Comprehensive "Tyrod Taylor is Bad" Thread (VERY Comprehensive)

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

That's shocking.  Almost any rookie is a better long term option than Tyrod at this point.

 

This just isn’t true. TT is still better than every single rookie QB this team has Drafted since the late 80’s

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

That simply doesn't align with reality. I'd wager that no more than 4 QBs from this draft, more likely 3, go on to a better career than Tyrod. And I think highly of this QB class.

That's exactly my point.  4 of them have the chance to be better than TT.  That makes them better long term options.

 

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

This just isn’t true. TT is still better than every single rookie QB this team has Drafted since the late 80’s

Is rookie JP Losman still on this team?  How relevant is this?

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

That's exactly my point.  4 of them have the chance to be better than TT.  That makes them better long term options.

No, it isn't. You want to start the rookie, period. I don't if we don't get one of the top 4. Hence, I'd like to see who the rookie is first.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

No, it isn't. You want to start the rookie, period. I don't if we don't get one of the top 4. Hence, I'd like to see who the rookie is first.

I meant one of the high rookies.  I don't mean 7th round flyers 

[BigDingus]

2 hours ago, Xerx said:

I've supported and cheered for Tyrod and still will until he's no longer a Bill, but I'm ready for a new quarterback.

 

But let's not spew riduculousness

 

-To further highlight this point, there is a metric called "Aggressiveness/AGG%" where Tyrod is ranked 32nd. Aggressiveness rating is defined as "the amount of passing attempts a QB makes that are into tight coverage, where there is a defender within 1 yard or less of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion. AGG is shown as a % of attempts into tight windows over all passing attempts."

 

He's in the same area range in that stat as the top QB's...If you are near the top of the AGG% board, you are a most likely a TERRIBLE QB.

 

This tight window BS is ridiculous, you want QB hitting OPEN receivers. You shoudn't need to force throws into tight windows anymore than 15-18% of the time. Anything above that is terrible decisions, poor receiver seperation and  bad schemes.

 

2016 https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2016/all 

He's in the same area of the chart as the Brees, Roesthlesberger, Rodgers, Brady's of the world...

2017 https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2017/all

Again same are of the chart as the top QB's

 

Tyrod doesn't throw to guys who are open in the seams or on the outside is the issue.

This stat does not show that

 

It's not tight windows per se, it's the into space windows.  He can't hit a TE with passes over a LB head and before the Safety in the seams, anticipation throw into the window. 

 

The window is large, it's just there for a limited amount of time. It's all being ON TIME with the BALL

 

Last thing I want is a QB forcing throw after throws into coverage. Unless it's to Benjamin (who we've not had very long) no receiver on this team has shown ANY ability to catch a contested ball ever.

 

 

 

 

So out of everything referenced you point to the AGG stat? Really? It's a useful metric WHEN TAKING INTO ACCOUNT EVERYTHING ELSE. On its own, it doesn't give any sort of picture on how a QB plays, but in conjunction with EVERYTHING ELSE it really highlights Taylor's abilities. 

The point of this post was to put all the stuff we see on the field, along with the stats, to explain his deficiencies and issues. You can pick any ONE thing and try to single it out, but that's not the point. That's why when people point to "he's efficient!" with his limited passes, I show that throwing short of the sticks, averaging low YPA, dumping off to RBs, below average completion percentage, etc. disproves that.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

That's shocking.  Almost any rookie is a better long term option than Tyrod at this point.

 

This just isn’t true. TT is still better than every single rookie QB this team has Drafted since the late 80’s

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

Because you want Tyrod here to potentially start week one. 

 

If Tyrod is starting next year, our shiny new rookie can't.

 

So why don't you want our rookie starting??

 

Why do you insist on drawing these lines in the sand?

 

I potentially want Taylor here and potentially to start.

 

Do you know who our QB is going to be? I don't. I'll tell you this, the more I hear about this Josh Allen kid, the more it scares me because he really just sounds like EJ 2.0.  If he is, we probably will and should do what we did not do with EJ, even though that seemed to be the plan if not for a fall on a mat. If we trade up in the draft for a QB,  I expect that shiny new rookie to start day one.

 

Another factor in this is that 0BD does not know what's going to unfold in the draft. If they plan on drafting a rocky, I think it makes it that much more likely that Taylor is  still in a bills uniform simply because he has to be cut by the fourth day of the new lead year or if he is owed a bonus which we will not get back. If the plan is to go out and get a bet QB like Cousins, obviously Taylor would be cut or traded at best somehow.

 

 What I think is likely to happen is that Taylor remains on the roster all the way up until the draft and then 0BD uses him as part of a draft package to try to trade up for Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield.

 

From the little I know, if it's any of those three QBs, I 100% would love to start him on day one, even though Darnold sounds like he might need some time to learn.

 

But if it's a guy like Allen or Jackson (and again, I really don't watch college football so I'm just throwing names out based on what I have heard and a little I have seen), then I'm going to guess they're going to need some time on the bench to learn, in which case I think there's a really good chance Taylor will still be here taking snaps and Week 1.

[Mat68]

Worst thing you can do imo is play a Qb before he is ready.  Some Qbs take a year or some walk into the building ready.  Idk what the rookie will be so I would hedge my bets and have an adequate qb in place to mitigate any pressure to force them on the filed before being ready.  Unless I find an improvement over Taylor i keep him as Qb.  He is about average but still would keep the team competitive and give the Bills the ability to bring in free agent this off season.  No reason to cut off your despite your face.  If you miss out on the Qb you want you are stuck with your pants down.  Their are alot of teams that need Qbs and Buffalo is 20 spots away so I would play it safe and have an adequate starter before draft time.  

[Xerx]

8 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

 

So out of everything referenced you point to the AGG stat? Really? It's a useful metric WHEN TAKING INTO ACCOUNT EVERYTHING ELSE. On its own, it doesn't give any sort of picture on how a QB plays, but in conjunction with EVERYTHING ELSE it really highlights Taylor's abilities. 

The point of this post was to put all the stuff we see on the field, along with the stats, to explain his deficiencies and issues. You can pick any ONE thing and try to single it out, but that's not the point. That's why when people point to "he's efficient!" with his limited passes, I show that throwing short of the sticks, averaging low YPA, dumping off to RBs, below average completion percentage, etc. disproves that.

 

This stat has nothing to do with short of the chains etc. It's literally "Aggressiveness tracks the amount of passing attempts a quarterback makes that are into tight coverage, where there is a defender within 1 yard or less of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion. AGG is shown as a % of attempts into tight windows over all passing attempt"

 

I'm picking this one stat, because you singled it out as he's 32nd!!! Like that's a bad thing with this stat and it's really not.  Top of the list guys tend to be crap quarterbacks with tons of interceptions and known for poopy play. 

 

I agree with you, it's time to move one. We don't need to falsify and claim bad stats to prove it either.

 

It's not his AGG% that's the problem, we can see that watching the games or any game not involving Tyrod.

 

It's is inability to hit guys in the "pockets" between defenders when they are open.  This has nothing to do with the AGG% stat.

[Bills Pimpin']

11 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Bwahahahahaha!!!!

 

Unreal the way some people isolate everything else that the other 52 men on the roster and the coaches do well from all their shortcomings for the purpose of isolating all of Tyrod Taylor's shortcomings from everything he does well.  

The point is, take any of the other starting quarterback (except Kizer and whichever QB is starting for Denver) in the NFL and the Bills have the same or a better record today REGARDLESS of the teams other shortcomings. Tyrod Taylor is the weakest spot at OBD and that can not be debated. He is the worst starting QB in the league and the team is 8-7. Think about that. Think about all of the great things other people have to do in this organization to make up for that fact, to make up for "Tyrod Taylors shortcomings".  ANd you people defend him. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[twoandfourteen]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

This just isn’t true. TT is still better than every single rookie QB this team has Drafted since the late 80’s

 

That's exactly why we are all arguing about this right now. 

 

...And it's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Tyrod Taylor's abilities as a starting QB. 

 

Congratulations on being better than Brian McClure (rd12/1986), Matt Rodgers (rd12/1992), Todd Collins (rd2/1995), JP Losman (rd1/2004), Trent Edwards (rd3/2007), Levi Brown (rd7/2010), EJ Manuel (rd1/2013), and Cardale Jones (rd4/2016). 

 

Yikes. Looks even worse when you see it all in one place like that. "30 years of excellence", my friends. 

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

The point is, take any of the other starting quarterback (except Kizer and whichever QB is starting for Denver) in the NFL and the Bills have the same or a better record today REGARDLESS of the teams other shortcomings. 

 

 

 

That's just ignorance.

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

That's exactly my point.  4 of them have the chance to be better than TT.  That makes them better long term options.

 

Is rookie JP Losman still on this team?  How relevant is this?

 

Relevance is that it’s not true any rookie QB drafted will put the team in a better situation than its in right now. And we have 3 decades of drafting and free agent acquisitions too by the way to prove it.

 

So yes keep trying to upgrade the position, but do not jettison what we have until the upgrade is in place. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Relevance is that it’s not true any rookie QB drafted will put the team in a better situation than its in right now. And we have 3 decades of drafting and free agent acquisitions too by the way to prove it.

 

So yes keep trying to upgrade the position, but do not jettison what we have until the upgrade is in place. 

Teams that jettisoned what they had:

 

Eagles

Rams

Seahawks

Raiders

Bucs

Titans

etc etc

 

Don't be so afraid.

[Xerx]

IF and I think it's more of a WHEN we draft a QB this year.

 

I believe it's best for the Franchise to just move completely away from TT.

 

I don't think he's the guy I want the rookie learning from, bring in a savvy veteran type, the backup guy whose hung around for 15years because he understand concepts, reads etc, just can't execute or is weak armed or something.

 

Seriously, I'd rather the rookie learning from a far less physically gifted QB if that guy is far superior in the X and O's.

 

Bring in Josh McCown, Alex Smith, Matt Cassel, Matt Schaub,  are all better options than Tyrod for a guy to learn from. 

 

Tyrod is so unique of a talent, he can't teach guys things. 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

9 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Teams that jettisoned what they had:

 

Eagles

Rams

Seahawks

Raiders

Bucs

Titans

etc etc

 

Don't be so afraid.

This feels a lot like a misrepresentation to me.

 

Eagles - Traded up to #2 overall and still kept their vet (Bradford) until the Vikings offered a deal they couldn't refuse.

Rams - Traded up to #1 overall and still kept Keenum and sat their rookie until week 11. Only QB departure was Foles.

Seahawks - Hasselbeck was let go in 2010, 2 years before they drafted Wilson. They had Jackson on an existing contract and signed Matt Flynn before the draft. Nobody was jettisoned until Wilson clearly won the job through camp.

Raiders - Who was jettisoned here? Pryor (now a WR), Flynn (yes, same one from Seattle), or McGloin?

Bucs - #1 overal pick at QB. They kept Glennon as a backup because he was still on his rookie deal. Nobody was jettisoned here...

Titans - #2 overall pick at QB. Who was jettisoned here? Jake Locker retired and Mettenberger was kept on the roster when Mariota was drafted. Charlie Whitehurst?

 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, Xerx said:

IF and I think it's more of a WHEN we draft a QB this year.

 

I believe it's best for the Franchise to just move completely away from TT.

 

I don't think he's the guy I want the rookie learning from, bring in a savvy veteran type, the backup guy whose hung around for 15years because he understand concepts, reads etc, just can't execute or is weak armed or something.

 

Seriously, I'd rather the rookie learning from a far less physically gifted QB if that guy is far superior in the X and O's.

 

Bring in Josh McCown, Alex Smith, Matt Cassel, Matt Schaub,  are all better options than Tyrod for a guy to learn from. 

 

Tyrod is so unique of a talent, he can't teach guys things. 

 

 

 

If McDermott brings in utter garbage like Matt's Cassell or Schaub to start/mentor the 3rd or 4th best QB prospect in the draft...........start vetting offensive minded HC candidates for McD's replacment because the process will turn from Jauron Ball into the most boring tank team ever.

 

Josh McCown's health was an aberration this year........he's been solid when healthy for the past few years but 39 years old in 2018 and broken down.

 

Alex Smith is a lateral move from Tyrod,  doesn't appear to be at the point in his career where he is interested in mentoring a successor and will cost you a healthy contract in addition to eating Tyrod's dead money AND also cost you draft capital.

 

They are in yet another really precarious position wrt QB options going into this offseason which makes the "anyone but Tyrod" movement even more laughable.    Not exactly a destination gig being the QB in Buffalo.   Hell McCown might even turn them down AGAIN.......that's how they got Tyrod in the first place.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

28 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Teams that jettisoned what they had:

 

Eagles

Rams 

Seahawks

Raiders

Bucs

Titans

etc etc

 

Don't be so afraid.

 

etc etc includes Jets, Cleveland And Chicago too. Don’t forget them. 

 

[Bills Pimpin']

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That's just ignorance.

 

 

Name one starting QB that would give the Bills a worse record than it is now.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Bills Pimpin'

[wppete]

I would trade Tyrod for Kyle Orton at this point. Tyrod is awful.