Sammy who?

[The Now Moment]

21 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Separate the cost from the player.  The picks were from 3 years ago.  Scrambling to get value because you spent a 2014 1st is silly.

 

We could have had Watkins for 2 seasons, AAV less than $9M over that time, with a decent chance of re-signing him. That's not that bad.

 

Look at you hoping Gaines turns around his injury history, willing to shell out big bucks to him in spite of it.  I have a question. Why is that different from Sammy?  If Gaines walks for "nothing," or if KB walks for "nothing," what did we really gain?

You see I didn't say I was willing to pay him the big bucks just like I wasn't willing to pay Sammy what surely would have been big bucks.  I said a decent contract with an injury clause (playing time incentives).  I'd rather have potentially two starters than a bloated contract for a receiver that had trouble staying on the field here and was disgruntled.

[Billsfan1972]

Revisionist history.....  If the Bills were high on Gaines (who was not going to start for the Rams, they could have gotten him for next to nothing.  The Bills wanted a second rounder for Watkins because they were in tank mode before the season even started.  That's what turned me off......

 

Watkins was signed for 2017 and certainly there is this weird thing in the NFL where players get paid what they are worth on the open market.  How dare someone get paid "fair" market value.

 

Those who are banking on the Bills in 2020, good luck......  I was about the Bills in 2017.

 

There is no doubt the Bills would have been better with Watkins, Darby & Dareus this year.

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Revisionist history.....  If the Bills were high on Gaines (who was not going to start for the Rams, they could have gotten him for next to nothing.  The Bills wanted a second rounder for Watkins because they were in tank mode before the season even started.  That's what turned me off......

 

Watkins was signed for 2017 and certainly there is this weird thing in the NFL where players get paid what they are worth on the open market.  How dare someone get paid "fair" market value.

 

Those who are banking on the Bills in 2020, good luck......  I was about the Bills in 2017.

 

There is no doubt the Bills would have been better with Watkins, Darby & Dareus this year.

I'm more for long term success than instant gratification of one year where we may have gotten in the playoffs.  Just my opinion.  Sometimes you gotta make business moves.  

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

You see I didn't say I was willing to pay him the big bucks just like I wasn't willing to pay Sammy what surely would have been big bucks.  I said a decent contract with an injury clause (playing time incentives).  I'd rather have potentially two starters than a bloated contract for a receiver that had trouble staying on the field here and was disgruntled.

Disgruntled?  If he was it was because he did not get enough targets, which was obvious based on the stats.  

 

Pre-season game #2 they targeted him repeatedly and he caught the pass.

 

Very easy to appease a good player, feed him the ball as long as he performs.  Would have been pretty simple and helped TT, McCoy and the offense. 

[The Now Moment]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Disgruntled?  If he was it was because he did not get enough targets, which was obvious based on the stats.  

 

Pre-season game #2 they targeted him repeatedly and he caught the pass.

 

Very easy to appease a good player, feed him the ball as long as he performs.  Would have been pretty simple and helped TT, McCoy and the offense. 

I'd just rather have team first players.  He said it himself that he was selfish here.  Just sounded like a player that was on an average team that was only looking out for himself.  Not what I'm looking for in a player.  I want the Kyle Williams teammates and the Richie Incognito teammates (while he has been on Buffalo not Miami).  Look at Sammy now, doesn't get targets but he keeps his mouth shut.  He didn't do that here and I think us trading him was a reality check for him.

[stinky finger]

14 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

Sammy Watkins has elite talent.

 

That's a fact.

yeeeaaahhh....who has not lived up to expectations.

 

you forgot that part.

14 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

Yes, that would have been perfect.  We win 1-2 more games this year to make playoffs, get an equal or better replacement in FA or draft.  Perfect.

 

 

Quite an assumption here. 

 

oh - and I doubt this assumption.

14 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

So far, yeah.  Thing is, he's on the Rams if he puts it together.  He's 24 years old.

Well there - at least you've come around.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

Matthews was widely regarded as a more productive and better player on this board at the time of this trade.

By stupid people. No one who watched Matthews and Sammy thought they were comparable players.

 

we got rid of Tyrod's one passing strength, throwing deep, for a bunch of slow slot WRs.  Terrible front office decision.

[stinky finger]

12 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Marcell Dareus AFC South Division Champion, Sammy Watkins NFC West Division Champion, Ronald Darby NFC East Division Champion.  

 

Process That!

These teams weren't performing at that level prior to their arrival?

 

Darby hurt the majority of the season.

 

Marcell walked into a ready made situation as did SW. 

12 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Yeah Yeah.  Try to rationalize their contributions away.  

 

While I'm at it Kevon Seymour and Kaelin Clay are also playoff bound. 

Yep - as you proclaim them as the reason why. 

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I'd just rather have team first players.  He said it himself that he was selfish here.  Just sounded like a player that was on an average team that was only looking out for himself.  Not what I'm looking for in a player.  I want the Kyle Williams teammates and the Richie Incognito teammates (while he has been on Buffalo not Miami).  Look at Sammy now, doesn't get targets but he keeps his mouth shut.  He didn't do that here and I think us trading him was a reality check for him.

How naive are you?  Sounds great, but on a non-playoff team I bet almost everyone in a skill position wants the ball and to put up stats...... 

 

Geez even defensive backs and cornerbacks we see fighting over an interception or intercepting a fourth down pass and costing their teams 20 yards all for stats.

 

How the heck can an offensive/defensive lineman be "me first"?

[stinky finger]

10 hours ago, Commonsense said:

 

Mhmm let me try.

 

Here Dareus was paid and expected to be the impact player on defense. He wasn't. In Jacksonville he is about the 4th best Dlineman and is now a role player.

 

Sammy Watkins is the 4th recieiving option behind Woods, Kupp and Gurley. I know I know poor Sammy faces number 1 corners...and no teams game plan to stop TG.

 

As usual poor Sammy.

 

Ronald Darby missed 8 games, Philly was already well on their way. 

 

Yeah but 26 copy paste said.........

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, inaugural balls said:

These teams weren't performing at that level prior to their arrival?

 

Darby hurt the majority of the season.

 

Marcell walked into a ready made situation as did SW. 

The Rams were 4-12. The Jags one weakness on defense was run defense. It was instantly improved after Dareus got their. Darby is the Eagles #1 cb.

 

we traded really talented players and replaced them with JAGs.  It could be the difference between us ending a 17 year drought and missing the playoffs again in one of the worst AFCs in a long time.

[The Now Moment]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How naive are you?  Sounds great, but on a non-playoff team I bet almost everyone in a skill position wants the ball and to put up stats...... 

 

Geez even defensive backs and cornerbacks we see fighting over an interception or intercepting a fourth down pass and costing their teams 20 yards all for stats.

 

How the heck can an offensive/defensive lineman be "me first"?

I just compared Buffalo Sammy to LA Sammy.  They have two different attitudes IMO

[Fan in Chicago]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

 

 

I am all about drafting a quarterback in 2018. I also want to draft OL and DL. I hope that it happens but the Bills tend to focus on defensive backs and running backs in the draft. This is what is to blame for the Bills not making the playoffs to a much larger degree than is TT. Sadly, it seems to never end.

 

 

 

 

The Bills havent prioritized DB and RB in the top rounds lately. And the when they chose Tre White, you have to admit it was a great choice. 

As for missing the playoffs, yes QB is one of the top reasons but also coaching. In last few years, Marrone chose the wrong OC, Pegulas chose the wrong HC in Ryan and his circus. 

Plenty of blame to go around. McBeane also havent made great personnel decisions this year (Sammy, Matthews) but the net results are yet to be seen. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

I just compared Buffalo Sammy to LA Sammy.  They have two different attitudes IMO

I never heard anyone complaining about Sammy in Buffalo. He said he needs the ball more and the coaches agreed.  He and Shady are game changers and should get the ball a lot.

 

our offense is painful to watch. 

[What a Tuel]

10 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

The Bills havent prioritized DB and RB in the top rounds lately. And the when they chose Tre White, you have to admit it was a great choice. 

As for missing the playoffs, yes QB is one of the top reasons but also coaching. In last few years, Marrone chose the wrong OC, Pegulas chose the wrong HC in Ryan and his circus. 

Plenty of blame to go around. McBeane also havent made great personnel decisions this year (Sammy, Matthews) but the net results are yet to be seen. 

 

I think we need to prioritize getting a QB now. In the last 18 years, a decent QB probably means a 2-3 game swing each year. A 2 game swing means we likely make the playoffs 3 times (counting this year). A 3 game swing means we contend for the playoffs 10 other times. 

 

I think that type of swing is realistic in my opinion anyway.  Just get our 20 year QB. Do that and there will be many years of "building through the draft".

 

Edit: And then we won't be "building to trade them before they are released to free agency"

 

Edit2: I know, I know, it seems super obvious and easier said than done. But I am sensing a lot of detraction from the goal of getting our QB next year. That is troubling to me.

Edited December 30, 2017 by What a Tuel

[The Now Moment]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I never heard anyone complaining about Sammy in Buffalo. He said he needs the ball more and the coaches agreed.  He and Shady are game changers and should get the ball a lot.

 

our offense is painful to watch. 

I just think it was more of a distraction from his frustration with his injuries than anything.  He said how selfish he was here and he said that he was afraid his teammates here thought he was selfish.  Whether they were or not who knows.  Sammy isn't getting the ball as much as I'm sure he'd like in LA but he isn't complaining.

 

I think the trade gave him a reality check

Edited December 30, 2017 by Buffalo30

[stinky finger]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Rams were 4-12. The Jags one weakness on defense was run defense. It was instantly improved after Dareus got their. Darby is the Eagles #1 cb.

 

we traded really talented players and replaced them with JAGs.  It could be the difference between us ending a 17 year drought and missing the playoffs again in one of the worst AFCs in a long time.

They're good players, no doubt. Are you saying these teams aren't in the same position without them? I believe they are. 

 

Are you also saying that had they remained we undoubtedly make the playoffs?

 

We had them together for years and they proved they weren't capable of a playoff run.

 

Yet here we are - without these 3 "difference makers" - with one week to go and quite alive for a playoff spot.

[Fan in Chicago]

5 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

 

 

Edit2: I know, I know, it seems super obvious and easier said than done. But I am sensing a lot of detraction from the goal of getting our QB next year. That is troubling to me.

Not sure I am detecting that as much as you are. QB needs to be the single biggest priority this upcoming offseason, bar none.

[What a Tuel]

3 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

They're good players, no doubt. Are you saying these teams aren't in the same position without them? I believe they are. 

 

Are you also saying that had they remained we undoubtedly make the playoffs?

 

We had them together for years and they proved they weren't capable of a playoff run.

 

Yet here we are - without these 3 "difference makers" - with one week to go and quite alive for a playoff spot.

 

I don't want to put words in their mouth, but my response to that would be if they are good enough for playoff bound, talented teams, then why are they not good enough for the bills to retain?

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Not sure I am detecting that as much as you are. QB needs to be the single biggest priority this upcoming offseason, bar none.

 

I hope you are right! 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, inaugural balls said:

They're good players, no doubt. Are you saying these teams aren't in the same position without them? I believe they are. 

 

Are you also saying that had they remained we undoubtedly make the playoffs?

 

We had them together for years and they proved they weren't capable of a playoff run.

 

Yet here we are - without these 3 "difference makers" - with one week to go and quite alive for a playoff spot.

I think if the Rams didn't have Sammy, they are a much different team.  Sammy is their one deep threat and opens things up for Gurley. He draws the #1 cb and allows Woods and Kupp easier matchup underneath.  His impact goes beyond numbers and would have had a big impact on our offense as well.  Julio Jones doesn't get 150 yards every game but makes an impact just being on the field.

 

Dareus was the cherry on top for the Jags.  Our run defense has sucked since we traded him.  If they really wanted to win now, you keep MD. A 6th rounder would have been there after the season.  And The Eagles were good without Darby but he will be more important now without Wentz.

 

of all the moves, I'm fine with Darby because we did a good job replacing him.  But if we miss the playoffs, our passing attack and run defense would be major reasons why.  And we had 2 good players that we got rid of it.  That would be tough to shallow.