T-Bomb Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Well, they have already won too many games to draft a franchise QB, so sure, why not stay in QB purgatory for a few more years? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Jasovon said: No way, we draft a QB in the first round and build for the future. Who is this unicorn of a QB that you refer to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, matter2003 said: HELL No. All that will do is ensure we finish 7-9 to 9-7 every year. You don't pay franchise money for a non-franchise player, IMHO...he would also ensure we finish between 7-9 and 9-7 every year, albeit while putting up "stats" You do know he. Fought a terrible skins team to 2 playoff runs right? They stripped him of lol his receivers this year and he still did pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasovon Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Just now, yungmack said: Who is this unicorn of a QB that you refer to? No idea but i'll tell you who it isn't and that's Tyrod Taylor. Need to at least try to get a QB in here. Look at the Texans or 49ers for an example of the difference that makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 minute ago, yungmack said: Who is this unicorn of a QB that you refer to? I bet you once called Geoff & Wentz unicorns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said: Outside perspective, but shouldn't that all be based off of WHO you can get for a QB? I mean what if Cousins is willing to go to Buffalo? He is a HUGE upgrade at QB and you can then spend your draft capital on WR and D line. If that happened and I was GM I bundle my 2 first round picks and move up to get one of the top pass rushers and then use my second round pick on a WR. This strange fixation on Cousins continues to puzzle me. Changing Cousins for TT is the old Titanic deck chairs maneuver. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 minute ago, yungmack said: This strange fixation on Cousins continues to puzzle me. Changing Cousins for TT is the old Titanic deck chairs maneuver. He has led the skins to 2 playoff appearances and they were not very good teams. This year he had no WR and they were setting him up to fail since they didn't want to pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 11 hours ago, hemma said: Get him out of here. People. Amen ... we have seen Tyrod Taylor’s ceiling and I am tired of this whole thought process around the acceptance of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: This is what happened last season. He played a couple of decent games at the end of the year and everyone was on the Tyrod train. "Draft defense and he will get us into the playoffs", "the light has come on", "he isn't the problem". The truth us Tyrod is still what he was year one. His season by season performances actually deviate very little. He will have spells where he plays good football (he particularly seems to enjoy playing the Dolphins for some reason) and games where he really struggles to move the offense. And when you strip the context and the other factors away that is still the truth you are left with. He is a serviceable, capable NFL starting Quarterback. What he isn't is a guy who will ever give you a chance to be a contender. Could he have that one year where it all clicks with a good supporting cast - "the Keenum effect" - yes he could. But you have to play the percentages and drafting around him to hope for the lightening in a bottle type season is not a sensible approach. Even despite the difficulty in finding a true franchise QB the odds of that are greater than the lightening in a bottle. Tyrod was not THE problem in 2015 or 2016..... he hasn't been THE problem in 2017 either. But his play does not raise the level of those around him and when that is what you are saying about your Quarterback it is A problem. I have no problem at all with keeping Tyrod for the final year of his deal in 2018 as the bridge / backup to your rookie Quarterback. I don't think either side has much of an appetite for that to happen though. Tyrod probably feels like he has played well enough to have the opportunity to start for a different team in 2018 who don't see him as a sitting duck.... but the teams rumoured to be interested last summer were the teams we all knew were going to be bad - Cleveland, Chicago, Denver, New York Jets..... I suspect the market for him looks similar this offseason too. That might still be preferable to Tyrod than being here as the sitting duck for a staff, fanbase and organisation that doesn't truly believe in him in 2018. I get what you are saying......he's no Peyton Manning.........but QB's that ACTUALLY elevate the level of the team around them the way you are talking about.....in 2017?......those are incredibly rare. Taylor elevated the level of the offense in 2015 and 2016 though.......no doubt about it.........and he has not hurt the defense a bit because he doesn't turn the ball over. That ain't too !@#$ing bad in todays NFL. The biggest issue this season was removing the deep ball from the equation. They simply can't get open deep, let alone make a play when the ball gets there and that is the one throw that Taylor makes at a very high level. Everyone knows it and subsequently action past 15 yards downfield gets little attention from the defense. Subsequently the LOS is jammed up........McCoy is struggling for yardage and taking a career worst pounding and Taylor is being asked to dink and dunk down the field with an inadequate WR corps........that is a square peg-round hole. Taylor isn't a franchise QB and while he can't throw bad receivers open like Brady and Rodgers and......well that's about it in the NFL right now........if you give Taylor good downfield receivers and a scheme that plays to his strengths I think he can lead a top 5 scoring offense despite a poor pass blocking OL.....and do it while not turn the ball over. Hard to envision where teaming that with a top defense wouldn't lead to SB contention. My guess is that they will let Taylor go, whiff on Cousins, draft the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft after an unsuccessful trade-up attempt..........stage a QB competition between rookie and Peterman and maybe a veteran stiff(I doubt they go the Glennon route and pay the $15M-$20M for one of the Vikings guys)......and then field a gawd-awful offense that turns the ball over at a high rate in 2018. Alex Smith is the other option and he's at best a lateral move from Taylor. Situation has some of the feel of the way Fitzpatrick release came down.........Taylor is better than Fitz.....but had the Bills kept Fitz for Marrone year one they almost certainly make the playoffs that year. That situation was handled very poorly. If the Bills were to keep Taylor, draft a QB in round 1 and add a couple legit deep threats I think that helps the present and the future. And is actually do-able. Objectively seems like the soundest option right now unless one believes that Cousins is coming to Buffalo which I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, T-Bomb said: I bet you once called Geoff & Wentz unicorns... Geoff & Wentz? Wasn't that a men's store in Rochester? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: He has led the skins to 2 playoff appearances and they were not very good teams. This year he had no WR and they were setting him up to fail since they didn't want to pay him. 1 actually. RGIII started 14 of 16 in 2012. They have only made it once in the Cousins era - 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: 1 actually. RGIII started 14 of 16 in 2012. They have only made it once in the Cousins era - 2015. My bad I thought they did it twice. But he has made them competitive.. but again I don't know what style O your HC wants he may or may not fill the need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Finish the season 3-0, make the playoffs and you'll get my attention. Dennison just doesn't have a clue what to call around TT. I still want to draft a QB in April and keep Peterman. We'll see what pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Alex Smith is the other option and he's at best a lateral move from Taylor. He is a round peg for the dink and dunk hole though. And he's spent a lot of time under Reid, who is clearly respected by McD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: You do know he. Fought a terrible skins team to 2 playoff runs right? They stripped him of lol his receivers this year and he still did pretty good. If by terrible you mean having Jordan Reed, DeSean Jackson and Pierre Garcon as weapons then I guess you are right... The man's record while starting for the Redkins is 24-29-1. You can sit around and say that's a team stat, but with how important QBs are in the NFL today there is no way a team with a good QB should be that bad unless their defense is historically bad(see New Orelans), which it is not. He has had 1 winning season...at 9-7 in which they won a weak division. There is no second playof run he led them on. And I wouldn't call finishing 9-7 leading them on a playoff run. Derek Carr last year led the Raiders on a playoff run finishing 12-4---that's leading a team on a playoff run...I mean how hard is when the rest of the division finishes 7-9, 6-10 and 4-12? And 9-7 is the best you could get to?? My God, I wish the Bills played in a division like that. He is Phillip Rivers 2.0...huge stats that don't translate into wins for whatever reason. The Bills with a rotating door at QB before Taylor , including the likes of Thad Lewis, Jeff Tuel, EJ Manuel, and Kyle Orton have gone 27-27 in the same timeframe. There is no way on earth a team with that cast of QBs should have a better record than a team with Cousins at QB---if he is a franchise QB he should be making up for some of the deficiencies on the team--like Brady...like Wilson...like Rodgers...but he doesn't. And let's not act like the Bills had some great defense under Ryan---they were terrible as well. Edited December 19, 2017 by matter2003 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Win out...get into the playoffs....maybe win a playoff game than consider for another year......but whatever happens no doubt they need to trade up and draft the QB! Otherwise the Bronco's will likely take him..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: Taylor isn't a franchise QB and while he can't throw bad receivers open like Brady and Rodgers and......well that's about it in the NFL right now........if you give Taylor good downfield receivers and a scheme that plays to his strengths I think he can lead a top 5 scoring offense despite a poor pass blocking OL.....and do it while not turn the ball over. Hard to envision where teaming that with a top defense wouldn't lead to SB contention. My guess is that they will let Taylor go, whiff on Cousins, draft the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft after an unsuccessful trade-up attempt..........stage a QB competition between rookie and Peterman and maybe a veteran stiff(I doubt they go the Glennon route and pay the $15M-$20M for one of the Vikings guys)......and then field a gawd-awful offense that turns the ball over at a high rate in 2018. Alex Smith is the other option and he's at best a lateral move from Taylor. Situation has some of the feel of the way Fitzpatrick release came down.........Taylor is better than Fitz.....but had the Bills kept Fitz for Marrone year one they almost certainly make the playoffs that year. That situation was handled very poorly. If the Bills were to keep Taylor, draft a QB in round 1 and add a couple legit deep threats I think that helps the present and the future. And is actually do-able. Objectively seems like the soundest option right now unless one believes that Cousins is coming to Buffalo which I don't. I've not quoted the first few lines of your response to save space - but broadly, as you know, my response to them is simply that I don't think Tyrod is as good as you think he is. I think you overvalue his lack of mistakes in turning it over and undervalue his mistakes in terms of ball placement on plays he makes and missing guys who are open on plays he doesn't. I don't think he will ever lead a team into consistent contention because even in a scheme that plays to his strengths he is a natural conservative thinker and is a "do just enough" Quarterback and he has never proven he can do "just enough" consistently. As for the final 2 paras.... I don't disagree with much of that. I don't think Tyrod has any intention of coming back in 2018 though. The Bills have to decide whether to pay him the money and force him to come and do his bridge job or trade/release him. I suspect that it is the latter option and at this stage I think it might be in everyone's best interests to part ways. I accept that might mean that you get worse QB play next season while your vet bridge plays and then your rookie gets in and makes mistakes but I think it is the short term pain that will have to be borne. I would not be against Taylor coming back... and prior to the benching I thought that was what should happen.... bring TT back and draft a guy - avoid the Fitz situation. I just feel like there might be too much water under the bridge at this stage. 12 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: My bad I thought they did it twice. But he has made them competitive.. but again I don't know what style O your HC wants he may or may not fill the need. He had a second winning record in 2016 but they were 8-7-1 and missed the playoffs. I was at the 1 as well.... it was Wembley vs the Bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, matter2003 said: If by terrible you mean having Jordan Reed, DeSean Jackson and Pierre Garcon as weapons then I guess you are right... The man's record while starting for the Redkins is 24-29-1. You can sit around and say that's a team stat, but with how important QBs are in the NFL today there is no way a team with a good QB should be that bad unless their defense is historically bad(see New Orelans), which it is not. He has had 1 winning season...at 9-7 in which they won a weak division. He is Phillip Rivers 2.0...huge stats that don't translate into wins for whatever reason. The Bills with a rotating door at QB before Taylor , including the likes of Thad Lewis, Jeff Tuel, EJ Manuel, and Kyle Orton have gone 27-27 in the same timeframe. There is no way on earth a team with that cast of QBs should have a better record than a team with Cousins at QB---if he is a franchise QB he should be making up for some of the deficiencies on the team--like Brady...like Wilson...like Rodgers...but he doesn't. And let's not act like the Bills had some great defense under Ryan---they were terrible as well. Much like the Bills in 2015 and 2016, Cousins and the Washington O had to battle to overcome mediocre at best defensive play. The difference has been that Washington's O was predicated on the Pass, vs Buffalo's on the Run. 2015 DVOA: Washington O - 12th Washington Pass O - 6th Washington Run O - 32nd Washington D - 21st Buffalo O - 9th Buffalo Pass O - 12th Buffalo Run O - 2nd Buffalo D - 24th 2016 DVOA: Washington O - 5th Washington Pass O - 5th Washington Run O - 4th Washington D - 25th Buffalo O - 10th Buffalo Pass O - 18th Buffalo Run O - 1st Buffalo D - 27th 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 At this point I'm just hoping Tyrod plays well enough to drive up his trade value, because realistically that's what we'll be doing with him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Tyrod's time is done here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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