Is Kyle Williams leadership undermined by media fawning?

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I've often felt that despite the fact that Bills players really like Kyle Williams, that he has surprisingly little impact on the temperature of this team as a leader.

 

My suspicion is that the fact that the fans and the media rarely single him out when things go wrong probably tamps his impact in the room.

 

I mean.........if Marcel Dareus were on the team when the Jets/Saints/Chargers ran thru the Bills DL at a franchise historic pace....Dareus would have been excoriated by the media and fans.

 

The reality is that KW has been bad at times during his career...........at times when the Bills lack "dudes" on the DL his upfield style creates holes and exposes LB's...........he's not a guy who can carry any defensive line.......he's very good at what he does.........but not all aspects of DL play...............AND YET......he's held in a kind of "untouchable" HOF esteem by fans and media.

 

You have to wonder if that preferred treatment..........even though it's really just outside the locker room.........doesn't make teammates kinda' turn a deaf ear to him.........like he isn't really in the same struggle that they are.  

 

[boyst]

i can appreciate this sentiment even if i do not hold it true.

 

the same could be said about Aaron Williams in years past and McCoy and Wood this year.  McCoy had a few terrible games this year and it may have been linked to play calling, but they were bad.

 

Woods is loved by the media and never called out, much like Williams.

 

Both of them have been two of the most overrated players this year.  Wood is not fit to start.  Kyle Williams can still start but surrounded by terrible and not held accountable.  Our LB's sell him out every play by not filling the gap, shooting the gap or scraping to cover.  Williams gets left in the wind by double teams and linebackers go unblocked and ineffective lost in the warsh unable to get to the runner/ball.

[BringBackOrton]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I've often felt that despite the fact that Bills players really like Kyle Williams, that he has surprisingly little impact on the temperature of this team as a leader.

 

My suspicion is that the fact that the fans and the media rarely single him out when things go wrong probably tamps his impact in the room.

 

I mean.........if Marcel Dareus were on the team when the Jets/Saints/Chargers ran thru the Bills DL at a franchise historic pace....Dareus would have been excoriated by the media and fans.

 

The reality is that KW has been bad at times during his career...........at times when the Bills lack "dudes" on the DL his upfield style creates holes and exposes LB's...........he's not a guy who can carry any defensive line.......he's very good at what he does.........but not all aspects of DL play...............AND YET......he's held in a kind of "untouchable" HOF esteem by fans and media.

 

You have to wonder if that preferred treatment..........even though it's really just outside the locker room.........doesn't make teammates kinda' turn a deaf ear to him.........like he isn't really in the same struggle that they are.  

 

Eddie Yarbrough, in his first year here, has done nothing but sing the praises of Kyle and all but beg him not to retire.

 

As for deaf ears, I don't think it has anything to do with his untouchable status.  Moreso, it almost certainly has to do with how long you've been here and how many times you've heard the inspiring speech only to go out there and choke.  How many times has Jerry Hughes heard KW try to inspire the team on the way to a .500 or worse season?  Eventually, you're going to tune that out.  

 

You saw the same thing with Fred Jackson.  The young guys who haven't been tainted by the Bills all find it quite inspirational.  The old guys who think the Pats are their daddies and that they aren't going anywhere nod their heads while yawning.

 

Kyle has never been a part of winning anything in the NFL.  That hurts too.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Someone is bound to turn this into a racial discussion, just wait and see.

 

Regardless, KW is a team leader and he is respected, for that he does have value beyond just play on the field.  Also Marcel was the 3rd pick in the draft, got a stupid large second contract, more is expected and more should be demanded from his play.  Third, Marcell has gotten into trouble a few times, missed a team bus etc., KW to my knowledge has been a model citizen. Finally, at this point KW is old, again expectations are lower. MD should be in the prime of his career.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

Eddie Yarbrough, in his first year here, has done nothing but sing the praises of Kyle and all but beg him not to retire.

 

As for deaf ears, I don't think it has anything to do with his untouchable status.  Moreso, it almost certainly has to do with how long you've been here and how many times you've heard the inspiring speech only to go out there and choke.  How many times has Jerry Hughes heard KW try to inspire the team on the way to a .500 or worse season?  Eventually, you're going to tune that out.  

 

You saw the same thing with Fred Jackson.  The young guys who haven't been tainted by the Bills all find it quite inspirational.  The old guys who think the Pats are their daddies and that they aren't going anywhere nod their heads while yawning.

 

Kyle has never been a part of winning anything in the NFL.  That hurts too.

 

 

I agree that's probably a significant part of it now..........I've just never felt he's EVER impacted the room the way you'd think...........and during that 3 game stretch I think the whole defense except 3D White was hang-doggin' it........including Hyde and Poyer who have been otherwise great this year.  

 

 

 

[Augie]

No one I know of has ever questioned how hard Kyle worked or how much he cared. THAT is the difference to me. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I agree that's probably a significant part of it now..........I've just never felt he's EVER impacted the room the way you'd think...........and during that 3 game stretch I think the whole defense except 3D White was hang-doggin' it........including Hyde and Poyer who have been otherwise great this year.  

 

 

 

I'm sure if you looked around the league, there are a handful of guys in similar boats.  Joe Thomas, for one.

 

Honest question, when was the last year you didn't see the Bills hand-dogging it one or two games?  I can't even remember.  Maybe 2014?

 

The culture of this team has sucked.  

[Gugny]

15 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

i can appreciate this sentiment even if i do not hold it true.

 

the same could be said about Aaron Williams in years past and McCoy and Wood this year.  McCoy had a few terrible games this year and it may have been linked to play calling, but they were bad.

 

Woods is loved by the media and never called out, much like Williams.

 

Both of them have been two of the most overrated players this year.  Wood is not fit to start.  Kyle Williams can still start but surrounded by terrible and not held accountable.  Our LB's sell him out every play by not filling the gap, shooting the gap or scraping to cover.  Williams gets left in the wind by double teams and linebackers go unblocked and ineffective lost in the warsh unable to get to the runner/ball.

 

I think Wood and K Williams are both overrated as players and leaders and they are popular with Bills fans because they're big white guys who've been on the team for a really long time.

[RoyBatty is alive]

8 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I think Wood and K Williams are both overrated as players and leaders and they are popular with Bills fans because they're big white guys who've been on the team for a really long time.

Skin color aside, there are no other players than those two that even come close to their seniority on the Bills I am going to guess they both have2x as many years with the Bills as the next closest player and both spent their entire career here, simple fact.  WHo are Bills fans supposed to gravitate to, LeSean McCoy or Tyrod Taylor that have been here what 3-4 years and came from other teams?

 

Player that has probably gotten the "most love" here in the past decade has been Fred Jackson so i think that severely stresses the race argument.

Edited December 30, 2017 by RoyBatty is alive
add on

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

Kyle Williams is not supposed to be or built to be the centerpiece of the dline. He is short and barely at 300lbs. He is more of a pass rusher from the middle when the bigger Nose tackle type absorbs two blockers. That being said you cannot question his heart and his motor and ability to make tackles down the field. I don't think he's overrated he just isn't being used properly right now. He's made the pro bowl multiple times and is respected across the league. He is nearing the end of his career and may well have lost a step. He still leads the speeches and even pumps the guys up.

[BringBackOrton]

8 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I think Wood and K Williams are both overrated as players and leaders and they are popular with Bills fans because they're big white guys who've been on the team for a really long time.

Fred Jackson was also in that category.  Race has nothing to do with it.

 

But you're Gugny, so I know your game.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Someone is bound to turn this into a racial discussion, just wait and see.

 

Regardless, KW is a team leader and he is respected, for that he does have value beyond just play on the field.  Also Marcel was the 3rd pick in the draft, got a stupid large second contract, more is expected and more should be demanded from his play.  Third, Marcell has gotten into trouble a few times, missed a team bus etc., KW to my knowledge has been a model citizen. Finally, at this point KW is old, again expectations are lower. MD should be in the prime of his career.

 

It's not a racial issue.   It may affect his perception some with the mostly white fan base and mostly white media..........but it's more about not getting held to the same standard as others and as Boyst said it's more about playing favorites.   FJax was equally or more loved and he was flawed too(fumbled A LOT at the end).

 

You do hit on a good point though...........and that is justification.   Fans feel that acutely singling out higher pedigreed/paid players is entirely justified and I am not sure players feel as strongly about that.   They look at it more from a job responsibility standpoint, IMO.  

 

The thing about the Dareus hate..........Dareus is actually a guy who CAN carry a DL and can excel in all aspects of DL play.    His presence alone can turn a bad run defense to a good one.  

 

KW is not nearly as impactful.

 

That isn't weighed into the equation though............and if most people had a similar situation in their workplace they wouldn't appreciate the kind of sphere of protection that a KW is surrounded by despite the fact that they really like the guy.    That IMO isolates KW a bit from the struggle. 

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's not a racial issue.   It may affect his perception some with the mostly white fan base and mostly white media..........but it's more about not getting held to the same standard as others and as Boyst said it's more about playing favorites.   FJax was equally or more loved and he was flawed too(fumbled A LOT at the end).

 

You do hit on a good point though...........and that is justification.   Fans feel that acutely singling out higher pedigreed/paid players is entirely justified and I am not sure players feel as strongly about that.   They look at it more from a job responsibility standpoint, IMO.  

 

The thing about the Dareus hate..........Dareus is actually a guy who CAN carry a DL and can excel in all aspects of DL play.    His presence alone can turn a bad run defense to a good one.  

 

KW is not nearly as impactful.

 

That isn't weighed into the equation though............and if most people had a similar situation in their workplace they wouldn't appreciate the kind of sphere of protection that a KW is surrounded by despite the fact that they really like the guy.    That IMO isolates KW a bit from the struggle. 

It all comes down to expectations.

 

Kyle and Freddy weren't expected to be much and ended up being good players.  They never got paid like superstars.  That kind of "against all odds" story buys you near limitless goodwill in sports.

 

Dareus was expected to be top 3 at his position for a decade, and he didn't live up to that.  Whether those expectations were justified, nothing riles a fanbase and media presence up more than an nonperforming previously heralded player.  They love to lift you up to tear you down.  

 

Kyle and Dareus have almost the exact opposite circumstances surrounding them, which is why one gets crucified, and the other gets a pass.  It is what it is.  

Edited December 30, 2017 by jmc12290

[buffaloboyinATL]

I don't agree with the OP's conjecture. I think this Defense would run through a brick wall for KW. He was never the most physically gifted player on the field but he has always made the most of what he has.

 

I don't believe anyone has mistaken the respect he has been given by the fans, media and other teams for being sheltered or coddled. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

44 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

i can appreciate this sentiment even if i do not hold it true.

 

the same could be said about Aaron Williams in years past and McCoy and Wood this year.  McCoy had a few terrible games this year and it may have been linked to play calling, but they were bad.

 

Woods is loved by the media and never called out, much like Williams.

 

Both of them have been two of the most overrated players this year.  Wood is not fit to start.  Kyle Williams can still start but surrounded by terrible and not held accountable.  Our LB's sell him out every play by not filling the gap, shooting the gap or scraping to cover.  Williams gets left in the wind by double teams and linebackers go unblocked and ineffective lost in the warsh unable to get to the runner/ball.

2

harsh but I can't argue against it, not sure how much EW does in terms of calling out blocking coverage (and getting snap count correct), some centers in the NFL are pretty damn valuable beyond their mere blocking ability.  That is the only reason i can think of why they extending him when they did.  He isnt going to get any better that is for sure.

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's not a racial issue.   It may affect his perception some with the mostly white fan base and mostly white media..........but it's more about not getting held to the same standard as others and as Boyst said it's more about playing favorites.   FJax was equally or more loved and he was flawed too(fumbled A LOT at the end).

 

You do hit on a good point though...........and that is justification.   Fans feel that acutely singling out higher pedigreed/paid players is entirely justified and I am not sure players feel as strongly about that.   They look at it more from a job responsibility standpoint, IMO.  

 

The thing about the Dareus hate..........Dareus is actually a guy who CAN carry a DL and can excel in all aspects of DL play.    His presence alone can turn a bad run defense to a good one.  

 

KW is not nearly as impactful.

 

That isn't weighed into the equation though............and if most people had a similar situation in their workplace they wouldn't appreciate the kind of sphere of protection that a KW is surrounded by despite the fact that they really like the guy.    That IMO isolates KW a bit from the struggle. 

 

 

It’s come to me, finally, the Bills need to hire you as the football czar.  I’m sure you will have instant success.

[Blaise321]

57 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Someone is bound to turn this into a racial discussion, just wait and see.

 

Regardless, KW is a team leader and he is respected, for that he does have value beyond just play on the field.  Also Marcel was the 3rd pick in the draft, got a stupid large second contract, more is expected and more should be demanded from his play.  Third, Marcell has gotten into trouble a few times, missed a team bus etc., KW to my knowledge has been a model citizen. Finally, at this point KW is old, again expectations are lower. MD should be in the prime of his career.

 

As it turns out, that would be you. The fact you even brought race up will initiate some to respond in some form or another. 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Blaise321 said:

 

As it turns out, that would be you. The fact you even brought race up will initiate some to respond in some form or another. 

 

^^ Initiated response ^^

[fansince88]

46 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's not a racial issue.   It may affect his perception some with the mostly white fan base and mostly white media..........but it's more about not getting held to the same standard as others and as Boyst said it's more about playing favorites.   FJax was equally or more loved and he was flawed too(fumbled A LOT at the end).

 

You do hit on a good point though...........and that is justification.   Fans feel that acutely singling out higher pedigreed/paid players is entirely justified and I am not sure players feel as strongly about that.   They look at it more from a job responsibility standpoint, IMO.  

 

The thing about the Dareus hate..........Dareus is actually a guy who CAN carry a DL and can excel in all aspects of DL play.    His presence alone can turn a bad run defense to a good one.  

 

KW is not nearly as impactful.

 

That isn't weighed into the equation though............and if most people had a similar situation in their workplace they wouldn't appreciate the kind of sphere of protection that a KW is surrounded by despite the fact that they really like the guy.    That IMO isolates KW a bit from the struggle. 

Well, That's great news! Nothing worse than an minority of majorities or a majority of minorities!

[RoyBatty is alive]

31 minutes ago, Blaise321 said:

 

As it turns out, that would be you. The fact you even brought race up will initiate some to respond in some form or another. 

It came up because I suggested the possibility?   Right,  you think that you are naive.