“Fighting for our freedom?”

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Justice said:

IMO that’s a whole other argument. We didn’t have to do many of the things we did post 9/11. They got lucky that day. All we had to do was tighten up the cockpit doors and make sure we keep fighter jets on stand by. The terrorists win that way. 

 

Completely disagree.

We had to do a lot more than that.

[KD in CA]

5 hours ago, Justice said:

IMO that’s a whole other argument. We didn’t have to do many of the things we did post 9/11. They got lucky that day. All we had to do was tighten up the cockpit doors and make sure we keep fighter jets on stand by. The terrorists win that way. Besides, what does that have to do with our military fighting for our freedom as of today? That phrase is still being used. 

We didn’t lose our freedom at all and that’s my point. Nor were we in risk of losing it on that tragic and unfortunate day. 

 

Matter of fact I’m gonna go ahead and say most here doesn’t even know what it feels like to not have freedom, so maybe that’s why you can insinuate that we lost some. I, on the other hand, know first hand what it feels like. My American citizenship and passport means nothing in the West Bank. 

 

Come on, that's absurd.   The problem wasn't cockpit doors.  The problem was 20 guys freely coming in and out of the country, training, planning, getting funded and executing the whole thing right on the doorstep without anyone paying any attention to them.

[Justice]

27 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

Come on, that's absurd.   The problem wasn't cockpit doors.  The problem was 20 guys freely coming in and out of the country, training, planning, getting funded and executing the whole thing right on the doorstep without anyone paying any attention to them.

Yeah. That too. I ain’t gonna argue with that. 

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

Come on, that's absurd.   The problem wasn't cockpit doors.  The problem was 20 guys freely coming in and out of the country, training, planning, getting funded and executing the whole thing right on the doorstep without anyone paying any attention to them.

 

And taking advantage of a hijacking protocol that gave them everything they needed.  

 

People forget that.  It was a really smart plan.

[3rdnlng]

53 minutes ago, Justice said:

Yeah. That too. I ain’t gonna argue with that. 

So, you agree that tightening cockpit doors isn't all we need to do and our freedom has been curtailed due to these attacks (and others)?

[Justice]

1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said:

So, you agree that tightening cockpit doors isn't all we need to do and our freedom has been curtailed due to these attacks (and others)?

Yes, I agree tightening the cockpit doors isn’t all that was needed. We’re still free as hell. Like I said before go to a place that doesn’t have freedom. Spend some time there then come back and tell me we’re missing some forms of freedom. 

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, Justice said:

Yes, I agree tightening the cockpit doors isn’t all that was needed. We’re still free as hell. Like I said before go to a place that doesn’t have freedom. Spend some time there then come back and tell me we’re missing some forms of freedom. 

So what you are saying is that losing a little bit of freedom is ok?

[Justice]

8 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

So what you are saying is that losing a little bit of freedom is ok?

Nope. What I’m saying is we didn’t have to lose any at all. 

[sherpa]

16 minutes ago, Justice said:

Yes, I agree tightening the cockpit doors isn’t all that was needed. 

 

And the legal ability, desire and infrastructure for intel and legal agencies to share information and cooperate with each other both domestically and around the world.

And some kind of realistic passport/visa control.

And No Fly lists.

And forensic accounting around the world with an eye towards terrorism.

And far more attention at high vis events.

And far more restrictions on cargo carriage and prohibitions.

And killing al-Qaeda operatives.

And disallowing states to allow known terrorist training camps.

[Justice]

Do you feel more free after 9/11 and the two wars that followed? If you answered no then they failed to fight for our freedom successfully. 

[3rdnlng]

12 minutes ago, Justice said:

Do you feel more free after 9/11 and the two wars that followed? If you answered no then they failed to fight for our freedom successfully. 

So, because our freedoms haven't expanded since 9/11 everything we've done is a failure?

[sherpa]

There is a cost to understanding and making adjustments as part of the survival instinct. 

Putting up with certain things may be worth a greater feeling of confidence that you are under less of a threat, and allowing certain industries to exist.

[Justice]

1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said:

So, because our freedoms haven't expanded since 9/11 everything we've done is a failure?

Ah. I see what you’re trying to do here. Lol

[Cinga]

On 12/22/2017 at 8:58 AM, Justice said:

I’ve heard this phrase countless times in my life and I just don’t get it. It’s a serious question. We haven’t been attacked on our soil here in the states since Pearl Harbor. Can someone please explain it to me? 

Your not serious, or maybe have no idea of history.... But why do we have to be attacked directly on our soil to justify retaliation?

 

Go back the the Barbary Wars against Islamic Pirates... Should we have just laid down and paid ransoms and "tribute"  like other nations at the time did? In the second war, we fought and freed ALL hostages of the time from all nations, even those under the Union Jack who we had just beat again too... Why??? None of this was a direct threat to the US homeland? So why?

Because it's who we are as Americans.... That term many hate is real... "American Exceptionalism" from day one is what made this country what it is

 

 

[westerndecline]

5 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

Come on, that's absurd.   The problem wasn't cockpit doors.  The problem was 20 guys freely coming in and out of the country, training, planning, getting funded and executing the whole thing right on the doorstep without anyone paying any attention to them.

Really makes you wonder doesn't it FBI was warning the CIA constantly... this is around the same time the administration that was in power had close family ties and business ties with the funding that gave 911 any real chance

 

....

Not to mention they named who the terrorist was literally minutes after it happened

 

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by westerndecline

[Justice]

1 hour ago, Cinga said:

Your not serious, or maybe have no idea of history.... But why do we have to be attacked directly on our soil to justify retaliation?

 

Go back the the Barbary Wars against Islamic Pirates... Should we have just laid down and paid ransoms and "tribute"  like other nations at the time did? In the second war, we fought and freed ALL hostages of the time from all nations, even those under the Union Jack who we had just beat again too... Why??? None of this was a direct threat to the US homeland? So why?

Because it's who we are as Americans.... That term many hate is real... "American Exceptionalism" from day one is what made this country what it is

 

 

What the hell is happening here?? 

[3rdnlng]

42 minutes ago, westerndecline said:

Really makes you wonder doesn't it FBI was warning the CIA constantly... this is around the same time the administration that was in power had close family ties and business ties with the funding that gave 911 any real chance

 

....Not to mention they named who the terrorist was literally minutes after it happen
ed

 

So did I, you idiot. Does that mean I was complicit in it?

[westerndecline]

3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

So did I, you idiot. Does that mean I was complicit in it?

There's a difference between an educated guess as a random citizen and then government that actually has to give out statements that actually have credibility not guess work

 

 

It's actually an indictment of something much worse and nefarious

[GG]

26 minutes ago, Justice said:

What the hell is happening here?? 

He's giving you a history lesson. 

[Justice]

1 hour ago, GG said:

He's giving you a history lesson. 

Maybe he should take some history lessons on this thread. I never once questioned whether retaliation was justifiable or not. Ppl putting words in my mouth. Not cool. 

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by Justice