Comprehensive "Tyrod Taylor is Bad" Thread (VERY Comprehensive)

[Ol Dirty B]

On 12/25/2017 at 2:21 PM, Spiderweb said:

It doesnt show 11th or 12th passing offenses. Those references were for overall all offenses including running. The best we have been is 28th ( clearly referenced) when only passing was considered. Suggest you read OP's post once again

 

Yea I very clearly !@#$ed up there. My bad

[Green Lightning]

The bills haven't scored a second-half touchdown in five games. Bad calls and drops aside that does speak to your offensive leader. I like TT,  but he's just not the guy who's going to move this team forward.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I'm curious, but when has an NFL starter for one team for 3 consecutive years who's under 30 ever been cut without a viable replacement on the roster or in return? You say this kind of thing happens all the time so I expect finding something like this will be easy

 

And again, just so that you don't get confused, I am not saying that Taylor will absolutely be here next year.  However, I do think 0BD is going to have a very clear plan regarding the QB position if and when they do get rid of Taylor. And it's going to be a plan that's pretty solid. Where we are currently drafting, we can't say that we have any solid shot at any particular QB.

 

So, unless OBD decides and manages to trade up into the top five for a draft pick before Taylor's bonus is due, I think there is a strong likelihood that he is still on the roster all the way up through the draft and maybe beyond. 

 

 

 

I would say it would be idiotic to let Taylor go without a bird-in-hand.............but I can't rule it out........this is the Bills.

 

They once held a press conference to announce the signing of Kevin Kolb....a completely washed-out, never-was POS whose career high in passing TD's was NINE()..........at which Kolb immediately started talking about SB.   

[twoandfourteen]

5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Re McCown: No, it's not the same thing. It's not the same thing because (and this is going to upset some of you) McCown is not as good or as consistentor as consistent a QB as Taylor.

 

This is just not true. At least, statistically speaking. 

 

Just looking at the three years Taylor has been a starter -- McCown has put up better passing numbers, and that was while playing in the with three-ring circuses known as the Cleveland Browns & NY Jets. 

 

This year, JMcC has 18 TD passes in 13 games. How about Tyrod? 13 TDs in 14 games. Must be all those weapons McCown has in NY, right? 

 

Passing yards? JMcC's lowest yds/gm is still better than Tyrod's best. 

 

 

 

Oh, and McCown has more rushing TDs this year. 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

21 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, Tyrod has been an important part of our team this year. So has Vlad Ducasse. And Jordan Mills. So has Deonte Thompson. So has Ramon Humber and Shaq Lawson. Doesn't mean we can't hope plenty of those guys are replaced by better players as soon as possible.

 

So, Tyrod was responsible for 54% of the offensive snaps, you say? If I only look at passing percentage, and pretend that not a single QB in the league except Tyrod ran a single down, that would still rank Tyrod 25th or 26th in the league in that stat (the Rams threw 54.32%of the time and I don't know if Tyrod was involved in more plays than that, but in real life Goff must have run at least a play or two, as did a few other QBs). So not real impressive.

 

Tyrod was responsible for 61% of the offense's total yards? In what world is it impressive that a QB only does that? The best rushing team in the league this year got 2,179 run yards and only four teams managed over 2000. How does that compare to pass yards? Twenty-five QBs got more passing yards than Tyrod and 19 got more passing yards than Tyrod got pass and run yards together. So again, assuming not a single other QB got a single run yard but giving Tyrod credit for all his run yards, Tyrod is still behind guys like Mariota, Dalton, Winston, Keenum, Bortles, and plenty of others. Don't know where it would fit compared to other teams, but well below average. Again, not impressive.

 

Tyrod got 58% of the offense's total 1st downs? Considering we're 28th in the league in first downs, I'm not real impressed there either. Throw in his 24 running first downs and he would leap all the way up to 20th in the league, tied with Dalton, for QB first downs by pass only. And again, a few other QBs had some running first downs too, but I'm not even considering those. Not noteable.

 

Tyrod got 65% of the offensive TDs? If only that amounted to being, you know, good. Throw in Tyrod's four running TDs and put him on the QB list - the list of passing TDs only - and Tyrod flies all the way up from 25th to a three-way tie for 20th with McCown and Winston. Again, not impressive.

 

 

 

So yeah, you're right, he was a big part of the Bills offense ... being extremely unimpressive. 

 

Hey Thurm, you complain about this all of the time so how about some links?

 

 Those links would be especially helpful to figure out what your stats actually include and do not include. My stats were very simple and taken directly from NFL.com and Teamrankings.com. You say yourself right here "Goff must have run a play or two, as did a few other QBs."

 

A player or two, huh? Yeah, 10 QBs in the NFL ran the ball 50 times or more. 19 QBs in the NFL ran the ball 30 times or more.  33 QBs in the NFL ran the ball 16 times or more. Meaning that at least 33 ran the ball at least one play.

http://pickingpros.com/nfl/quarterback-rushing-leaders.php

 

Did whatever numbers you included a count for sacks, as well?

 

 

I have no idea, because I don't have your link.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Lfod said:

I wouldn't worry so much about Tyrod anymore guys. Benching him at the time they did is all you need to know. People can say whatever about benching him but it doesn't take the weight from it happening.

 

They thought Nate Peterman could be a better answer in his rookie year. It does not matter how it turned out with Nate I don't think that suddenly changed thier view on Tyrod.

 

Then add in that he took a pay cut to stay here I would guess this was his year to prove his worth. The benching proves he didn't prove it, at least to the guys in charge. 

 

I don't think it matters if you love him or hate him to understand it. You don't take a pay cut then get benched in the middle of a playoff hunt because your good enough in the eyes of the HC who benched you.

 

I think if Nate didn't have a disaster of a start, Tyrod wouldn't even be starting. This isn't a random feeling. The HC benched Tyrod because he wanted Nate to do better and take the job. I can't think of another reason to do it.

 

Tyrod was interesting. I can see why he was pulled from back up duty to start in Buffalo. You just never know until you do know. The same goes for Nate Peterman or anyone. Tyrod has flashes and it was intriguing. I would take interest in a guy that can flash excellence. 

 

At some point you have to see it for what it was. A guy who can definitely have moments of greatness but not frequently enough to depend on. 

 

So like anyone I was interested to see if those flashes transformed into frequent moments of greatness. Some team next year may have that some wonder about him and take a shot on him. I wish him the best of luck. 

 

So no, Tyrod doesn't just suck like people want to lazily lable him. They do have solid points when pointing out some of his negatives. I can see why people like Tyrod and it's the same reasons I did. That potential to flash. The potential to become great. 

 

It's been a few years and I think the experiment is over. I have no crystal ball but looking at the big picture I can see the Bills are moving on next year. I think he's had enough time to become what he was gonna become. This is how it turned out. Might be good enough to limp into the playoffs. Not good enough.

 

You have to score points against the Patriots. Just good enough will never take the division. The team needs some real answers to beating the Patriots and that should be the biggest concern.

 

 

 

Nice post. Just about says it all.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

25 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Hey Thurm, you complain about this all of the time so how about some links?

 

 Those links would be especially helpful to figure out what your stats actually include and do not include. My stats were very simple and taken directly from NFL.com and Teamrankings.com. You say yourself right here "Goff must have run a play or two, as did a few other QBs."

 

A player or two, huh? Yeah, 10 QBs in the NFL ran the ball 50 times or more. 19 QBs in the NFL ran the ball 30 times or more.  33 QBs in the NFL ran the ball 16 times or more. Meaning that at least 33 ran the ball at least one play.

http://pickingpros.com/nfl/quarterback-rushing-leaders.php

 

Did whatever numbers you included a count for sacks, as well?

 

 

I have no idea, because I don't have your link.

 

 

 

Please. The links are the same ones you use all the time. NFL.com stats, mainly.

 

But thanks for making my point for me. 10 QBs in the NFL ran the ball 50 times or more? Thanks. 19 QBs ran the ball 30 times or more? Thanks.

 

But what I did is take Tyrod's passing stats and throw in his running stats and put the totals against the other QBs raw passing stats, ignoring any of their run stats. And Tyrod still came out well below average. Other QBs passing stats only, compared to Tyrod's total pass and run stats. And it still came out well below average.

 

You tried to pretend this was impressive:

 

 

On 12/27/2017 at 11:56 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Despite missing what translates to a full NFL game, he's still responsible for 54% of the offensive snaps, 61% of the offense's total yards, 58% of the offense's total 1st downs...and 65% of the offensive TDs.

 

 

And it's really really not impressive in any way. It's not remarkable that he spent a lot of time on the field in an ineffective offense and racked up below average stats.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Bills Pimpin']

41 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

This kind of hypothetical is really stupid.

 

Really stupid

Stupid Hypotheticals???. 99% of this board is filled with stupid hypotheticals. That's the point isn't it? Hypotheticals, what ifs, who's better, who should have started, who should be fired, etc. All stated by arm chair GM's and coaches, who know little can can do nothing. But whatever, I understand that's the easy way out for Tyrod fanboys. I understand how uttering another QB's name next to Tyrods for comparison will make your Tyrod lovefest seems that much more ludicrous. 

 

FYI, I hope Tyrod plays fantastic on Sunday and the Ravens lose just like you so the Bills make the playoffs. 

[Thurman#1]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:56 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

We have the 8th worst defense by yards, 3rd worst run defense, and we're 18th in points given up per game. Yes we have an opportunistic defense, but even there we're tied for 8th in takeaways.

 

Yet somehow, despite a 5 interception half by Not Ready Nate, we're still 6th in our turnover differential and go into week 17 with a legitimate shot at the playoffs for the first time in 12-13 years.

 

 

 

"We have the 8th worst defense by yards"? Wow, that's bad! 

 

If only the offense weren't even worse. 4th worst by yards.

 

"We're 18th in points given up per game"? Holy cow!

 

If only the offense weren't even worse. 24th in points. And that's with the defense and STs tied for 10th in non-offensive scoring, and with the offense getting better field position than the D ... the offense got the 18th best average drive start in terms of field position while leaving the defense the 28th best average drive start.

 

The defense helped the offense quite a bit more than the offense helped the defense. The side more responsible for any success we've had this year is the defense.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Thurman#1

[transplantbillsfan]

30 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Please. The links are the same ones you use all the time. NFL.com stats, mainly.

 

But thanks for making my point for me. 10 QBs in the NFL ran the ball 50 times or more? Thanks. 19 QBs ran the ball 30 times or more? Thanks.

 

But what I did is take Tyrod's passing stats and throw in his running stats and put the totals against the other QBs raw passing stats, ignoring any of their run stats. And Tyrod still came out well below average. Other QBs passing stats only, compared to Tyrod's total pass and run stats. And it still came out well below average.

 

You tried to pretend this was impressive:

 

You're being evasive.

 

I accounted for pass attempts, rushes AND sacks for Taylor in terms of offensive snaps, total yards, total 1st downs and total TDs in terms of percentages of those on the team.

 

Did you do the same for all NFL QBs?

 

Are Goff or Prescott or Cutler or Matt Ryan or whoever above or below 54%, 61%, 58%, and 65% of their respective teams total snaps, yards, 1st downs and TDs?

 

Curious where Taylor ranks in that percentage once you piece it together.

 

And also, there was the entire game Taylor missed... yet he's still accounted for those percentages of total team snaps/yards/1st downs/TDs on the year.

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You're being evasive.

 

I accounted for pass attempts, rushes AND sacks for Taylor in terms of offensive snaps, total yards, total 1st downs and total TDs in terms of percentages of those on the team.

 

Did you do the same for all NFL QBs?

 

Are Goff or Prescott or Cutler or Matt Ryan or whoever above or below 54%, 61%, 58%, and 65% of their respective teams total snaps, yards, 1st downs and TDs?

 

Curious where Taylor ranks in that percentage once you piece it together.

 

And also, there was the entire game Taylor missed... yet he's still accounted for those percentages of total team snaps/yards/1st downs/TDs on the year.

 

 

Why does this weirdo stat matter again?

[Thurman#1]

41 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You're being evasive.

 

I accounted for pass attempts, rushes AND sacks for Taylor in terms of offensive snaps, total yards, total 1st downs and total TDs in terms of percentages of those on the team.

 

Did you do the same for all NFL QBs?

 

Are Goff or Prescott or Cutler or Matt Ryan or whoever above or below 54%, 61%, 58%, and 65% of their respective teams total snaps, yards, 1st downs and TDs?

 

Curious where Taylor ranks in that percentage once you piece it together.

 

And also, there was the entire game Taylor missed... yet he's still accounted for those percentages of total team snaps/yards/1st downs/TDs on the year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're being obtuse. 

 

You say that Tyrod was responsible for 54% of offensive snaps? Unimpressive. Most team pass more than 54% of all snaps. You say that Tyrod was responsible for 61% of the Bills total yards but most teams pass games alone are responsible for a higher percentage of their total yardage than that. Your stats are wildly unremarkable, and in fact below average even when comparing only the pass yardage and snaps of other teams against Tyrod's passes and runs.

 

Tyrod got 65% of the offensive TDs? I compared Tyrod's passing and running QBs totalled, with only the passing TDs of other teams. Still well below average in the resulting rankings for Tyrod.

 

I've spelled it out - clearly - twice now and this is the third time. If you're interested in a research project of some sort, by all means go and do it, but don't expect me to do it for you.

 

Again, I threw all of Tyrod's pass and run stats against just the pass stats of the other QBs. And it still came out well below average. 

 

 

35 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Why does this weirdo stat matter again?

 

 

Exactly.

 

It matters because the numbers it gives are high enough that at first glance it seems impressive for Tyrod.

 

Transplant can practically hear people saying stuff like, "58% of something or other? And 65% of some other not real clear thing. Those numbers are over 50%, so they seem high!! And Tyrod's name is there, near high numbers. Hmmm."

 

And for Transplant, that imagined response is enough.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Thurman#1

[ColoradoBills]

10 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

I can't believe I'm actually going to suggest this, but after reading all of this crap and thinking about it.... Fitzy might be the best guy to bring in here to work with both Peterman and the new kid they draft in April. He's on a 1 year deal with Tampa Bay, so won't cost anything to sign him as a FA. 

 

The guy definitely has the football IQ down and had a bit of "gunslinger" in him. He just didn't have all of the physical tools to successfully execute what he was seeing. 

 

His numbers were actually ok for a backup, 1103 yards/7TDs/3INTs/86.0 QBR and averaged 183.8 yards per game in 6 games, 3 as the starter (2-1). 

 

I can't believe it either.

[twoandfourteen]

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I can't believe it either.

 

I don't want him to start, or ever really see the field. But as a backup/mentor, maybe? I can't think of any other vet that I would like to see work with the new QBs.

[Bills Pimpin']

1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

I don't want him to start, or ever really see the field. But as a backup/mentor, maybe? I can't think of any other vet that I would like to see work with the new QBs.

Tyrod Taylor will go from the worst starting QB to the best backup QB in the league in 2018 if he will accept that role. Unfortunately I do not think it can be for the Bills. 

[twoandfourteen]

57 minutes ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

Tyrod Taylor will go from the worst starting QB to the best backup QB in the league in 2018 if he will accept that role. Unfortunately I do not think it can be for the Bills. 

 

I don't really want Taylor in that "mentor" role -- as far as learning how to be a professional, film study, diligence, commitment, etc... he'd be perfect in that regard, there is no question about that. I really like Tyrod as an individual and as a pro. It doesn't get much better than him. 

The problem is that his overall game relies primarily on things that athletically only he is capable of, and his perspective on the passing game is severely limited by the fundamental things he can't do. I just don't think he'd be a very good candidate to teach a rookie how to run a high-powered passing attack. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Illogic.

 

[Xerx]

41 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

I don't really want Taylor in that "mentor" role -- as far as learning how to be a professional, film study, diligence, commitment, etc... he'd be perfect in that regard, there is no question about that. I really like Tyrod as an individual and as a pro. It doesn't get much better than him. 

The problem is that his overall game relies primarily on things that athletically only he is capable of, and his perspective on the passing game is severely limited by the fundamental things he can't do. I just don't think he'd be a very good candidate to teach a rookie how to run a high-powered passing attack. 

 

This ^^^^

[BillsMedia]

On 12/26/2017 at 1:29 PM, BillsFan2313 said:

 

Evan Silva is a dummy. I am shocked how often that fool is wrong, and still has a job covering football. 

 

He's the top of the industry, you're a poster on a football forum. LOL. Learn the game and then discuss football. 

 

 

[Bills Pimpin']

4 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

I don't really want Taylor in that "mentor" role -- as far as learning how to be a professional, film study, diligence, commitment, etc... he'd be perfect in that regard, there is no question about that. I really like Tyrod as an individual and as a pro. It doesn't get much better than him. 

The problem is that his overall game relies primarily on things that athletically only he is capable of, and his perspective on the passing game is severely limited by the fundamental things he can't do. I just don't think he'd be a very good candidate to teach a rookie how to run a high-powered passing attack. 

Definitely agree with this for the Bills. So much water under the bridge. I think it could be different for another team.