Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 To defend the OP, it would be one thing if the Bills made the conscious effort to limit passing yards in favor of more of a run-first ball control offense. But I don't think that's necessarily case. The QB play over the last, oh, I don't know, 21 years, has been bad. These QB's are not really capable of putting together 4 solid quarters of good passing. Look at a guy like Garappolo-- he goes into a new offense and throws for 300 yards in his first three games quite effortlessly. He's good. Our QBs-- not so much. 4
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Steptide said: Last Sunday the bills threw alot on that first drive and scored. They were able to open up the run game a little, but then for whatever reason they stopped in the 2nd half. Probably because we had a lead and McDermott loves to run out the clock in the 3rd quarter. They need to be more aggressive. I give them credit for taking some deep shots in the 2nd half, but they have to be a little more creative Not saying I disagree with this, but that could also come back to bite you in the butt. There was one series where I believe the Bills went 3 @ out in the second half with three consecutive passes, and I think they were inside their own 20. I was a bit annoyed by that as it happened, considering the score, although I'm sure the Dolphins were expecting runs, and hindsight is 20/20. Perhaps the idea to pass in that situation could have been beneficial, and that the plays themselves could have been better, while still passing. But it was one series that aided the Dolphins in making a game out of what could have been a blowout. An untimely turnover there could have changed the outcome. The Taylor INT on the opening drive against NE changed that game, although very early. The defense was stout in the first half, but instead of adding 3 or 7 points on the drive, they got zero. It was 9-3 at the half iirc, but it could have looked much different if not for the decision to pass there (it was a terrible play by Taylor, but it could have been avoided altogether). Of course, you can always fumble when running the ball, but sometimes the best way to avoid a critical mistake from happening is to minimize that possiblity greatly by making smarter play calls.
LABILLBACKER Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 35 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said: Who cares about wins? As long as we get 300 yards passing, all is well! You do realize this team is built around running the ball, right? 6th in rushing 23rd in points 29th in yardage running really racks up those points.....throw the damn ball or expect 8-8 every year... 1
Rob's House Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 The fact that we almost never have a 300 yd passing game is syptomatic of our inability to come back once we get down. Throwing for 300 yds isn't the goal, but the fact that it never happens, even when we're losing big, is an indication that we can't pass when we need to. 2
BillsVet Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, jr1 said: the Saints are better with more running plays No doubt the Saints are a much more balanced team running the ball with Ingram and Kamara. That said, the Bills aren't really a balanced offense. Including the half he played in LA, Tyrod is averaging 28 attempts for about 185 yards per game in 2017. Compare that to about the same number of attempts in 2015, but 30 yards more passing per game. (EDIT: TT was averaging about 8 yards per attempt in 2015. Now he's at about 6.5. I don't put that on Dennison, but teams taking away the deep sideline pass TT was attempting and completing). It's hard to watch other teams throwing the ball down-field and Buffalo not having done that in years. It doesn't guarantee wins, but it's more entertaining football. Yet, in a ball control grind it out type offense, we're not going to see it with this QB. 12 minutes ago, klos63 said: One of the most significant statistics in regards to wins and losses is the takeaway number. We are one of the top teams in that statistic and it's are reason why we are in a playoff battle now. Buffalo is now tied with NE and the Chargers for 5th with a +7 in turnover differential. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake Interesting to see Baltimore and Kansas City ahead of the Bills. Edited December 21, 2017 by BillsVet 1
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: To defend the OP, it would be one thing if the Bills made the conscious effort to limit passing yards in favor of more of a run-first ball control offense. But I don't think that's necessarily case. The QB play over the last, oh, I don't know, 21 years, has been bad. These QB's are not really capable of putting together 4 solid quarters of good passing. Look at a guy like Garappolo-- he goes into a new offense and throws for 300 yards in his first three games quite effortlessly. He's good. Our QBs-- not so much. Two factors there: 1) He has a very good offensive coordinator/HC. 2) Jimmy G is the real deal. My posts weren't so much as "defending Taylor" as they were critiquing the OP. We all know what Taylor is and isn't. But give the Bills Jimmy G and his coach, and our offense is completely different. We would likely see some 300+ yard passing games, but we'd still need the defense to do it's part, as well as the run game, in order to win more than lose. Having that kind of QB play certainly helps tremendously, but you cannot simply point to passing yards and say that's THE REASON WHY they won. SF beat the Titans in part because of the passing on the final drive, but also because the other facet of the TEAM contributed. Their TEAM made more plays than the Titans as a TEAM. Terrible defense by the Titans on the final drive was the difference in the end. 1
Cugalabanza Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, mjt328 said: 2. If the Bills happen to fall behind by 2+ scores, and the offense is forced to pass -- those are the games that Taylor struggles badly with taking sacks, decision-making and accuracy. When the threat to rush is gone, he just isn't good enough to carry the team with his arm. This is the fundamental problem in my opinion. I'm still holding out hope that this team can eke out a big win and sneak into the playoffs. However, this team's offense is pretty much dysfunctional. They get by when the defense plays great and takes the ball away. And when Shady is able to make a few big plays. If it's a shoot-out type of game or if the Bills fall behind, forget it.
Shaw66 Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 27 minutes ago, mjt328 said: 2. If the Bills happen to fall behind by 2+ scores, and the offense is forced to pass -- those are the games that Taylor struggles badly with taking sacks, decision-making and accuracy. When the threat to rush is gone, he just isn't good enough to carry the team with his arm. Actually Taylor's 4th quarter stats are just fine. In fact people complain that when the Bills are down two scores he pads his stats. The problem is either Taylor is good but the coaches are stubborn and narrow in their outlook or Taylor isn't good and so the coaches limit his throwing. I trip l it's mostly the former.
prissythecat Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 Do passing yards strongly correlate with wins? They don't. So the obsession with 300 yard passing games is misplaced. Here is one of many articles analyzing what stats are better indicators for winning: https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2014/6/15/5753028/nfl-ranking-stats-crunching-numbers-under-further-review-part-iii-iv
Patrick Duffy Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said: From the offense. You would think by accident any NFL QB can throw for 300 yards in a game. I've posted this again and again and am just confounded, perplexed and stupefied that this team can't/won't have a game plan that has them throwing for 300 yards (heck 250 would be something) EVER!!!!! The NFL over and over is a game that comes down to getting the ball in the endzone and being CAPABLE of throwing the ball. There is not a single team that can count on winning games 20-17 that has any chance for success. Why do we have a coaching staff who refuses to recognize this? And no it is not all TT's fault. I don't care if they only have 100 passing yards, as long as they win.
Big Gun Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 25 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said: Two factors there: 1) He has a very good offensive coordinator/HC. 2) Jimmy G is the real deal. My posts weren't so much as "defending Taylor" as they were critiquing the OP. We all know what Taylor is and isn't. But give the Bills Jimmy G and his coach, and our offense is completely different. We would likely see some 300+ yard passing games, but we'd still need the defense to do it's part, as well as the run game, in order to win more than lose. Having that kind of QB play certainly helps tremendously, but you cannot simply point to passing yards and say that's THE REASON WHY they won. SF beat the Titans in part because of the passing on the final drive, but also because the other facet of the TEAM contributed. Their TEAM made more plays than the Titans as a TEAM. Terrible defense by the Titans on the final drive was the difference in the end. Put Garappolo on the Bills this year and IMO he has multiple 300 yard games. Is it the QB or the coaches? I tend to think the QB stinks, not that the OC is great but it's hard to gameplan and be a successful OC when you work with junk at the QB.
KGun12TD Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 I wish there was a thread that said "WHY CAN'T WE WIN GAMES and MAKE THE PLAYOFFS." Yes, that would be a nice thread.
GoBills! Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 Drew brees has only thrown for over 300 3 times this year and one time was for a loss. All other games he failed to reach 300 yards. They have two awesome RBs and are a run first time now as well.
Lfod Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) I don't mind being a run heavy offence. I don't think it's by choice. I think we should have some sort of passing game before setting goals on how many yards that passing game can aquire. Baby steps. Edited December 21, 2017 by Lfod
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 50 minutes ago, Cugalabanza said: This is the fundamental problem in my opinion. I'm still holding out hope that this team can eke out a big win and sneak into the playoffs. However, this team's offense is pretty much dysfunctional. They get by when the defense plays great and takes the ball away. And when Shady is able to make a few big plays. If it's a shoot-out type of game or if the Bills fall behind, forget it. No way to really argue this. The record when down by 4+ points speaks for itself.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: From the offense. You would think by accident any NFL QB can throw for 300 yards in a game. I've posted this again and again and am just confounded, perplexed and stupefied that this team can't/won't have a game plan that has them throwing for 300 yards (heck 250 would be something) EVER!!!!! The NFL over and over is a game that comes down to getting the ball in the endzone and being CAPABLE of throwing the ball. There is not a single team that can count on winning games 20-17 that has any chance for success. Why do we have a coaching staff who refuses to recognize this? And no it is not all TT's fault. TT had a 300yd+ game last year. We lost. Edited December 21, 2017 by PromoTheRobot
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 31 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said: Put Garappolo on the Bills this year and IMO he has multiple 300 yard games. Is it the QB or the coaches? I tend to think the QB stinks, not that the OC is great but it's hard to gameplan and be a successful OC when you work with junk at the QB. I don't think Taylor "stinks", he's just not as consistent as we'd like, and defenses that know how to defend his game force him to check down or cause hesitation to throw, flustering him and create sacks. I would point to previous Bills QBs that "stink", but Taylor is certainly on a lower tier than guys like Garrappolo, Dalton, Smith, etc., as far as being a pure passer goes. Still, his ability as a runner is a nice part of his game, and should be considered.
Jobot Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) deleted Edited December 21, 2017 by Jobot deleted
MJS Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: From the offense. You would think by accident any NFL QB can throw for 300 yards in a game. I've posted this again and again and am just confounded, perplexed and stupefied that this team can't/won't have a game plan that has them throwing for 300 yards (heck 250 would be something) EVER!!!!! The NFL over and over is a game that comes down to getting the ball in the endzone and being CAPABLE of throwing the ball. There is not a single team that can count on winning games 20-17 that has any chance for success. Why do we have a coaching staff who refuses to recognize this? And no it is not all TT's fault. Wow. The Bills are 8-6 and have a good shot at getting in the playoffs. They have serious deficiencies at a lot of positions, including QB. The coaches are doing what they can with a team that lacks talent. And, by the way, it is working. We had no business getting to 8 wins with all the changes and turnover of the roster.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, GoBills! said: Drew brees has only thrown for over 300 3 times this year and one time was for a loss. All other games he failed to reach 300 yards. They have two awesome RBs and are a run first time now as well. saints 18 rushing tds to the bills 11. saints 3rd in points 1st in total yds 5th in rush yds and 4th in pass yds. bills 23rd in points 29th in total yds 6th in rush yds and 32nd in passing yds passing yards are not anymore or less important than rush yards. what's important is sustaining drives and scoring points. I don't believe I would use drew brees or the saints as an example to prove any point here.
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