Is the NFL fixed or is it influenced in any way shape or form besides strictly who the better team is

[Doc Brown]

It's not fixed, but the good teams will usually get the close calls.  Specifically Seattle and New England for some reason. 

[Wily Dog]

The premise that , why don't the owners of all the teams call the NFL on the carpet if they think that one team is getting benefits that their teams do not get is because all of the owners don't care. Most of the owners are riding the golden cow and as long as their profit line is okay , they are okay. Jerry Jones said a very telling remark when he was battling Goodel and Blank on Elliott's suspensions. It was a remark about penalties that the Cowboys got after he pursued the suspension, They were one of the favored teams and we haven't heard much out of Jones since. As pogo said "every one is crreated equal but, some are more equal than others"

Edited December 28, 2017 by Wily Dog
spelling

[Chimp]

5 hours ago, westerndecline said:

They havent been caught cheating again ...

 

You do realize that they've already been caught three times right it's not a conspiracy it's not speculation that actually happened and Goodell conspire to destroy the evidence so did Brady what you're talking about has already happened and now with everything we know that has happened in the past we have some random guy from New York overturning calls in favor of the Patriots that's not a red flag to you

Arguing with a jackass is never a good idea man.

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, westerndecline said:

 

 

NBA referees disagree with you it's documented fact that they were fixing or influencing games

And I don't give a flying f*** when anyone says that 1998 game in Foxboro was complete b******* and I'm still bitter about it on that day they took over the Rivalry for me as the most hated team of the Buffalo Bills not Miami anymore

Tht loss kept us from a home game vs miami and possible serious run...

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but that argument supports my argument far better than yours.

 

What happened when those NBA refs did that? It came out. And that's with a limited amount of basketball refs. For the NFL to influence games the way you're implying, all refs would have to be in on it. Know how long that secret, with lke a hundred guys in on it would last? Like a week if they were lucky.

 

As for any games being affected by bad refereeing? Sure.  Far more though are affected by bad playing than bad refereeing. Mistakes are made by any large group of human beings at a fairly high rate. It's part of being human. 

 

Errors, yeah. Huge shadowy conspiracies? No. It's nonsense.

 

 

7 hours ago, westerndecline said:

It seems to me you want to ignore what the Patriots did three times beforehand in the past and then simply say no there's nothing strange about what's going on in New York overturning calls that shouldn't be turned over in one teams favored nothing to see here

 

 

Apples and oranges.

 

Do teams cheat to try to get a competitive advantage? Yeah. The Pats particularly but it happens a lot. And they get caught a lot but surely not every time. Nobody denies this kind of cheating goes on.

 

But that isn't even close to the same thing as the NFL itself engaging in a wide-scale conspiracy to favor other teams. It just isn't. The risk/reward ratio for each team cheating for competitive advantage is just about infinitely better than it would be for a wide-ranging game-fixing conspiracy that would destroy the reputation of football for years at a time when the game is in an extremely vulnerable position anyway.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Thurman#1

[westerndecline]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Sorry, but that argument supports my argument far better than yours.

 

What happened when those NBA refs did that? It came out. And that's with a limited amount of basketball refs. For the NFL to influence games the way you're implying, all refs would have to be in on it. Know how long that secret, with lke a hundred guys in on it would last? Like a week if they were lucky.

 

As for any games being affected by bad refereeing? Sure.  Far more though are affected by bad playing than bad refereeing. Mistakes are made by any large group of human beings at a fairly high rate. It's part of being human. 

 

Errors, yeah. Huge shadowy conspiracies? No. It's nonsense.

 

 

 

 

Apples and oranges.

 

Do teams cheat to try to get a competitive advantage? Yeah. The Pats particularly but it happens a lot. And they get caught a lot but surely not every time. Nobody denies this kind of cheating goes on.

 

But that isn't even close to the same thing as the NFL itself engaging in a wide-scale conspiracy to favor other teams. It just isn't. The risk/reward ratio for each team cheating for competitive advantage is just about infinitely better than it would be for a wide-ranging game-fixing conspiracy that would destroy the reputation of football for years at a time when the game is in an extremely vulnerable position anyway.

Again

 

Nobody said there's some widespread conspiracy or that its wwf fixed....

 

So youre wrong there.

 

It's also not a widespread conspiracy or speculation or fake or Monday Morning Quarterback the Patriots did cheat numerous times in fact the NFL didn't tell us about it Spygate in the beginning until the Patriots did it again , AFTER THEY WERE WARNED TO.STOP...

 

Then Josh McDaniels from the New England Patriots coaching tree tries to do the same Spygate stuff in Denver and I forget the name but he's affiliated with Josh McDaniels and Matt Walsh gets banned from the NFL forever....

 

Again not speculation not a widespread conspiracy Caddell destroy the evidence Brady destroy the evidence we NFL actually did a cover-up

 

So youre wrong there.

 

As for the NBA getting caught as far as the rest the guy who got caught said it's been going on it's still going on so I don't know what the f*** you're talking about it's also been admitted by the NBA that they show favoritism towards star players this is a fact this isn't a conspiracy theory it's not speculation on Monday morning qb.

Its a fact

 

So.youre wrong again

 

As for conspiracies always being caught that's not true man it's simply not true in fact most of the fairies activity goes on notice especially when there's millions of dollars on the line

 

So youre wrong there...

 

Notice to nobody is saying it has to be the refs nobody saying it has to be the owner's nobody saying it has to be anything all we're saying is that the statistical probability that the Patriots can keep winning at this pace year after year is highly highly improbable and in fact raised as many red flags Belichick is a good show Coach but he ain't that good and Tom Brady is 40 years old and I like I said I guarantee you you he's using HGH there's no way of shoulder should be holding on

 

I will simply End by saying this dude I don't trust that River on guy I just don't and for all the calls that he's randomly came in and overturned it's all ended up helping the Patriots you couple that with what's happened in the past and it stinks to high heaven that's all I'm going to say dude even Patriots fans are in admitting it 

[Gordio]

23 hours ago, mjt328 said:

I don't believe the NFL is completely "fixed" - at least not to the extend that the WWE and professional wrestling is totally scripted for a particular outcome. 

 

But that doesn't mean I believe the league is completely fair and free of outside influence.  If there is a dollar to be made by swaying a play or even a game, it's highly likely that someone is trying (if not succeeding) at doing just that.

 

The MLB turned its back on steroid abuse for over a decade, because players chasing home run records was big business.  In the NBA, a referee was caught by the FBI betting on playoff games.  Since being convicted, he has alleged that ALL of his colleagues do the same.  This summer, he claimed the league was trying to let the Cavaliers win to extend the Finals.  When the Patriots were caught cheating the first time (Spygate), the NFL responded by immediately destroying the evidence, giving the team a slap on the wrist and doing everything in their power to downplay the incident.

 

Even if there isn't an NFL mandate that states - "Must help New England win the Super Bowl" - you better believe the refs are pushed to protect the league's marquee QBs like Tom Brady.  Maybe there isn't a giant conspiracy to assist the Steelers or Packers - but you would be foolish to think these officials are not gambling or playing fantasy football.  And with the money involved, organized crime is certainly entrenched behind the scenes.

 

 

 

Well stated sir.  If history has taught us anything, it is when there is money involved, big money in the NFL's case, there is usually some underhanded behind the scenes stuff going on. 

[Chris66]

Maybe the other owners are pissed at Pegula for keeping the team in Buffalo. Maybe they are also pissed because he seems in no hurry to build a stadium. Maybe it has less to do with NE and more to do with screwing the Bills.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It's impossible to fix a sports game in today's world. 

 

Humans make mistakes. Mistakes are part of the game. The replay official however should be fired. That wasn't a mistake. I don't think it was him trying to influence the outcome of the game, but just incompetence. He can't do his job. It's an easy job to do IMO. 

[mjt328]

Some of you are thinking about this too hard.

 

Yes.  A vast, league-wide conspiracy would probably be tough to pull off.  Do 32 billionaires and Roger Goodell meet in secret every spring, then decide which team to vault to the Super Bowl that season?  Probably not.

 

But is it possible that certain owners (lets' just say Robert Kraft) has some key officials in his pocket?  That's certainly not a hard idea to wrap your head around.  Especially now that instant replay is done by a single centralized source, rather than a crew by crew basis.  Notice that all of these controversial calls in favor of the Patriots came through replay - either overturning a call that shouldn't have been, or not overturning a call that should.  One guy on the take, and you can swing a half-dozen games in your favor.

 

Is it possible that organized crime has heavy influence on the gambling side?  Think about how much money is changing hands, based on the spread of a game.  I would be shocked if something was not happening behind the scenes here.

 

Then of course, you have the obvious favoring of star players - particularly the league's top quarterbacks.  This may not be considered technically fixing or even cheating, but it absolutely affects the outcomes of numerous games every single season.  And it only helps teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Packers, etc.  Think about how many quarterbacks have gotten injured over the years.  But when Tom Brady went down for the season with an ACL tear, the NFL immediately started passing rules about hitting QBs low.  When Aaron Rodgers got hurt earlier this year, all of a sudden there were stories everywhere about how the NFL needs to pass more rules to protect the passers.  (So don't be surprised when that happens again this offseason).

Edited December 28, 2017 by mjt328

[Rob's House]

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So...this overwhelmingly obvious conspiracy is likely only known by the patriots.....and every poster on this board?

 

Essentially, every NFL fan knows it is going on, but the owners are still in the dark?  That's the part that "makes sense" to you?

It only takes a couple of refs on the payroll. It doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy. We know it happened in the NBA, there's no reason to assume it couldn't happen in the NFL too.

[Mr. WEO]

41 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

It only takes a couple of refs on the payroll. It doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy. We know it happened in the NBA, there's no reason to assume it couldn't happen in the NFL too.

 

In the NBA, Donaghy was not on any owner's payroll.  He himself was betting on games and passing info to other bettors for money.

 

What is being talked about here is one owner getting favorable treatment by the head of the replay review (for money) right under the noses of all of the other owners. 

 

How is that possible? 

[Rob's House]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

In the NBA, Donaghy was not on any owner's payroll.  He himself was betting on games and passing info to other bettors for money.

 

What is being talked about here is one owner getting favorable treatment by the head of the replay review (for money) right under the noses of all of the other owners. 

 

How is that possible? 

Don't be so narrow in your thinking. The possible scenarios are endless. A league-wide conspiracy with all the owners and refs in on it would be a hell of a feat to pull off, but someone getting the head of replay review to favor one team over another isn't exactly the government planning 9/11.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

Don't be so narrow in your thinking. The possible scenarios are endless. A league-wide conspiracy with all the owners and refs in on it would be a hell of a feat to pull off, but someone getting the head of replay review to favor one team over another isn't exactly the government planning 9/11.

 

The problem with that scenario is that, in the NBA, no one knew Donaghy was gambling on games until the NYPOST broke the story about the FBI investigation.  Yet here, we have one individual seemingly blatantly favoring one owner in front of all others---and there is not one person who can produce evidence of corruption?

 

Let's face it--the pats aren't exactly master criminals.  In spygate, they had their videographer standing right in full view all the time for everyone to see   and in deflate gate, they had the "deflater" walking around past the refs in the locker room, on video cam, with big bags of balls to deflate them in the toilet.

 

Yet now they have been able to pay off the guy who does all the reviews of scores----and everyone in the world has figured out he's on  the take.....everyone except anyone at the NFL?

 

 

[corta765]

On 12/27/2017 at 1:22 AM, westerndecline said:

Does anyone have any compelling evidence statistical evidence or rational reasons on why they think the NFL is fixed? I'd be interested in hearing your arguments because the more time I spend being a Bills fan the more I turn into Oliver Stone.

 

This recent call that was randomly overturn from New York really has me worried

I also find it bizarre that the San Diego Chargers moved to LA and when 10 years prior the charges were a horrible team and talk of them moving was also a possibility Eli Manning ran away went to New York

 

John Elway didn't want to go to Baltimore and then Baltimore left

 

Jim Kelly didn't want to come to Buffalo then randomly signs a huge contract with a massive endorsements from Elites in the Buffalo Bills go to four straight Super Bowls

 

Then when Michael Vick was in his prime he was talked out of going to Buffalo

 

 

 

There is merit to some of your points but in general I think its just the league itself. It does no good for the NFL to have an issue were it looks like teams are favored ie: New England, Seattle, Green Bay, Pitt etc... I think as fans who are on downtrodden teams like BUF, CLE, CIN, DET who haven't had much success we will find the flaws even greater then perhaps an up and coming Rams team or Panthers team.

 

That said I do find it pretty hard to digest that NE has now benefited big time from four major calls that have gone there way with major impacts on the outcome of their games (HOU Cooks catch, PIT James catch, BUF Benjamin catch, & NYJ Jenkins catch). Even a non bias person would say that is really bad for the league to have a team benefit that clearly from calls that are blatantly wrong.

 

At the same point if your the NFL think of how bad it is optics wise that a team like NE who people do not like and people are always looking for a reason to bash is again in the cross hairs of a major call that allow Patriot haters more ammunition to discredit their success. That does ziltch for the NFL brand to help it and I say that as a Bills fan and fellow Patriot hater. This is where replay, not knowing what a catch is, and the massive amount of stupid rules/rule changes have forced the refs far more into the spotlight then ever needed. That is 100% un-equivalently on the NFL as a league.

 

The Chargers point is pretty bad. They have a lot of talent on that team and the last two years led the league in losses by like 7pts or less. Their schedule also was relatively soft after finishing last in the division. I understand that from a distance it looks shady but you could say the same about the Rams success.

 

I will say this though the NFL is notorious that if you piss off the ownership circle they will have it out for you. Al Davis was despised for how he did his business and battled the NFL. Kraft and the Patriots are not respected in certain ways by a lot of owners and the deflategate suspension/penalties levied were a show of that dislike/jealously by other owners. I think Jerry Jones is very close to actually being shunned into a corner as the crazy old guy especially with Richardson's passing thanks to the stink he created with Elliot and Goodell's contract. At some point every sword loses its edge and Jones is teetering there.

[westerndecline]

It's just extremely weird bizarre and a huge red flag that is soon as the Rams move to a big Market they're awesome

 

How much you want to bet that the Chargers go to a conference Championship in the next few years

 

How much do you want to bet that it comes out in 5 to 10 years that Tom Brady is on HGH and that the league knew about it probably

 

And just like the NBA how much do you want to bet that there was a protocol from NFL Headquarters to protect high-end players like Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers and new quarterbacks like Carson Wentz and Jared Goff

 

How much more do you want to bet that in this draft something bizarre will happen to keep the bills from getting Rosen or darnold or even Baker Mayfield....

 

That's the b******* I'm talking about along with all of them cheatriots cheating

I know one thing the powers-that-be will do everything to keep darnold and Rosen out of Cleveland and that s*** pisses me off

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The problem with that scenario is that, in the NBA, no one knew Donaghy was gambling on games until the NYPOST broke the story about the FBI investigation.  Yet here, we have one individual seemingly blatantly favoring one owner in front of all others---and there is not one person who can produce evidence of corruption?

 

Let's face it--the pats aren't exactly master criminals.  In spygate, they had their videographer standing right in full view all the time for everyone to see   and in deflate gate, they had the "deflater" walking around past the refs in the locker room, on video cam, with big bags of balls to deflate them in the toilet.

 

Yet now they have been able to pay off the guy who does all the reviews of scores----and everyone in the world has figured out he's on  the take.....everyone except anyone at the NFL?

 

 

Dude what in the hell are you talking about we're noticing it right now the league is talking about it right now

[BisonMan]

I don't believe there is any type of "conspiracy" in the NFL to favor the Patriots or any other team. By definition, a conspiracy involves a number of people secretly agreeing on a course of action to benefit themselves or others. To this point, there is zero evidence of such a relationship in the NFL. People weave selected facts together to see a conspiracy where none likely exists.

 

Can individuals be corrupted by money? Yes, as we’ve already seen with a few NBA refs, pro tennis players and the Black Sox. Typically, this involves gambling and organized crime. If there was strong evidence that a widespread conspiracy was favoring one team over another outside of organized crime, NFL owners would have a bigger problem. Everyone involved would wake up with a horse’s head in their bed because they’d be cheating so many shady characters, who make their living on book operations.

 

Some here have pointed out that calls by refs (or replay officials) are biased toward the Patriots, or specific players (Brady, Brees, etc.). If there is a bias (it's likely because refs are human), it's subconscious. The Cam Newton example is telling. I would guess a number of “lesser” QBs don’t get the same calls as Brady, Rogers, etc. There is no directive to do so, it’s just unconscious bias at work.

A can recommend a great book on this subject.

 

“Scorecasting” by Tobias Moskowitz and L. Jon Wertheim is an excellent book on how hidden biases affect decision-making in sports. They looked a data from a variety of sports an analyzed how refs, coaches, players, etc. made “irrational” decisions because of influences outside the games. Coaches don’t go for it on 4^th down even though doing so would increase their odds of winning a game. Baseball umpires change the size of the strike zone depending on the count (at 3-0 the zone gets bigger, at 0-2 the zone gets smaller). Refs give more subjective calls (i.e. holding, PI) to the home team in all sports likely because of fan bias. Statistically, this is really bad in the NBA.

 

Success of teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Packers, etc. are more likely caused by better team management, coaching and having a star QB than by any conspiracy that might exist in the league. As many have pointed out here, if it’s obvious to casual fans (TBD denizens), you can bet the hyper-competitive ownership of the other teams would raise holy hell in order to stop it. There is just too much money and ego on the line for them to passively let this type of thing go by.

 

Someone pointed out that owners would just be happy because they are already making so much money. Tell that to the members of Congress that just passed a huge tax cut for the wealthiest Americans under the threat of having their campaign contributions curtailed by rich donors. The uber-wealthy can never have enough. That’s how they keep score.

 

EdW

Edited December 28, 2017 by BisonMan

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, westerndecline said:

It's just extremely weird bizarre and a huge red flag that is soon as the Rams move to a big Market they're awesome

 

How much you want to bet that the Chargers go to a conference Championship in the next few years

 

How much do you want to bet that it comes out in 5 to 10 years that Tom Brady is on HGH and that the league knew about it probably

 

And just like the NBA how much do you want to bet that there was a protocol from NFL Headquarters to protect high-end players like Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers and new quarterbacks like Carson Wentz and Jared Goff

 

How much more do you want to bet that in this draft something bizarre will happen to keep the bills from getting Rosen or darnold or even Baker Mayfield....

 

That's the b******* I'm talking about along with all of them cheatriots cheating

I know one thing the powers-that-be will do everything to keep darnold and Rosen out of Cleveland and that s*** pisses me off

Dude what in the hell are you talking about we're noticing it right now the league is talking about it right now

 

My new favorite poster...

[cd1]

A few years ago I suspected there might be an incentive for the league to "favor" some teams over others. This may be influenced by the fact that ALL owners share EQUALLY on the TOTAL of ALL weekly ticket sales.  

In other words Pegula gets the same $$$$$ as Kraft.

 

With all that said, I searched google to find seating capacities and avg ticket sales per stadium. I created a spread sheet with the results.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oLcPYmu42YWpYWLkoqxAQHMDp8G4xZGvSgqTi5oghyM/htmlview

 

hope you can access the page.

 

ALL owners make more money when certain stadiums are FILLED.  Perhaps that was the reason for the "MUST have new stadium" line of thinking.

Edited December 28, 2017 by cd1

[BadLandsMeanie]

Want a fairy tale? Want to hear a tin foil hat fantasy?

 

Once upon a time there was a league upon which BILLIONS of dollars were wagered on games through legal and illegal bookies every year.

 

All one has to do is cover the spread to win the bet. The game W/L outcome doesn't even matter in most of it.

 

The league officials can ignore very obvious infractions, or make completely obviously wrong play reversals nullifying scores and so on, and NOTHING happens to them.

 

But nobody ever makes calls like that to influence the score, because it would be wrong.

 

That is the fairy tale if you ask me.

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, Chris66 said:

Maybe the other owners are pissed at Pegula for keeping the team in Buffalo. Maybe they are also pissed because he seems in no hurry to build a stadium. Maybe it has less to do with NE and more to do with screwing the Bills.

Very possible. The league still holds a grudge against the Raiders. It could go back to us losing 4 straight SB's. Does the league really want the Bills to return to a SB? Probably not. That music city lateral could've gone either way. The dozens of controversial calls we've had go against us while playing the Patriots. All of these things individually might seem suspicious. But put them all together and real doubt starts to creep in. Money will always be the final denominator. Maybe not a full blown conspiracy but there's something very unethical going on.