sherpa Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 On 12/24/2017 at 4:22 PM, Justice said: IMO that’s a whole other argument. We didn’t have to do many of the things we did post 9/11. They got lucky that day. All we had to do was tighten up the cockpit doors and make sure we keep fighter jets on stand by. The terrorists win that way. Expand Completely disagree. We had to do a lot more than that.
KD in CA Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 On 12/24/2017 at 4:22 PM, Justice said: IMO that’s a whole other argument. We didn’t have to do many of the things we did post 9/11. They got lucky that day. All we had to do was tighten up the cockpit doors and make sure we keep fighter jets on stand by. The terrorists win that way. Besides, what does that have to do with our military fighting for our freedom as of today? That phrase is still being used. We didn’t lose our freedom at all and that’s my point. Nor were we in risk of losing it on that tragic and unfortunate day. Matter of fact I’m gonna go ahead and say most here doesn’t even know what it feels like to not have freedom, so maybe that’s why you can insinuate that we lost some. I, on the other hand, know first hand what it feels like. My American citizenship and passport means nothing in the West Bank. Expand Come on, that's absurd. The problem wasn't cockpit doors. The problem was 20 guys freely coming in and out of the country, training, planning, getting funded and executing the whole thing right on the doorstep without anyone paying any attention to them.
Justice Posted December 24, 2017 Author Posted December 24, 2017 On 12/24/2017 at 9:52 PM, KD in CA said: Come on, that's absurd. The problem wasn't cockpit doors. The problem was 20 guys freely coming in and out of the country, training, planning, getting funded and executing the whole thing right on the doorstep without anyone paying any attention to them. Expand Yeah. That too. I ain’t gonna argue with that.
DC Tom Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 On 12/24/2017 at 9:52 PM, KD in CA said: Come on, that's absurd. The problem wasn't cockpit doors. The problem was 20 guys freely coming in and out of the country, training, planning, getting funded and executing the whole thing right on the doorstep without anyone paying any attention to them. Expand And taking advantage of a hijacking protocol that gave them everything they needed. People forget that. It was a really smart plan.
3rdnlng Posted December 24, 2017 Posted December 24, 2017 On 12/24/2017 at 10:20 PM, Justice said: Yeah. That too. I ain’t gonna argue with that. Expand So, you agree that tightening cockpit doors isn't all we need to do and our freedom has been curtailed due to these attacks (and others)?
Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/24/2017 at 11:15 PM, 3rdnlng said: So, you agree that tightening cockpit doors isn't all we need to do and our freedom has been curtailed due to these attacks (and others)? Expand Yes, I agree tightening the cockpit doors isn’t all that was needed. We’re still free as hell. Like I said before go to a place that doesn’t have freedom. Spend some time there then come back and tell me we’re missing some forms of freedom.
3rdnlng Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/25/2017 at 12:49 AM, Justice said: Yes, I agree tightening the cockpit doors isn’t all that was needed. We’re still free as hell. Like I said before go to a place that doesn’t have freedom. Spend some time there then come back and tell me we’re missing some forms of freedom. Expand So what you are saying is that losing a little bit of freedom is ok?
Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/25/2017 at 12:55 AM, 3rdnlng said: So what you are saying is that losing a little bit of freedom is ok? Expand Nope. What I’m saying is we didn’t have to lose any at all.
sherpa Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/25/2017 at 12:49 AM, Justice said: Yes, I agree tightening the cockpit doors isn’t all that was needed. Expand And the legal ability, desire and infrastructure for intel and legal agencies to share information and cooperate with each other both domestically and around the world. And some kind of realistic passport/visa control. And No Fly lists. And forensic accounting around the world with an eye towards terrorism. And far more attention at high vis events. And far more restrictions on cargo carriage and prohibitions. And killing al-Qaeda operatives. And disallowing states to allow known terrorist training camps.
Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Posted December 25, 2017 Do you feel more free after 9/11 and the two wars that followed? If you answered no then they failed to fight for our freedom successfully.
3rdnlng Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/25/2017 at 1:22 AM, Justice said: Do you feel more free after 9/11 and the two wars that followed? If you answered no then they failed to fight for our freedom successfully. Expand So, because our freedoms haven't expanded since 9/11 everything we've done is a failure?
sherpa Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 There is a cost to understanding and making adjustments as part of the survival instinct. Putting up with certain things may be worth a greater feeling of confidence that you are under less of a threat, and allowing certain industries to exist.
Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/25/2017 at 1:41 AM, 3rdnlng said: So, because our freedoms haven't expanded since 9/11 everything we've done is a failure? Expand Ah. I see what you’re trying to do here. Lol
Cinga Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 1:58 PM, Justice said: I’ve heard this phrase countless times in my life and I just don’t get it. It’s a serious question. We haven’t been attacked on our soil here in the states since Pearl Harbor. Can someone please explain it to me? Expand Your not serious, or maybe have no idea of history.... But why do we have to be attacked directly on our soil to justify retaliation? Go back the the Barbary Wars against Islamic Pirates... Should we have just laid down and paid ransoms and "tribute" like other nations at the time did? In the second war, we fought and freed ALL hostages of the time from all nations, even those under the Union Jack who we had just beat again too... Why??? None of this was a direct threat to the US homeland? So why? Because it's who we are as Americans.... That term many hate is real... "American Exceptionalism" from day one is what made this country what it is
westerndecline Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 (edited) On 12/24/2017 at 9:52 PM, KD in CA said: Come on, that's absurd. The problem wasn't cockpit doors. The problem was 20 guys freely coming in and out of the country, training, planning, getting funded and executing the whole thing right on the doorstep without anyone paying any attention to them. Expand Really makes you wonder doesn't it FBI was warning the CIA constantly... this is around the same time the administration that was in power had close family ties and business ties with the funding that gave 911 any real chance .... Not to mention they named who the terrorist was literally minutes after it happened Edited December 25, 2017 by westerndecline
Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/25/2017 at 2:57 AM, Cinga said: Your not serious, or maybe have no idea of history.... But why do we have to be attacked directly on our soil to justify retaliation? Go back the the Barbary Wars against Islamic Pirates... Should we have just laid down and paid ransoms and "tribute" like other nations at the time did? In the second war, we fought and freed ALL hostages of the time from all nations, even those under the Union Jack who we had just beat again too... Why??? None of this was a direct threat to the US homeland? So why? Because it's who we are as Americans.... That term many hate is real... "American Exceptionalism" from day one is what made this country what it is Expand What the hell is happening here??
3rdnlng Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/25/2017 at 3:46 AM, westerndecline said: Really makes you wonder doesn't it FBI was warning the CIA constantly... this is around the same time the administration that was in power had close family ties and business ties with the funding that gave 911 any real chance ....Not to mention they named who the terrorist was literally minutes after it happen ed Expand So did I, you idiot. Does that mean I was complicit in it?
westerndecline Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/25/2017 at 4:30 AM, 3rdnlng said: So did I, you idiot. Does that mean I was complicit in it? Expand There's a difference between an educated guess as a random citizen and then government that actually has to give out statements that actually have credibility not guess work It's actually an indictment of something much worse and nefarious
GG Posted December 25, 2017 Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/25/2017 at 4:27 AM, Justice said: What the hell is happening here?? Expand He's giving you a history lesson.
Justice Posted December 25, 2017 Author Posted December 25, 2017 (edited) On 12/25/2017 at 4:54 AM, GG said: He's giving you a history lesson. Expand Maybe he should take some history lessons on this thread. I never once questioned whether retaliation was justifiable or not. Ppl putting words in my mouth. Not cool. Edited December 25, 2017 by Justice
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