Tech Help Designing Sump Pump PLC

[mead107]

9 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Awesome!  I think am following...  That last sentence bolded, do you mean: "it starts when it hits the SECOND (high) ON switch?" But there is a pesky high water audible alarm that will trigger on the first controller if water stays in contact with the ON probe.

 

Side note... It would be sweet if I could extend the second controllers OFF probe all the way to bottom of pit... But I can't, these controllers have fixed on/off height.

 

I could get two different controllers that have independent hi-lo probes... It's a different company (HydroCheck). That would be sweet.  When the high ON went off... It could drain whole pit (and most of pipe arounf house acting as a "reservoir."

 

Use two of these controllers, controlled by the PLC:

 

https://www.amazon.com/HC6000-Hi-Lo-Controller-Float-Switch/dp/B006AU4L4U

 

Beauty of these is, they warn you when motor is going bad:

 

I have been mulling that idea over many years!

 

Inlet into pit is only 9" off bottom and pit is 18" round... Way too shallow, small for the clay soil, high water table!

 

I water my front lawn and drain tile sends to pump in back of basement!

 

New house in 1996... 

I was thinking... Under $300... 

 

I am I dreaming?

 

0h... It may have been me reacting to a post.  New Board is neat, but notifications drive me wild some times!

 

 

EDIT:  I was hoping to use existing controllers... Since they have high water alarms... And one's I posted above have motor detection... If windings start going bad, controller will send out alarm... Warning you that pump is failing.

You can turn them off. 

[Guffalo]

Not sure if this would work in a Rube Goldberg kind of way, if it has the mechanical float, put a decent size sinker or weight on the bar holding the float. Attach the weight on a roller that will weigh down the float end until the water forces the float up, then the weight will slide back releasing the pressure on the arm untill the pump has run a cycle. Once the arm drops after the water discharge, the weight will slide down the arm, weighing the float down until the new intake of water forces the float arm up again.  This would limit the amount of cycles since the weight is allowing the arm to stay down and more water to fill before discharge. At least it will cut the cycles down a bit.

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Guffalo

[ExiledInIllinois]

7 hours ago, mead107 said:

You can turn them off. 

Yep!  Like we do at work, throw man power, labor at issue and just staff somebody around 24/7/365 the last 60 years.

 

I could become the "PLC"... There's a joke in there somwhere.  I could just unplug one and plug the other in when it rains... But I gotta be home.  No way the wife is doing this, I'd have a flooded basement if not for the back-up. Something would go wrong with the programming.  I have been try to work on the reprogramming for 25 years.  I can't figure her out!  Children, even more complicated program! 

 

Or I do this... I assembled a power block and just throw my labor at it and flip a switch. Those rocker switches is where the PLC w/user interface would go. When it rains and pump is short cycling every 30 seconds, one rocker switch goes off.  Other high water controller can stay live always (don't even need the second rocker switch, but it's there) since sensors are above water during dry spells.

 

Slow march to automation.  But I gotta be home when it rains (surge protector there to protect the electronics in pump control):

 

 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 hours ago, Guffalo said:

Not sure if this would work in a Rube Goldberg kind of way, if it has the mechanical float, put a decent size sinker or weight on the bar holding the float. Attach the weight on a roller that will weigh down the float end until the water forces the float up, then the weight will slide back releasing the pressure on the arm untill the pump has run a cycle. Once the arm drops after the water discharge, the weight will slide down the arm, weighing the float down until the new intake of water forces the float arm up again.  This would limit the amount of cycles since the weight is allowing the arm to stay down and more water to fill before discharge. At least it will cut the cycles down a bit.

 

Nice. No Mechanical floats. That would work... But too many other size contraints, etc...

 

Unfortunately, I utilize controllers that have sensor probes for high on, low off, and high water audible alarm. They can also attach to a dialer and call me when there is high water like bad pump, frozen discharge, too much rain and back-up kicks in to boost or add to pumping capacity. So, I want to get away from mechanical floats/anything.  Too small a pit with added turbulence of water rushing in, maintenance would be every other year or so.  I tried, back pre-sensor days, but mechanical floats and switches wear out in a few years. Builder had pressure switch originally on a nice Hydromatic pump, circa 1996 that still works as emergency pump with electronic float... Just pressed it into service this past spring for a neighbor that had to run out and get another pump (crazy, no back-up!). Pressure switch is better, again, sensors get me double triple the years... Under 10.  But gotta keep pit clean, splash free.

 

My pit just too small, shallow, and turbulent as you will see in below video.

 

My back up utilizes this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/HC8000-Sump-Controller-Float-Switch/dp/B000HOV8UK

 

No "off" sensor.  It detects draw on motor when it sucks a millisecond of air, shuts pump off.  Just set to high on level and plug pump in. Nothing mechanical to where out for years!  Nice thing about these, it will tell you when the pump motor is going bad and send out a warning.  Also has various other alarms... High water, etc...  These have been kicking azz for years in my pits (sewage ejector pump pit too... Different model to handle stuff like water softener discharge, salt, chemicals, laundry soap, etc...).  This one here is for rain water:

 

 

Again... Pit is undersized, tight, even more so with back-up A/V and separate discharge.

 

Here's the pit when it rains heavy to moderate.  When it is dry... Pump only cycles 1-3 times a day!

 

Few things:  Green pump is back-up/booster., separate PVC discharge.  Notice cool clear, see-thru check valve... Found on Amazon.  Can tell when check valve is going bad! Cover over inlet was modded about 15 years ago to keep splashing down.  It's an old salad container cover... LoL!  The 1/8" inch tubing is an anti-airlock "splash tube" for back-up... Keeps splashing in pit down.

 

I want PLC to switch to high controller probes when it rains like this. Again, no mechanical floats, all electronic sensors here: 10/23/2017

 

 

Right now pump is only firing once a day, even if that!

 

 

 

Night and day... This was the month of December... There is 12/24 missing there because the idiots at PumpSpy must have took a few hours, during the Holidays, off from monitoring.  I lost connection at their end a few times today and on Christmas Eve. PumpSpy WiFi pump montitor, is a bit pricey ($150), but there is no monitoring fees/charges:

 

 

 

EDIT: ^^^That was a "forced" cycle above.  I unplugged controller and upon power retstore, pump fires.  Normal cycle is about 5 seconds not 1.  Then the screwy Christmas connection issues w/PumpSpy (Avon, Ohio)... Must be too much eggnog with the IT guys.

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by ExiledInIllinois

[Greybeard]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

 

    I sent you two messages with attachments.  Let me know if you received both.

[ExiledInIllinois]

30 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

 

    I sent you two messages with attachments.  Let me know if you received both.

Got them!  Danke!

[Nanker]

On 12/24/2017 at 8:37 AM, mead107 said:

How about expanding the hole. Bigger hole , diameter, and deeper.  2 feet of stone on bottom 12 inch pipe with holes (3 ft of pipe) on top of stone. pack 1 ft of stone around pipe.  

Will hold more water pump go on less.    Number 2 stone 

This is the correct answer. 

Bailing out a half pint reservoir ten thousand times a day with an electrically activated thimble isn’t a smart way to go. IMHO. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, Nanker said:

This is the correct answer. 

Bailing out a half pint reservoir ten thousand times a day with an electrically activated thimble isn’t a smart way to go. IMHO. 

Not sure why the builder undersized.  Okay I do.  They didn't know how the heavy clay soil would channel the water... And the house went in between two previous houses.  I think my foundation drain tile is slightly deeper than my neighbors and there's a high water table.  But not really, pump only runs a couple times a dat during dry spells.

 

The correct answer is to build a bigger pit so pump won't short cycle.

 

Yet... It's only a pump, nothing lasts forever.  I am on my third pump in 22 years... Technically, the original two still work.  Wore out numerous mechanical floats and one electronic float switch was worn out in about 10 years...

 

Got back-up, so it doesn't really matter... What's a nice pump? Only $200 or so.  Just trying to squeeze a few more years out of the electronic switch.

 

Changing a $200 pump every decade vs. Creating a major excavation project and still have to change pump and switch every other decade?  I'd love to just start digging, but what a hassle.

 

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Alright, so after you de-phrag the odometer, be sure to solder 3 input gestation to the amphitheater.  Have you even considered incorporating a folded-frequency Fourier Transfer?  Seems like the pump may metabolize the access point base station more directly.  Even if galvanic isolation occurs in the circuit dephragamator.

[ExiledInIllinois]

31 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Alright, so after you de-phrag the odometer, be sure to solder 3 input gestation to the amphitheater.  Have you even considered incorporating a folded-frequency Fourier Transfer?  Seems like the pump may metabolize the access point base station more directly.  Even if galvanic isolation occurs in the circuit dephragamator.

You'd make a hell of a guidance counselor, you missed your calling!

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You'd make a hell of a guidance counselor, you missed your calling!

 

Haha...

 

Don’t mind me, I’m just entertaining myself.  Good luck with your project