Josh Allen a Raw Jim Kelly?

[Ittakestime]

Allen is either on or off. Today he is on. He had another game like this where he looked incredible a month or so back. Wouldn't judge a QB on one or so game. He is still a project. I would take him if he fell to us in 20s, but he isn't a guy I am trading both 1sts for. If he played this good all year, then it would be a different story. 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....would that be BBall team or teacher's "ball team" you scoundrel??..........

 

That would be the basketball team 

 

i always had dreams of being pistol Pete...

 

and then I realized I was 5'10 so I stuck with football lol

[The Now Moment]

12 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Like Rudolph a lot. If he fell to us I would strongly consider him. The Bills are basically in a mode where we need to draft a QB every year and discard the last guy who isn't panning out. The search for a qb has to be paramount to all other positions. 

I guess the days of letting a QB develop for a year or two are gone?  KC did the smart thing and let Mahomes sit for a year to be groomed

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

That would be the basketball team 

 

i always had dreams of being pistol Pete...

 

and then I realized I was 5'10 so I stuck with football lol

...no doubt she wanted bigger...........

[Dkollidas]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

I guess the days of letting a QB develop for a year or two are gone?  KC did the smart thing and let Mahomes sit for a year to be groomed

 

I think the Bills will do the same. There will be so much QB movement this year we could end up with one of the Minnesota QB’s, McCarron if he’s available, possibly a guy like Alex Smith if he becomes available. 

[xRUSHx]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Mason Rudolph is an enigma...

 

He does have high end talent. Great size and he can spin the ball. Good to very good accuracy 

 

but his footwork has left a bit more to be desired. He tends to float balls when his footwork is off

 

and he operates from a true spread system. Numbers become inflated and receivers run wide open 

 

so I question if he can operate under center and perform 3-5 step drops on command

 

outside of his gimmicky offense and slight footwork problems he has everything you look for in a QB 

 

Size, toughness , arm talent, improvement year to tear

 

so I definitely think he falls into that 20-45 range and think he will get taken around there.

 

i would prefer him over Josh Allen 

Allen needs more work then Rudolph IMO. For one you can not teach accuracy and IMO Allen just does not seem like a kid that loves the game, I just feel like he is another Trent Edwards in the not really caring what happens type of attitude about football . Rudolph has the tools and just looks the part all the way around. Of course I like Rosen/Darnold more, in fact Mayfield is selling me more but to take Allen over Rudolph if the Bills do not move up I do not agree at all. IMO Rudolph is going to be a very good starter in the NFL while IMO Allen will be a full time backup possible starter in 2-3 years of development . I also do not like Jackson I am tired of the run first QB.

JMO on this post

Edited December 22, 2017 by xRUSHx

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

[Mat68]

Allen has made himself some money with this game.  He has every tool you want.  A little raw but has the potential to be special.  If I was Buffalo i would move into the top 5 for him.  I think he is the clear number 3 behind Rosen and Darnold but not that far off.    

[The Now Moment]

5 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

 

I think the Bills will do the same. There will be so much QB movement this year we could end up with one of the Minnesota QB’s, McCarron if he’s available, possibly a guy like Alex Smith if he becomes available. 

I'd get a rookie and another vet and groom the youngin

[Dkollidas]

1 minute ago, xRUSHx said:

Allen needs more work then Rudolph IMO. For one you can not teach accuracy and IMO Allen just does not seem like a kid that loves the game, I just feel like he is another Trent Edwards in the not really caring what happens type of attitude about football . Rudolph has the tools and just looks the part all the way around. Of course I like Rosen/Darnold more, in fact Mayfield is selling me more but to take Allen over Rudolph if the Bills do not move up I do not agree at all. IMO Rudolph is going to be a very good starter in the NFL while IMO Allen will be a full time backup. I also do not like Jackson I am tired of the run first QB.

JMO on this post

I like Rudolph a bit more than most as well. I was watching someone on YouTube analyze their game with Oklahoma, and Mayfield is making throws and there’s no one near him. Rudolph is throwing to guys and they are covered. He makes the hard throws look easy, the sideline passes, the deep balls, and I think as he gains experience in an nfl system he has enough touch on the ball to make those simple dump off type throws in the 5-10 yd range as well

[The Now Moment]

2 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Allen has made himself some money with this game.  He has every tool you want.  A little raw but has the potential to be special.  If I was Buffalo i would move into the top 5 for him.  I think he is the clear number 3 behind Rosen and Darnold but not that far off.    

I agree with this.  I think he'd benefit from a year of sitting behind a vet too

3 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

I like Rudolph a bit more than most as well. I was watching someone on YouTube analyze their game with Oklahoma, and Mayfield is making throws and there’s no one near him. Rudolph is throwing to guys and they are covered. He makes the hard throws look easy, the sideline passes, the deep balls, and I think as he gains experience in an nfl system he has enough touch on the ball to make those simple dump off type throws in the 5-10 yd range as well

He struggled hard against TCU and Oklahoma.  Very inconsistent

[Dkollidas]

Exactly. That’s what I meant was to get a veteran to put in front of a rookie for a year, or possibly two. Someone like Bridgewater might become your franchise guy, but I wouldn’t be upset about that if he did

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

Allen needs more work then Rudolph IMO. For one you can not teach accuracy and IMO Allen just does not seem like a kid that loves the game, I just feel like he is another Trent Edwards in the not really caring what happens type of attitude about football . Rudolph has the tools and just looks the part all the way around. Of course I like Rosen/Darnold more, in fact Mayfield is selling me more but to take Allen over Rudolph if the Bills do not move up I do not agree at all. IMO Rudolph is going to be a very good starter in the NFL while IMO Allen will be a full time backup. I also do not like Jackson I am tired of the run first QB.

JMO on this post

 

I said that I like Rudolph more than Allen and that he's more polished

10 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...no doubt she wanted bigger...........

 

[xRUSHx]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I said that I like Rudolph more than Allen and that he's more polished

Sorry man I must have misunderstood your post because I took it that you would take Allen over Rudolph if the choice was there.

Edit. I just re-read it, my bad man

Edited December 22, 2017 by xRUSHx

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I said that I like Rudolph more than Allen and that he's more polished

 

....so Rudolph at 20ish wouldn't be a bad deal?...............

[Dkollidas]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

 

He struggled hard against TCU and Oklahoma.  Very inconsistent

All of the guys coming out have their inconsistencies. 

 

-Rosen forced things and put UCLA in bad positions when trying to do too much. 

 

-Darnold turned the ball over on an average of almost 1per game and had I believe 8 fumbles? That’s a real concern.

 

-Allen couldn’t complete 60% of his passes, played down against any real competition, and seems to have a tough time making the easy throws.

 

-Mayfield has had his issues not so much with his play, but with the off-field issues and the crotch-grabbing incident and the flag staking in Ohio St. And while people constantly complain about the system Rudolph plays in, Mayfield also plays in a similar spread system, so his numbers can be questioned as wel in that regard.

 

-Drew Lock lead the FBS in TD passes with 40+, but struggled with accuracy as he completed less than 60% of his passes, and seemed to put up big numbers against lesser opponents.

(Threw him in there because I believe there’s a decent chance he’ll come out as well).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

All of the guys coming out have their inconsistencies. 

 

-Rosen forced things and put UCLA in bad positions when trying to do too much. 

 

-Darnold turned the ball over on an average of almost 1per game and had I believe 8 fumbles? That’s a real concern.

 

-Allen couldn’t complete 60% of his passes, played down against any real competition, and seems to have a tough time making the easy throws.

 

-Mayfield has had his issues not so much with his play, but with the off-field issues and the crotch-grabbing incident and the flag staking in Ohio St. And while people constantly complain about the system Rudolph plays in, Mayfield also plays in a similar spread system, so his numbers can be questioned as wel in that regard.

 

-Drew Lock lead the FBS in TD passes with 40+, but struggled with accuracy as he completed less than 60% of his passes, and seemed to put up big numbers against lesser opponents.

(Threw him in there because I believe there’s a decent chance he’ll come out as well).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes but Rudolph is in a Mike Gundy system that inflates a QBs stats.  I've watched Rudolph play a lot and he completes a short pass that his receivers take for a touchdown and it inflates his stats.  Remember Brandon Weeden?? Yeah same system.  I know you know that.  He has footwork issues, lacks a big arm, and didn't show up in big games this year.  Put up absolute duds in a handful of games this year.  Not a big fan.  He doesn't excite me at all.  

 

Rosen is a great pocket passer who can hit the timing passes better than any of the other QBs.  His traits translate to the NFL the best.  

 

Darnold has had stuggles with turnovers but he's had some great NFL type throws.  With the right coaching, he'll be a star.  His Penn state game was eye-opening last year.  

 

Allen has no talent around him at all.  You can't just look at the stats with him.  Watching him play several games he's shown me a wow factor too often to pass on him.  He has the best arm in this class by a mile.  He certainly needs grooming and some time behind a vet but he can be great.

 

Mayfield has a bunch of questions and I'm not that high on him myself.  I think he's the fourth QB in this class.

 

I think Drew may come out but we will see.

[Dkollidas]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

Yes but Rudolph is in a Mike Gundy system that inflates a QBs stats.  I've watched Rudolph play a lot and he completes a short pass that his receivers take for a touchdown and it inflates his stats.  Remember Brandon Weeden?? Yeah same system.  I know you know that.  He has footwork issues, lacks a big arm, and didn't show up in big games this year.  Put up absolute duds in a handful of games this year.  Not a big fan.  He doesn't excite me at all.  

 

Rosen is a great pocket passer who can hit the timing passes better than any of the other QBs.  His traits translate to the NFL the best.  

 

Darnold has had stuggles with turnovers but he's had some great NFL type throws.  With the right coaching, he'll be a star.  His Penn state game was eye-opening last year.  

 

Allen has no talent around him at all.  You can't just look at the stats with him.  Watching him play several games he's shown me a wow factor too often to pass on him.  He has the best arm in this class by a mile.  He certainly needs grooming and some time behind a vet but he can be great.

 

Mayfield has a bunch of questions and I'm not that high on him myself.  I think he's the fourth QB in this class.

 

I think Drew may come out but we will see.

 

I agree with you on most of it. I just think Rudolph has some potential, but that’s just my estimate. I could be totally wrong.

 

honestly I’m hoping the Giants amaze everyone and either trade down or take Barkley and the Bills are able to move up and take Darnold. It’s a hope and a dream, but it’s possible. 

[Buffalo716]

14 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....so Rudolph at 20ish wouldn't be a bad deal?...............

 

Right now I may like Baker a bit more as a QB but I think both are right around that range and it wouldn't be a reach

 

Bakers flaws are more height and if he can mature.

 

Rudolph will have to refine some lower body mechanics and work on 3 step drops under center 

 

but both have traits that scouts love in a QB

 

I think Baker sees the field better though 

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

 

I agree with you on most of it. I just think Rudolph has some potential, but that’s just my estimate. I could be totally wrong.

 

honestly I’m hoping the Giants amaze everyone and either trade down or take Barkley and the Bills are able to move up and take Darnold. It’s a hope and a dream, but it’s possible. 

We can only hope the Giants do something stupid haha.  I've just seen Rudolph in a lot of games and been left very unimpressed with his body of work really.  I don't like his arm.  Don't think he has first round talent.  See him as a second round guy.