If Taylor finishes season strong, do we build around him/Dennison?

[BigDingus]

38 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Almost three full seasons.  We've seen what Tyrod Taylor is about.

 

Now, I'm certainly not as "down" on Taylor as some Bills fans.  When you consider the entire package (leadership qualities, playmaking ability with his legs, ability to avoid turnovers), I believe he's better than a good chunk of NFL starters.  If we managed to put together an elite defense, compliment him with a strong O-Line and running game - I think we could win 10-11 games and maybe even win a playoff game.

 

But here is the problem.

I don't believe Taylor can ever lead us to a championship (which should be the ultimate goal).  The regular season is a different animal from the playoffs.  At some point during a playoff run, teams will find a way to make him win with his arm.  We can't rely on Shady McCoy and keeping the opponent under 17 points for 3-4 weeks against the NFL's best.  There is a reason that teams without a strong franchise QB only win a Super Bowl every 15-20 years. 

 

 

 

The real problem is teams find a way to make him do that during the regular season too, and that's why we fall apart against competent teams. If our defense isn't gifting us tons of turnovers, Taylor does nothing. 

Even worse, if we every fall behind (which inevitably happens in may games, especially playoff games) by even a point late in the game, Taylor has shown he CANNOT respond accordingly & win. In fact, he's probably the absolute last QB I'd ever want if we need a score in the 4th Qtr to come from behind. His record in that area is abysmal.

Nursing a lead and hoping the defense doesn't give up any points for most of the game is not a good formula for success. In games where our defense has been outright dominant (like in the Chiefs game), we should be up by multiple scores & just putting people away. Unfortunately, our offense can't do that which leads to people hanging around the entire game.

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 hours ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

Goodwin is much better off with Beathard, Hoyer, and Garropolo.   

 

Hogan is much better off with Brady 

 

Woods and Watkins are better off with Goff 

 

Marquise Grey is better off with Keenum.  

 

I don’t think you’re right.

As a tandem they're doing exactly what they've done every year they've been together, actually.

[BigDingus]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

As a tandem they're doing exactly what they've done every year they've been together, actually.

 

Woods is doing better, as is Goodwin, but Watkins is performing far below even his averages (which was already disappointing considering where he was picked in the draft).

For a former high 1st round pick, 36 receptions for 563 yards & 7 TD's isn't really that good by any means. He's being blown away by a 3rd round rookie...Cooper Kupp, who has 58 receptions for 804 yards & 4 TDs. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

Woods is doing better, as is Goodwin, but Watkins is performing far below even his averages (which was already disappointing considering where he was picked in the draft).

For a former high 1st round pick, 36 receptions for 563 yards & 7 TD's isn't really that good by any means. He's being blown away by a 3rd round rookie...Cooper Kupp, who has 58 receptions for 804 yards & 4 TDs. 

I agree, but I don't think it's unfair to assess them as a tandem. When both are on the field only one can get the ball on any given play.

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Woods is doing better, as is Goodwin, but Watkins is performing far below even his averages (which was already disappointing considering where he was picked in the draft).

For a former high 1st round pick, 36 receptions for 563 yards & 7 TD's isn't really that good by any means. He's being blown away by a 3rd round rookie...Cooper Kupp, who has 58 receptions for 804 yards & 4 TDs. 

Goodwin...I don't know what's going on with him. He's outpaced his entire 4 year career yardage in Buffalo in 14 games in San Francisco, and that's with Beathard, Hoyer, and Garoppolo throwing him the ball. 30th in targets yet 14th in yards? 4th in yards/reception? 17th in yards per game and 60th in catches per game?

 

His numbers are just absolutely bonkers.

[26TrapDraw]

On 12/19/2017 at 12:12 AM, LittleJoeCartwright said:

 

If they (TT and Rico) consistently produced performances like Sunday's first half, it would be worth giving them more time.  Unfortunately we've seen too many like the 2nd half with little reason to believe it would improve.

This times 1,000,000. The first half was very nice and they looked like they were clicking on all cylinders. The issue is we have too many moments like the second half where they would hand the ball off so predictably 3 times and punt. This offense has no imagination to begin with and then you factor in Tyrod's inability to throw a receiver open and then he takes off after his first read. I can't understand for the life of me why each receiver/TE or RB that comes out of the backfield doesn't have a route they go to as soon as Tyrod ( and it's not an if but a when) leaves the pocket. The entire offense should be designed for this. He has excellent escapability and should be carving defenses up before he crosses the line of scrimmage. He doesn't and they don't and that's why this offense is garbage and putrid. The NFL is such a copycat league and it is tried and True that Pocket passers ( with good enough protection ) are productive period end of Story. I can't figure out why Our O coordinator doesn't throw out everything else and stick with what we know works. Power runs with McCoy, TE Drags and screens and High percentage outlet passes to rb's. OH WAIT WE ALREADY DO THAT!!! but that is it no shots down field .That's why defenses can adjust easily and That's why this O sux.

Edited December 20, 2017 by BeefCurtns

[BigDingus]

14 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I agree, but I don't think it's unfair to assess them as a tandem. When both are on the field only one can get the ball on any given play.

 

But Woods isn't somehow taking away 400/500 yards off of Watkins. He only has 49 yards more this year than his best season with the Bills, so that doesn't explain why Watkins dropped off the map so much. 

Also, they should all benefit from a QB that throws downfield more, an offense that passes more (although they do run the ball well too), and the fact that one another take pressure off each other. Cooper Kupp is their #1 target with Woods #2 and even Todd Gurley has 54 receptions & 630 yards compared to Watkins 36 & 563 yards. 

Think about the other receivers drafted after him in that class... You think if you threw Mike Evans or Odell Beckham, or Brandin Cooks on that team that Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods would take away receptions from them? Heck no. Usually if you pair 2 great receiving threats together they all get their share because they take pressure away from each other.

 

Heck, before this season playing with Tyrod Jordan Matthews never had a season below 800 yards. I just don't think Watkins is really ever going to approach what people thought he'd be, regardless of who he's playing with or who's throwing him the ball.

[Teddy KGB]

46 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Goodwin...I don't know what's going on with him. He's outpaced his entire 4 year career yardage in Buffalo in 14 games in San Francisco, and that's with Beathard, Hoyer, and Garoppolo throwing him the ball. 30th in targets yet 14th in yards? 4th in yards/reception? 17th in yards per game and 60th in catches per game?

 

His numbers are just absolutely bonkers.

 

 

Whaley gem !!    

37 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

But Woods isn't somehow taking away 400/500 yards off of Watkins. He only has 49 yards more this year than his best season with the Bills, so that doesn't explain why Watkins dropped off the map so much. 

Also, they should all benefit from a QB that throws downfield more, an offense that passes more (although they do run the ball well too), and the fact that one another take pressure off each other. Cooper Kupp is their #1 target with Woods #2 and even Todd Gurley has 54 receptions & 630 yards compared to Watkins 36 & 563 yards. 

Think about the other receivers drafted after him in that class... You think if you threw Mike Evans or Odell Beckham, or Brandin Cooks on that team that Cooper Kupp or Robert Woods would take away receptions from them? Heck no. Usually if you pair 2 great receiving threats together they all get their share because they take pressure away from each other.

 

Heck, before this season playing with Tyrod Jordan Matthews never had a season below 800 yards. I just don't think Watkins is really ever going to approach what people thought he'd be, regardless of who he's playing with or who's throwing him the ball.

 

Theres no problems with Sammy, Kupp, Woods or Gurley.     They are just winning games.             

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not sure he will.  I see no evidence of that.  He is a do just enough, play conservative Quarterback.  You could give him AJ Green and Julio Jones on the outside and Tyrod would still not throw it until they were obviously wide open for fear of making a mistake.... and games would still consistently be within 7 points either way in the last 4 minutes of a game.  I think Tyrod could get you to 10 wins.... he might even have a Case Keenum type season in him where he goes off and gets you 12.... but Tyrod's seasons will normally be in that 7-9 range whatever and whoever you have around him.  

 

Well this is just sheer and utter crap.  You did watch him in 2015 and 2016 when he had Sammy on the field, healthy, right? 

 

[Socal-805]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 8:14 PM, JerseyBills said:

I have been a big time Taylor supporter, my reasoning has always been that he is the best option available to Buffalo. If Taylor has 2 (hopefully much more in playoffs) quality games after a quality start last week do we use our draft capital to build around him ? 

 

I personally would love to build around him. He's now 21-19 with mostly below average defense. Build on that D, add a cpl weapons on O and I think he can get 10 wins on a regular basis, but I do understand he needs to show consistentcy. If he closes out the year with 3 or more quality starts in a row, I think he must stay ,along with Dennison.

 

Unless of course our staff sees a can't miss QB prospect, I'd rather draft a 2nd -3rd rounder and keep a guy that doesn't turn the ball over and if game planned right can use his feet as well as his arm to get wins...This week will show me alot about Taylor/Dennison,on the road , biggest game in a decade , this could keep both of them in Bills gear for 2018 imo... 

 

 

 

 

NO....

 

 

[Putin]

This seems like sooo long ago and I wonder if live to see it again , when  WR  Eric Molds &  P Price both had over a 1000 yards and Molds avg per reception was over 20 yards , man that was fun to watch  !

[Oregonbillsfan]

I say if Taylor is stellar and we win the Superbowl because of his excellent play.  Then YES otherwise NO!!!

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

Cooper Kupp, who has 58 receptions for 804 yards & 4 TDs. 

 

We should have drafted Cooper Kupp instead of trading up for Zay "Drop Zone" Jones.

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Goodwin...I don't know what's going on with him. He's outpaced his entire 4 year career yardage in Buffalo in 14 games in San Francisco, and that's with Beathard, Hoyer, and Garoppolo throwing him the ball. 30th in targets yet 14th in yards? 4th in yards/reception? 17th in yards per game and 60th in catches per game?

 

His numbers are just absolutely bonkers.

 

My neighbor down the street's son works for the 49ers doing web site authoring and some of their web site talk shows.

 

He told me before the season that the 49ers coaches were super jacked about getting Goodwin and had big plans for him.  I warned him that he might not be on the field very much.  Boy, was I wrong.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Transplant, if you havnt already seen the writing on the wall then you just have your blinders up. Unless he sneaks them into the playoffs there is no way they are bringing him back. 

 

Gonna disagree.

 

I'm not saying he will be back.  But it's foolish to say he's gone given the fact that this isn't just a matter of picking up an option or not.  It involves either:

 

-cutting him, taking a Cap hit and then finding a vet QB you're going to have to pay probably $2-$5 million in order to come in as a vet QB... at that point when you factor in the Cap hit we took for cutting Taylor along with the money to pay the vet QB, there's really not a ton of financial incentive to do it.

 

OR

 

-trading him.  But from what I understand about his contract I think we would have to trade him before the 4th day of the new league year, otherwise we have to give him a $6 million bonus, I believe.  We won't get that bonus back, even if we trade him on draft day in part of a package deal to trade up.

 

 

So I think this assumption Taylor is just automatically gone is foolish.  And people want to point out the relationship and how both sides are going to want a clean split.  I'm not in the locker room with these guys so I have no clue how the relationship actually is.  But McBeane don't really have to take Taylor's feelings into consideration because it's very simple: he's under contract.  And one thing I think about anyone would give Taylor is that he's a professional and would come back and be the ultimate team player, even if he's not overly happy, which might be an overblown assumption, anyway.

[Luka]

We're in the hunt for a wildcard spot with two games left with piss poor QB play. Imagine where we'd be with even average QB play.

[reddogblitz]

Transplant's right.  COATs (Culture Of Anti Tyrod) may want to see him gone really bad, but it's far from a foregone conclusion he will be.

 

Also, be careful what you ask for.  We could do a LOT worse, and have many, many,many times.

[Luka]

4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

Transplant's right.  COATs (Culture Of Anti Tyrod) may want to see him gone really bad, but it's far from a foregone conclusion he will be.

 

Also, be careful what you ask for.  We could do a LOT worse, and have many, many,many times.

 

The Peterman/Webb combo in a game where you couldn't see the ball it was snowing so hard, wasn't the worst passing performance of the season. That's all you have to know about our QB situation.

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Well this is just sheer and utter crap.  You did watch him in 2015 and 2016 when he had Sammy on the field, healthy, right? 

 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/13896976/sammy-watkins-tells-buffalo-bills-making-look-bad-lack-targets

 

 

"Everybody looks at you getting zero catches, zero yards, but when you look on film, 90 percent of the time you're open," Watkins told the newspaper. "I understand that these guys are young and they need some time to trust me. Once we get that trust, it'll be different."

Added Watkins: "That's what I get mad at: when I don't get looked at. I can look at film, and his eyes go straight that way and I'm not getting looked at, at all. That's when I get frustrated. When I have one-on-one coverage, go to me. I don't care what's going on over there. I don't care if he's open. When I get one-on-one, just target me."

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Air it out Fitzy

[BuffaloBill]

9 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

Transplant's right.  COATs (Culture Of Anti Tyrod) may want to see him gone really bad, but it's far from a foregone conclusion he will be.

 

Also, be careful what you ask for.  We could do a LOT worse, and have many, many,many times.

 

 

So you premise is that because we do not have high probability that we will get better we should stay mediocre because of sub-par play and abilities out of the QB position?  That is highly competitive of you.  Talk about settling.  I say keep drafting QB’s until you get one that you can truly build around because he is a good QB.  Enough with this stupid notion of “only if.”  Only if Tyrod had better WR’s (he did and they were not productive - for those of you who claim Woods and Watkins were the right combination).  Only if he had better protection (again TT has had as good if not better protection than most in the NFL - the line can’t help the fact that Tyrod has to be back there for an hour as he waits for his WR’s to get open “enough”), Only if the receivers caught everything that was somehow near their body even if they have to be an Olympic gymnast to be in position for the catch.

 

Tyrod is slow to make decisions and inaccurate with the ball.  Two qualities that have been on full display in his time in Buffalo.

[Maine-iac]

26 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/13896976/sammy-watkins-tells-buffalo-bills-making-look-bad-lack-targets

 

 

"Everybody looks at you getting zero catches, zero yards, but when you look on film, 90 percent of the time you're open," Watkins told the newspaper. "I understand that these guys are young and they need some time to trust me. Once we get that trust, it'll be different."

Added Watkins: "That's what I get mad at: when I don't get looked at. I can look at film, and his eyes go straight that way and I'm not getting looked at, at all. That's when I get frustrated. When I have one-on-one coverage, go to me. I don't care what's going on over there. I don't care if he's open. When I get one-on-one, just target me."

 

 

 

Says the guy who had 60 catches and 1,047 yds and 9tds in 13 games with Taylor and has 36 catches 563yds and 7TD's in 14 games this year.  I'd definately use that guy's statement.  Woods and Sammy went to a team with a top notch coordinator and a good QB and still are getting beat by a rookie.  Woods might not even beat his season best in catches and Watkins is miles behind any best he's ever had.  The idea that Taylor was so bad that he was ever holding back WR's is insane. 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Maine-iac