If Taylor finishes season strong, do we build around him/Dennison?

[Stank_Nasty]

18 minutes ago, JPP said:

Win out and get into the playoffs....isnt that what we should all be rooting for instead of nit picking our QB.......what? think Peterman is gonna win out at the QB position....NO......play TT cause its our best chance....if they dont make the playoffs than continue the discussion on getting a top draft QB next year......which i would do regardless even if we retain TT........there are alot more issues on this offence than just the QB play far and large and if some cant see that than well.....pass the beer nuts.....

Amen dude!!! I said something similar to this earlier today! The bills have a very real shot at a playoff birth. And the only thing I see is a certain group of posters keeping quiet for a couple days just licking their chops at the prospects of bagging on the qb again now that we are a couple days removed from a real nice win. Nit picking half’s and certain plays in the name of being right about a guy they claimed we wouldn’t win another game with. 

 

ITS PATHETIC 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

you mention foolish. it may be foolish to you if he were not in a bills uniform next year but lets just say he isn't, would it then of been foolish of you to think they should keep him?

 

opinions, I guess when not in line with your own are foolish?

 

at this point, everything is hypothetical and mixed opinions. my thought is, I believe it will depend on the next two games (if he has a strong showing I believe he could remain and compete for the starting position next off season) in determining his future.

 

 

 

Good god man... if you're going to choose not to ignore me and are going to respond to things I say can you at least actually respond to what I'm saying?

 

Read the thread of that discussion, please.

 

Taylor might not be in Buffalo next year.  It's absolutely possible and I even acknowledge it in the post you quote. 

 

It's foolish to assume that it's a given that he's gone.  Yeah, that opinion is one that you're very much entitled to, but yes, I'm calling it a foolish one given the fact that there are still 2 games (hopefully more... ?) left to play and an entire offseason full of evaluating talent of NFL players who played for Buffalo and for other teams and also College players who we're looking at drafting and, well, a lot can change.

 

So, in exactly the same way that last year as the year ended and everyone said that once we benched Taylor at the end of the season, I said it was foolish for all of those saying it was obvious he would no longer play in a Bills uniform, I'm calling it a foolish statement to say that it's obvious that Taylor will no longer be in a Bills uniform after this year.  It's an emotionally premature prediction.

 

It might happen, and if it does, you'll be one of those guys coming to me saying how you were obviously right because "see! it happened."  I remember you telling me how Taylor wouldn't be with Buffalo next year.  At least you're changing your tune a little.

 

Don't worry, though, brah.  If Taylor's in a Bills uniform next year I won't seek you out calling you wrong 

 

 

 

 

 

but no guarantees I wouldn't do it if you kept trolling me 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Good god man... if you're going to choose not to ignore me and are going to respond to things I say can you at least actually respond to what I'm saying?

Don't worry, though, brah.  If Taylor's in a Bills uniform next year I won't seek you out calling you wrong  

 

 

lighten up francis, it was a simple question that you obviously had to blow up in to a little tirade. pardon me for asking.

 

where did I say he wouldn't be?

 

I said if , which still leaves question.

 

 

 

 

[JPP]

17 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Amen dude!!! I said something similar to this earlier today! The bills have a very real shot at a playoff birth. And the only thing I see is a certain group of posters keeping quiet for a couple days just licking their chops at the prospects of bagging on the qb again now that we are a couple days removed from a real nice win. Nit picking half’s and certain plays in the name of being right about a guy they claimed we wouldn’t win another game with. 

 

ITS PATHETIC 

Those arent fans IMO...they really are not......anyone who micor's and nit pik every single friggin play in a game is indeed pathetic...its the same group....they do it with the QB why not expend the same energy and do it with all the other players and plays that craps it out on offence...cause there is a whole lot more in that sense.....

[Maine-iac]

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Rex fired Roman for too complex of a game plan that was used in a simpler form for Lynn.   

A Lynn realized that same thing did not work with the Chargers and adapted.   

 

There is a pattern and Buffalo has to figure out how to fix the problem.  

 

I bet A Lynn is very happy.  Are we?  

They scored over 23 a game with Roman and almost 25 a game with Lynn.  The problem they needed to figure out was how to play defense.  Lynn has less wins and is scoring less with Rivers than he did last year with Tyrod but hey he's probably getting a lot of yards and 300 yard games are what its all about am I right?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

You don’t pay attention do you.  

 

 

Lynn discovered his mistake and fixed it.  Since then the Chargers went on a win streak.  

 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[Maine-iac]

7 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

 

The team scored 23 ppg w/o Taylor too.  

 

 

Please elaborate?  2014 they scored 21.4 and 2013 they scored 21.2 but please go on.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

lighten up francis, it was a simple question that you obviously had to blow up in to a little tirade. pardon me for asking.

 

where did I say he wouldn't be?

 

I said if , which still leaves question.

 

 

 

 

 

Less than a week ago...

agree. do not see him in a bills uni next season. don't see any type of trade for luck either. could either be cousins brought in and they pass on drafting a QB (which would piss many fans off) and keep peterman as a back up? or they do draft one and he sits behind the starter, who ever that may end up being?

 

anyone's guess at this point but I really see no future for taylor on this roster.

Edited December 21, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Since Hotrod's been here our winning percentage in games he started is .536.  .200 with everyone else.

 

Throw out all the good games and wins because he had a couple of bad games?  Really?

 

 

 

You don't throw out all the good games. You count em up and total them and you find there are more mediocre and bad ones. The good ones absolutely count. Unfortunately for Tyrod, so do all the rest.

 

And again, winning percentage is a team stat, not a QB stat. Anyone not getting that is ... well, not getting it. Pretending that a QB is either a winner or loser because a field goal kicker misses or makes a game-winner is flat-out clueless. If an RB fumbles five times does the QB who played well suck because the team lost? The whole idea is dumb.

 

You evaluate a QB based on how the QB plays. Period. And Tyrod has played inconsistent and slightly below average overall.

 

And more to the point, he hasn't played well from the pocket during the regime of a head coach who has said that the requirement for his QBs is that they have to play well from the pocket.

[xRUSHx]

8 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

How have the other QBs with these OCs fared in this department?

 

Hey, I prefer pocket passers and think it would be great if we had a really good one.  But thery're really hard to find.  I'm Just not willing to dump a guy we can win with to go with a rook for 3 years probably losing (based on percentages)  to find out if he's "The Guy".  

 

Unless something magical happens we won't be getting one of the top guys anyway.

 

How about we just try to win now for a change?

The got to win now is exactly what this team does over and over again in this longest playoffless loser streak.

 

Win now for a change?

It does not work, trying to win now makes the team refuse to build correctly. Throw whatever you can at other positions  with avoiding upgrading the QB and hope the not good enough QB has a miracle season. Sad part is not one of the not good enough QBs have that miracle. Overpay for not good enough QB to stay, Wash repeat. No miracle just fired coaches. Maybe the next staff can turn the not good enough QB into good enough. Groundhogs day at OBD with no end in sight.

 

You say good pocket passers are hard to find, sadly OBD doesn't even try to find one, they trade to get a WR and then trade the WR because the not good enough QB can get him the ball.

 

Sure bring him back maybe OC #4 can make not good enough, good enough. If not I am sure #5 will be the one.

 

One we can win with now? Win what exactly considering it was the D and RB that got wins this year not the not good enough QB.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by xRUSHx

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Less than a week ago...

agree. do not see him in a bills uni next season. don't see any type of trade for luck either. could either be cousins brought in and they pass on drafting a QB (which would piss many fans off) and keep peterman as a back up? or they do draft one and he sits behind the starter, who ever that may end up being?

 

anyone's guess at this point but I really see no future for taylor on this roster.

 

can not disagree with that opinion. thanks for taking the time to point that out. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

DaBills called the Cousins trade before DD?  

 

Now it makes sense.  

 

Winky thing 

[Big Gun]

3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

DaBills called the Cousins trade before DD?  

 

Now it makes sense.  

 

Winky thing 

with a beer...

 

[JerseyBills]

www.profootballfocus.com/news/nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-grade-after-week-15?utm_content=buffer0574c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl

 

11th- Tyrod Taylor

Leader, well respected by teammates and a winner

16 hours ago, Luka said:

Tyrod is below average. He's proven it time and time again. There are bigger reaches in this thread than drafting EJ Manuel in the first round.

21-19 is below average? For a team that had 1 winning season since 04 nonetheless! With a below average defense as well. He's been average with potential to be above average.

Or people prefer 300 yards a game with 2-3 times more turnovers? 

I don't think Cousins has us at 8-6. All I care about is wins personally. Don't care how we get them , just want a winning culture. Taylor needs the right support on O and D but I believe he can provide a winning culture, unfortunately it might be with a different team

Edited December 21, 2017 by JerseyBills

[DrDawkinstein]

IMO, no.

 

If Taylor finishes strong, you use that hype to demand a 2nd for him instead of a 3rd.

 

And at the same time, or sooner, you fire Dennison, Castillo, and Culley (if not the entire O staff), and replace them with a QB-centric staff.

 

And then you do whatever it takes to move up and get "our guy" in the draft.

 

I would also bring in Hoyer (if he would come).

 

That's what I would do if it were all up to me.

Edited December 21, 2017 by DrDawkinstein

[MAJBobby]

23 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

Like he didn't execute that beautiful pass that Jones dropped?

One pass makes a career dor the die hard Taylor fans. 

[reddogblitz]

11 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

And again, winning percentage is a team stat, not a QB stat. Anyone not getting that is ... well, not getting it. Pretending that a QB is either a winner or loser because a field goal kicker misses or makes a game-winner is flat-out clueless. If an RB fumbles five times does the QB who played well suck because the team lost? The whole idea is dumb.

 

You evaluate a QB based on how the QB plays. Period. And Tyrod has played inconsistent and slightly below average overall.

 

And more to the point, he hasn't played well from the pocket during the regime of a head coach who has said that the requirement for his QBs is that they have to play well from the pocket.

 

On the bolded: Yes and No.  Some QBs due to their skill and leadership can lift the play of the entire team.  And, due to their late game clutchness can get more wins.  Some are good in the clutch and others are not.

 

For an example we have to look no further than our own Bills.  Between 1998 and 2001 the Bills had 2 QBs that played.  With Rob Johnson starting, the Bills were 9-17.  With Doug Flutie starting, the bills were 21-9.  Same team.  Same WRs.  Same OC.  Same Offensive line.  One QB could win with that team and one could not.

 

10 hours ago, xRUSHx said:

The got to win now is exactly what this team does over and over again in this longest playoffless loser streak.

 

Win now for a change?

It does not work, trying to win now makes the team refuse to build correctly. Throw whatever you can at other positions  with avoiding upgrading the QB and hope the not good enough QB has a miracle season. Sad part is not one of the not good enough QBs have that miracle. Overpay for not good enough QB to stay, Wash repeat. No miracle just fired coaches. Maybe the next staff can turn the not good enough QB into good enough. Groundhogs day at OBD with no end in sight.

 

You say good pocket passers are hard to find, sadly OBD doesn't even try to find one, they trade to get a WR and then trade the WR because the not good enough QB can get him the ball.

 

Sure bring him back maybe OC #4 can make not good enough, good enough. If not I am sure #5 will be the one.

 

One we can win with now? Win what exactly considering it was the D and RB that got wins this year not the not good enough QB.

 

 

 

Bills obviously screwed up.  Should have hired xRUSHx for GM.  He knows how to properly build a team.  Beane obviously does not.

 

I agree we have not drafted many QBs, but I think saying we've done nothing is a little harsh.  We need to try harder.  But at the same time, don't dump a guy that you can win with for a possible maybe.  Even if it's not the proper way to build a team IMHO.

 

Dumping everyone and drafting a rookie QB and putting him in and starting over is far from a fool proof plan.

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

www.profootballfocus.com/news/nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-grade-after-week-15?utm_content=buffer0574c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl

 

11th- Tyrod Taylor

Leader, well respected by teammates and a winner

21-19 is below average? For a team that had 1 winning season since 04 nonetheless! With a below average defense as well. He's been average with potential to be above average.

Or people prefer 300 yards a game with 2-3 times more turnovers? 

I don't think Cousins has us at 8-6. All I care about is wins personally. Don't care how we get them , just want a winning culture. Taylor needs the right support on O and D but I believe he can provide a winning culture, unfortunately it might be with a different team

 

I agree.  Actually the Bills are 22-19 with Hotrod.  Some of the QB win sites don't count the first game as a Hotrod start because actually Matt Cassell took the first snap.  Hotrod was on the field and took the rest.  Not counting that is silly IMHO.

 

Everyone thinks Hotrod is a good QB except Bills fans. 

 

As I recall, some Bills fans wanted Frank to start over Jim Kelly too.

Edited December 21, 2017 by reddogblitz

[xRUSHx]

31 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

On the bolded: Yes and No.  Some QBs due to their skill and leadership can lift the play of the entire team.  And, due to their late game clutchness can get more wins.  Some are good in the clutch and others are not.

 

For an example we have to look no further than our own Bills.  Between 1998 and 2001 the Bills had 2 QBs that played.  With Rob Johnson starting, the Bills were 9-17.  With Doug Flutie starting, the bills were 21-9.  Same team.  Same WRs.  Same OC.  Same Offensive line.  One QB could win with that team and one could not.

 

 

Bills obviously screwed up.  Should have hired xRUSHx for GM.  He knows how to properly build a team.  Beane obviously does not.

 

I agree we have not drafted many QBs, but I think saying we've done nothing is a little harsh.  We need to try harder.  But at the same time, don't dump a guy that you can win with for a possible maybe.  Even if it's not the proper way to build a team IMHO.

 

Dumping everyone and drafting a rookie QB and putting him in and starting over is far from a fool proof plan.

 

I agree.  Actually the Bills are 22-19 with JHotrod.  Some of the QB win sites don't count the first game as a Hotrod start because actually Matt Cassell took the first snap.  Hotrod was on the field and took the rest.  Not counting that is sill IMHO.

 

Everyone thinks Hotrod is a good QB except Bills fans. 

 

As I recall, some Bills fans wanted Frank to start over Jim Kelly too.

So another words IYO we should all be ok with not  good enough because this not good enough is the best not good enough we have had in a long time. 

 

Maybe some season we won't hear the other team laughing about making our QB be a QB, not this year but hey he is the best not good enough, he is our not good enough, be proud, embrace the laughing.

 

Bring the not good enough back because 3 years strong of not good enough is not enough, go Bills

Edited December 21, 2017 by xRUSHx

[BADOLBILZ]

19 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I did. I watched that game in Kansas City where Sammy was ruining the defensive backs all first half and then as the game got tight Tyrod came out 2nd half and threw it his way once. 

 

Too much was made of that.    Chiefs were giving Sammy extra attention in second half so Tyrod threw to the open receivers Woods and Hogan.   Instead they had a couple third down drops.  Killed drives.  Chiefs controlled the football in second half.   Bad defense and some poor game management from Rex were the bigger issue.   I'd like to have seen more throws to Watkins as well but if he throws the ball to the safety trying to force it in to Watkins then the criticism is that he should have thrown to the guys open underneath.   Woods and Hogan were open they just didn't make plays. 

[transplantbillsfan]

11 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

You don't throw out all the good games. You count em up and total them and you find there are more mediocre and bad ones. The good ones absolutely count. Unfortunately for Tyrod, so do all the rest.

 

And again, winning percentage is a team stat, not a QB stat. Anyone not getting that is ... well, not getting it. Pretending that a QB is either a winner or loser because a field goal kicker misses or makes a game-winner is flat-out clueless. If an RB fumbles five times does the QB who played well suck because the team lost? The whole idea is dumb.

 

You evaluate a QB based on how the QB plays. Period. And Tyrod has played inconsistent and slightly below average overall.

 

And more to the point, he hasn't played well from the pocket during the regime of a head coach who has said that the requirement for his QBs is that they have to play well from the pocket.

 

Do all the mediocre and bad games count for other QBs, too? Or do they only count for Tyrod?

 

From 2015-2017, Tyrod has 11 games with a Passer Rating below 80. Below 80 would probably be mediocre to bad, right?

 

From 2015-2017, Phillip Rivers has 11 games with a Passer Rating below 80.

 

Don't like Passer Rating?

 

From 2015-2017, Tyrod has 11 games with a Total Qbr below 50, which ESPN claims as the benchmark for exactly "average" QB play.

 

From 2015-2017, Phillip Rivers has 20 games with a Passer Rating below 50.

 

 

 

And before you say it's just a randomly bad 3 year stretch for P Riv, from 2010-2012 he had 14 games with a Passer Rating below 80.

 

 

 

Cue the "how DARE you compare Tyrod to Rivers" posts in 

 

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