McDermott is a large reason for that. Edited January 1, 2018 by Doc Brown
BADOLBILZ Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 16 minutes ago, DaBills51 said: Found this pretty interesting: "Last year, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. And from 2007 to 2016, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. In the decade of the ’70s, when turnover rates were much higher, teams that won the turnover battle won 78% of their games. From 1950 to 2016, the average winning percentage of teams that won the turnover battle was 78%, too." http://www.footballperspective.com/winning-the-turnover-battle/ Really, it's pretty amazing how that percentage hasn't changed at all when you consider all of the changes in the league over that time. People can also downplay Taylor's limited turnovers all they want, but the stats don't lie. I'm going to do a breakdown shortly of all QBs with 30+ games played over the past 3 years to see their turnovers per game (including INTs and Fumbles). My assumption is that Taylor will be at least top 10, and likely top 5. I brought this up in a thread earlier in the week........it's the most broadly accurate stat wrt wins and losses. Add time-tested now. Some years certain stats will be more representative of the playoff teams........but over the long haul not turning the ball over and collecting turnovers on D is the simplest recipe for winning games. The Bills were GREAT at not turning the ball over and very good at getting turnovers this season.......that's why they are in.
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